General Discussion (dev branch)

[blackjacktom 10]

Shouldn't the miniguns have penetration? That jet video somebody showed very powerful rounds that appears to penetrate the building rather than destroy it. We should not be getting into the nerf and buff crap. What we should be doing is requesting better penetration and more realistic damage to structures and vehicles. Miniguns are powerful, and we should never start modifying them because there too op or something stupid like that.

I'm pretty sure they all ready penetrate, the same amount as other 7.62 rounds. Cannon rounds also penetrate they just seem to have the explosion effect at the point of penetration as well as where the round hits afterwards.

If the splash damage on miniguns is supposed to simulate multiple rounds being fired then each shot should consume more ammo.

[progamer 14]

I'm pretty sure they all ready penetrate, the same amount as other 7.62 rounds. Cannon rounds also penetrate they just seem to have the explosion effect at the point of penetration as well as where the round hits afterwards.

If the splash damage on miniguns is supposed to simulate multiple rounds being fired then each shot should consume more ammo.

What needs to happen is fixing the framerate affecting firerate issue or using Arma 2 style. You have to first understand the type of ammunition being used and the weapon that is firing them and the objects they are being fired at. Rather than arguing over artificially modifying the weapon, we should focus on making it more realistic. You also have to Remeber the damage model for buildings is unchanged from Arma 2. Which should not have an affect on what a weapon can do to other targets.

[nimrod123 11]

What needs to happen is fixing the framerate affecting firerate issue or using Arma 2 style. You have to first understand the type of ammunition being used and the weapon that is firing them and the objects they are being fired at. Rather than arguing over artificially modifying the weapon, we should focus on making it more realistic. You also have to Remeber the damage model for buildings is unchanged from Arma 2. Which should not have an affect on what a weapon can do to other targets.

well that fix only requires a new engine, so, yeah nah

[V-zwo_Null 10]

I did some Tests:

Littlebird 7,62:

I needed around 250 rounds to make the "House, large,white" at Stratis 0284 0607 fully collapse!

Orca 6,5mm:

emptied 2000 rounds, only a corner of the house collapsed

Zaphir (7,62):

1900 rounds until one corner of the building collapsed.

Shooting with the littlebird so that the bullets hit the ground half a meter away from a rifleman kills that rifleman->Littlebird ammo has splash damage

Due to the new very much improved (and awesome) bullet penetration, each bullet hits the House multiple times as it passes through the outer wall and hits the inner walls.

Ideas to fix this:

Remove splash damage from the ammo let the guns converge instead to make hiting targets easier+increase RoF.

Here are the data from this Ammo:

Ammo: B_762x51_Minigun_Tracer_Red

hit = 12;

indirectHit = 6;

indirectHitRange = 1;

Wow 1 Meter splashradius.

[Kydoimos 916]

Heya - since the latest update I'm having issues with the setobjecttexture command for units on multiplayer. Basically I was using this script:

_unit = _this select 0;

_texture = _this select 1;

_unit setObjectTexture _texture;

And calling it with this in the init.sqf:

[[s1,0,"Images\SAS_Uniform_01.paa"],"fnc_objecttexture",nil,false] spawn BIS_fnc_MP;

What gives? What's changed? And how can I fix it? Now, in single player, units are appearing in their underwear. Things were working fine a week ago!

[heruon 1]

Shouldn't the miniguns have penetration? That jet video somebody showed very powerful rounds that appears to penetrate the building rather than destroy it. We should not be getting into the nerf and buff crap. What we should be doing is requesting better penetration and more realistic damage to structures and vehicles. Miniguns are powerful, and we should never start modifying them because there too op or something stupid like that.

I think miniguns should be powerful.. in the right way. Imo splash damage is not the right way to go and it's not about nerfing, buffing or balancing - it's about realism. And 7.62 bullets all of a sudden dealing splash damage, but only when fired from one particular weapon, is imo just strange. Miniguns need a higher rate of fire.

What needs to happen is fixing the framerate affecting firerate issue or using Arma 2 style.

Yeah, this really needs to change. Ticket about it in my sig. But as stated in the ticket, I understand this is probably not doable in the current engine.

[Tonci87 163]

Here are the data from this Ammo:

Ammo: B_762x51_Minigun_Tracer_Red

hit = 12;

indirectHit = 6;

indirectHitRange = 1;

Wow 1 Meter splashradius.

Yeah that is what I discovered. Minigun bullets suddenly became HE rounds.

And now imagine what happens if such a bullet hits a House:

Hits the outer Wall->Deals x ammount of damage

passes through that wall

hits an inner wall->Deals x ammount of damage

If the hit is near another wall, or near the floor/ceilling->Those walls take splash damage too although they haven´t been hit by the bullet.

Every bullet does an absurd ammount of damage to the house.

@BIS

remove the splash damage

let the guns converge or increase rate of fire

[Victim9l3 11]

I found a couple interesting things.

Helicopters can fly through tall grass: http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o726/Victim913/arma32013-09-2904-59-54-24_zps3eca880a.png

This when one of my Panthers went missing, I found it doing this, movin around in a circle: http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o726/Victim913/arma32013-09-2812-13-44-67_zpsafc6049d.png

[SaOk 112]

Multiplayer (both local server and server.exe) crashes for me (with PhysX3_x86.dll faulty address) mostly only 5minutes after startin my custom mission that works in editor without problems. Any temporal cures found yet for that? :) (sent dumps to dwarden)

[blackjacktom 10]

Splash damage is meant to simulate more rounds being fired. I would of course prefer having a higher RoF but if that isn't possible then I think, while obviously not yet fully implemented (burst value needed etc.), that splash damage is fine.

[Gekkibi 11]

Splash damage is meant to simulate more rounds being fired. I would of course prefer having a higher RoF but if that isn't possible then I think, while obviously not yet fully implemented (burst value needed etc.), that splash damage is fine.

Have you tried shooting at the buildings? They collapse after couple of seconds. Compare that to other 7.62 weapons in the game. Even 600 rounds from Zafir will do nothing to the buildings. Splash damage is not the right way to fix this.

[CaptainObvious 95]

What, or whose FPS is the RoF limited to?

[Degman 73]

I did some Tests:

Littlebird 7,62:

I needed around 250 rounds to make the "House, large,white" at Stratis 0284 0607 fully collapse!

Orca 6,5mm:

emptied 2000 rounds, only a corner of the house collapsed

Zaphir (7,62):

1900 rounds until one corner of the building collapsed.

Shooting with the littlebird so that the bullets hit the ground half a meter away from a rifleman kills that rifleman->Littlebird ammo has splash damage

Due to the new very much improved (and awesome) bullet penetration, each bullet hits the House multiple times as it passes through the outer wall and hits the inner walls.

Ideas to fix this:

Remove splash damage from the ammo let the guns converge instead to make hiting targets easier+increase RoF.

They should make some of structures be bulletproof on some types of ammo. Same for vehicles and vests.

[blackjacktom 10]

Have you tried shooting at the buildings? They collapse after couple of seconds. Compare that to other 7.62 weapons in the game. Even 600 rounds from Zafir will do nothing to the buildings. Splash damage is not the right way to fix this.

Sounds like its a problem with how the damage is applied to buildings, like Tonci87 said. Having miniguns actually be useful against infantry is pretty important and I don't see another way apart from using the burst value, which you think they would have used if possible.

They should make some of structures be bulletproof on some types of ammo. Same for vehicles and vests.

Agreed. Keep the penetration though.

[msy 22]

There is already a mod for that and as Say a Dev in a topic about lights, there is never official work on glasses on arma 3. Maybe on 4.

For me, we don't need glasses, i don't have blind effect in comparaison of the reality, actually we have blind only on a long range distance, not a middle. But it's the first version of lightshafts, we have time to see the improvments :)

Why did you first say "for me" then "we", who do you stand for? If a MOD can do this why not demand an official upgrade?

[accapella 1]

What, or whose FPS is the RoF limited to?

servers fps in mp and players fps in sp.

this isnt 2001 when the games actual speed is influenced by fps.

[marcai 1]

Just to play devils advocate here, I don't imagine the idea of splash damage from minigun rounds is that unrealistic. A high calibre round smashing into the ground/ building near you is going to kick up shrapnel and debris after all. I have no military experience, so I could be stupendously wrong, but I think that merely looking at the milimeter-precise damage of a heavy gun is missing the point of such weapons in the theatre of war. Perhaps reduce the splash damage amount that is caused, but splash damage makes perfect sense to me. A heavy gun blowing chunks out of the world around a meter you shouldn't leave you on full health unless you're insanely lucky, surely?

That said, I'm very much an advocate of the game spawning multiple bullets, even if it means the weapons in question having four game-logic barrels each to kick out more shots. Realism and the whole 'natural balance' gig that was mentioned both at E3 and livestream videos. Without splash damage or extra barrels, the miniguns are (in a gameplay sense) pretty terrible vs most targets due to being forward-mounted, in my opinion. The risk/reward of using them was incredibly low prior to the splash damage being added, apart from in last-ditch situations where your missiles have run out. Having them as a viable method of engagement is a pretty big deal for the use of the 'Bird, Orca or Ghost Hawk to actually affect the battlefield beyond being transports.

[Tonci87 163]

Well they could also simply raise the dispersion just a little bit. That would make it easier to hit infantry too.

And I repeat: Such a large splash damage radius for 7,62 rounds is an extremely unrealistic and very lazy attempt to increase the effectiveness of the minigun.

[SaOk 112]

With crashing MP, I have now twice lost sound from left side of headphones 1-5min before the game to crash. Everytime after that the sounds work normally in windows so its unlikely the headphones are broken.

[pils 49]

Just to play devils advocate here, I don't imagine the idea of splash damage from minigun rounds is that unrealistic. A high calibre round smashing into the ground/ building near you is going to kick up shrapnel and debris after all. I have no military experience, so I could be stupendously wrong, but I think that merely looking at the milimeter-precise damage of a heavy gun is missing the point of such weapons in the theatre of war. Perhaps reduce the splash damage amount that is caused, but splash damage makes perfect sense to me. A heavy gun blowing chunks out of the world around a meter you shouldn't leave you on full health unless you're insanely lucky, surely?

That is actually true for large caliber rounds like the 30mm. But as far as I know not for the 6,5 mm and 7,62 mm Gatlings. So imo the splash damage for the small caliber Gatlings is not realistic and I don't like it. I would like to have an increased real or at least simulated rate of fire.

[chortles 263]

I would like to have an increased real or at least simulated rate of fire.

Two words: engine limitation. All of the proposed solutions besides this are workarounds in light of said limitation.

[pils 49]

Two words: engine limitation. All of the proposed solutions besides this are workarounds in light of said limitation.

I can't remember the exact numbers, I think the Comanche 20mm Gatling did 10 rounds per second, the small caliber Gatlings 15 and 20 rounds per second the last time I tested them. So there should be at least some room for a slight increase.

And imo the splash damage workaround wasn't a good choice for a workaround. So some of the people here and I would like to know if it's possible to get a simulated higher rate of fire instead of the splash damage.

[fraczek 4]

Re: Miniguns, could somebody reiterate how it was done in A2? I don't remember them having FPS limited RoF, neither being unusable against infantry...I might be wrong though.

[CaptainObvious 95]

servers fps in mp and players fps in sp.

this isnt 2001 when the games actual speed is influenced by fps.

Ok, and this is bullet/barrel/frame, right?

Wouldn't it be a good solution to add e.g. 3 hidden barrels to the miniguns?

[roberthammer 582]

Re: Miniguns, could somebody reiterate how it was done in A2? I don't remember them having FPS limited RoF, neither being unusable against infantry...I might be wrong though.

You are right - that in A2 it worked well , no problems there , also here you can see main reason why > http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161837-Helicopter-miniguns-issues&p=2475354&viewfull=1#post2475354

arma 3 minigun uses a splash damage instead of multiplier= 3 and the proper ROF modes