Dragon Rising has been released

[froggyluv 2136]

.

The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there. This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

The thing you fail to understand is that had BIS promised us a brand new engine with "unrivalled features and AI" and then given us a game with 63 guys capped and you can't look left to right and everybodys tethered, you would have seen 10x the rancor.

They promoted false sh#t in an arrogant manner and the reception they have received by the original community (whom they claimed lineage) is only suitable.

[sic-disaster 311]

Templargfx: The thing that saddens me the most is that people (a great amount of which are ARMA fans) bag out the game, call it crap and what not, simply because its called flashpoint, and isnt like the original. or it doesnt have DS. And forget to look at the game thats there. This saddens me because I think of those poor programmers and artists and developers that slaved for hours and hours over this game get to see there "baby" have shit plastered all over it, due to the actions of the publishing branch of CM.

Right mate. You want to know what saddens me? That BIS has had a great success making a very niche game successful, gaining devoted fans over the years, that despite the game being so hardcore and most companies would pull their hands off such a project in fear of it not being profitable, yet they were able to make it a 'huge' success, especially looking at how niche it actually was.

That BIS had the balls to make a game that most people wouldnt call fun, because as we all know 'games are made to be fun! not realistic!' but BIS were able to say 'fuck that, realism IS fun' and went ahead making the best game ever.

Just to have it stomped on by those corporate cocksuckers at CM once they smelled the success and thought to themselves how much more money they could make out of it if you would just throw out everything that makes OPF tick.

I just love how people usually tell me to not care so much about a fucking game, but this thoughtprocess is something i despise either in the gaming world, or everywhere else.

Now my turn for an analogy.

I can't kill Eminem and get a facelift to look just like him, to make a new Eminem album under his name.

If the police didnt get me, the fans would.

This is our way of getting the fake Eminem, because quite obviously we can't go in a store carrying an M249 gunning down every DR copy we come across.

But God knows i'd love to.

Now if only there was a way to through all those CM cunts in jail...

Instead their boss gets knighted by the queen.

EDIT: you know who Templargfx actually reminds me of? Chris Crocker. Wouldnt surprise me if it actually was him. Just replace 'leave Britney alone!' with 'leave CM alone!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Edited January 6, 2010 by SiC-Disaster

[Second 0]

Right mate. You want to know what saddens me? That BIS has had a great success making a very niche game successful, gaining devoted fans over the years, that despite the game being so hardcore and most companies would pull their hands off such a project in fear of it not being profitable, yet they were able to make it a 'huge' success, especially looking at how niche it actually was.

That BIS had the balls to make a game that most people wouldnt call fun, because as we all know 'games are made to be fun! not realistic!' but BIS were able to say 'fuck that, realism IS fun' and went ahead making the best game ever.

Niece?! LOL. You know what OFP was first about to be? Ever heard game Battlezone? If they would have kept that direction it really would have been niece game, probably might had killed BIS. But gladly no, they made it mostly infantry game... Which juuuust happened to be very hot those days and has been to this day. Tactical shooter had already emerged and seemed to sell pretty well. Hidden & Dangerous was hot in 1999, i was in Army back then and couple instructors praised it to heaves, my rig was poor at the time so i wasn't able to play other than Quake's Navy Seals mod. That was era when it became clear that Doom, Quake and such fantasy shooter were already moving into "niece markets" to make room for tactical shooters. OFP was one of many.

5 million sold games is not niece. It was not intented to be to be niece, it designed to make large piles of $$$ for those involved. I believe this firm Interactive Magic or whatever in fact made BIS to take this step from their original "Battlezone-clone" which involved just vehicles waging combat over large area. And you can thank Codemasters for them demanding/advicing BIS to include MP, because that generates even more $$$. BIS of course understands this as it doesn't want to become just niece game developer as that doesn't generate $$$.

Now. (Remade) Battlezone was one of the greatest game of it's release year (maybe 1999). It mostly it got praises from reviewer, many stated it to become classic (it indeed was smoking hot game!), but sold badly and sank, because it was actual niece-game.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Second

[Zipper5 74]

I notice that everyone is now contradicting many things that we've taken for granted over the last 9 years. First that BIS' games are no longer military simulators, and now that BIS does not make niche games. Since BIS makes nowhere near the amount of money most mainstream developers make, I would call them a niche developer. You know, discounting the fact that they make games where you're an average Joe and one shot can end the game...

[gulag 10]

The thing you fail to understand is that had BIS promised us a brand new engine with "unrivalled features and AI" and then given us a game with 63 guys capped and you can't look left to right and everybodys tethered, you would have seen 10x the rancor.

They promoted false sh#t in an arrogant manner and the reception they have received by the original community (whom they claimed lineage) is only suitable.

Well said, this is the main reason why most of the OFP fans left the game and DR community, but this Templar guy can't understand this things because he is a member of the DR community from the moment when game was released, is a simply DR fan, there is no cure for him, until it will be disappointed.

[sic-disaster 311]

I remember Battlezone all too well. BZ shares my Nr1. best game ever spot together with Operation Flashpoint.

BZ is still alive though ;)

And i know that after the Quake era many developers wanted 'bigger and better' which seemed to be the tactical shooter.

But not too many of them believed in it like BIS did and still does, because they are still making these games. Who else is?

And what other good tactical shooters can you really recommend?

It stops with Hidden and Dangerous, Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon and Swat too. The older ones that is. None of that new crap.

After that era of 'tactical shooters' most developers quickly returned to less sophisticated gameplay. And most of them cannot be compared with OFP.

It was too big, too open-ended for most players. Even a lot Ghost Recon players who loved realism looked down on it.

Selling 5 million copies is quite the feat, but that doesnt change the game's niche background.

It was a fad at the time, but with all such things, they rise quickly and are gone just as quickly as well. You can't hide a gem like OFP in a sea of trash though.

Another example: Slipknot.

Who ever thought 9 maniacs in jumpsuits and masks trashing metal kegs out of shittyville in Nowhereland would ever become as big as they are now?

Yet here they are.

I was around in that time as well, and though i remember that part of time very well, there is nothing that compared to a real honest to god tactical shooter.

Edited January 6, 2010 by SiC-Disaster

[wiggum2 31]

The thing that makes OFP special in some way is the combination of a military FPS with a "open world" and the great modding and edditing potential allowing it everybody to have the guys ingame look like his "favorite army".

I dont know if OFP introduced this "one shot = death" thing, maybe.

I agree full with Second, OFP was done to make money, OFP was a product.

Thats not a bad thing thats clear and OFP is on my personal list of the "best games ever" because it was something special.

But im not happy with the way they took. In my opinion ArmA2 is the same thing like OFP just with better graphics.

It is like a band making 3 Albums with the same sound but every time with a better studio technic...some like it and other would like to see a step forward.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Wiggum

[jw custom 56]

But im not happy with the way they took. In my opinion ArmA2 is the same thing like OFP just with better graphics.

It is like a band making 3 Albums with the same sound...some like it and other would like to see a step forward.

So you have never played GRAW!

[andersson 285]

Arma2 is supposed to be like OFP, but improved. And it is improved in many ways.

OFP:DR was advertised to be "the sequel" of OFP, and better. But its not. Its not even improved and absolutely not even close to OFP.

[bascule42 10]

Yeah...I wouldn't want too much change from CWC to ArmA 2.

[jblackrupert 14]

just cos you think its bad, doesnt mean it is

A good game doesn't hit the bargain bin within 2 months

A good game doesn't have 90% of it's followers abandon it within a month.

A good game doesn't have a forum full of disgruntled customers

screaming for blood (Not talking about Arma 2 people).

A good game doesn't need several moderators banning people

for making complaints.

A good game doesn't need to be advertised with blatant lies

and false promises. Pre-renders labeled as in-game.

A good game doesn't have stores accepting returns on opened copies

because of the large amount of complaints.

A good game doesn't have a developer that goes silent after release.

A good games doesn't have it's name appearing all over forums

being used as an example of a crappy game and the butt of jokes.

DR is a bad game no matter how you try to sugar coat it

and CM are liars, their own customers not just us are saying that.

All you have is the easy to please console crowd gushing over you

which is in my opinion is the only reason you're still around

and maybe fantasies of making some money off a few suckers

willing to shell out $10 for a mission.

Heck, even Polaris knew when to call it quits.

[max power 21]

Regardless of people's styles of self expression and level of agreement with his ideas, Templargfx is obviously welcome here. I know this because he is not banned. The forum population is not the owners nor proprietors of this forum. We are not the hosts to welcome people or not. We may simply agree or disagree.

[joey_45 0]

At the end of the day, it's a console game that was ported over to the PC but wasn't edited apart for [what IW say as 'bonus features'] Mouse/Keyboard support and costom graphic settings.

[instagoat 133]

Regardless of people's styles of self expression and level of agreement with his ideas, Templargfx is obviously welcome here. I know this because he is not banned. The forum population is not the owners nor proprietors of this forum. We are not the hosts to welcome people or not. We may simply agree or disagree.

Well said.

It´s been sort of clear from release day on that DR wasn´t in the same league as Arma 2. By now, seeing the constant comparisons between them has grown a little tedious, and the flaming that´s going on sometimes is downright disappointing (Mostly in the other forum, even though this thread hasn´t been -entirely- civil all the time either.).

It´s quite amazing to see what people can squeeze out of that game, even though it falls "slightly" short of the mark, and they have my respect for that.

If anything, for the names sake, Dragon Rising should be compared to OFP:CWC.

CWC for example has a scaleable Unit cap of between 20 and 256 (Editor Objects). No tether in multiplayer, and expandeable to infinity. I´ve checked out the new version of the 40K mod recently, and normally I´m using Sanctuary´s WW4 mod inbetween playing Arma 2 and these Indie games I have, on top of tons of other addons and Islands.

And after almost nine years, it still has a strong community behind it. The way Codemasters pulled off the game isn´t only an affront to the OFP name, but the Community that´s been behind it since day one.

If they had pulled it off correctly, and made everything as transparent as BIS does, instead of having an expensive marketing team ruin the game (while making fancy devdiary videos) by trying to stuff it into three non-compatible markets at once, this whole affair might have gone down differently.

Unfortunately, not so.

[jblackrupert 14]

Players making to attempting to fix the game is one thing, trying to sucker people into paying for it is another.

[Second 0]

I notice that everyone is now contradicting many things that we've taken for granted over the last 9 years. First that BIS' games are no longer military simulators, and now that BIS does not make niche games. Since BIS makes nowhere near the amount of money most mainstream developers make, I would call them a niche developer. You know, discounting the fact that they make games where you're an average Joe and one shot can end the game...

Correct. Most of this is somewhat illusion which "we are so special"-part of OFP community has bathed in for years, which has become self extablished mantra. :)

First of all it might have been Marek who stated after release of OFP that "We don't want to be known as military experts".

Next: What is military simulator? Military is that big part of society, where you have captains, and colonels and slang, and guns, and vehicles, large facilities, of course budget issues, maybe even wars, politics and all. Does ArmA2 present this all? It's sure nice to toss around such word as military, then combine it with simulator and it's even fancier.

OFP sold 5 millions!!! Why? Because player didn't die to first bullet? Or because it happened to be one of the greatest games amongst other shooters and people didn't give a damn if they died in the first bullet, as long as game is good and entertaining.

We are discussing about OFP being niece, which it quite clearly isn't.. Is BIS niece developer? They seems to be closer to medium sized than actual niece. ArmA sold some hundred thousands units, ArmA2 will sell probably some more. It's rather normal for shooter which gets such reviews.

[andersson 285]

If anything, for the names sake, Dragon Rising should be compared to OFP:CWC.

CWC for example has a scaleable Unit cap of between 20 and 256 (Editor Objects)....

Good point.

What do you mean by the "unit cap" between 20 and 256?

[instagoat 133]

Good point.

What do you mean by the "unit cap" between 20 and 256?

To be honest, I´ve -actually- not figure out what exactly this does. In the OFP options, you can set the amount of objects (Editor Objects, presumeably.) to any amount between 20 and 256.

I think this means the total amount of Editor Object the game can render at any given time. I think this has been discussed -ages- ago back when OFP was released, so information on this seems scarce.

Right now I believe that it basically says the same as the fixed max amount of objects in Dragon Rising, except that you can scale it freely to fit your computers performance. So instead of a maximum of 63 + 1 Units, you can get 255 + 1 Units on the map at any one time in CWC.

If I´m incorrect, I´d be glad if somebody else could clear this up.

As for BIS being a niche developer, I think that they´re actually on the bigger end of the Indie developer´s scale. OFP was successful back in the day, but then it also had the Codemasters advertising machine behind it. If Arma is lacking anything, it´s publicity (which is horrendously expensive when thorough). What happens if you spend too much effort on graphics design and advertising can be seen in Dragon Rising, meanwhile.

Even though as an arts person myself, I have to say that if anything, the Dragon Rising graphic design is pretty coherent and nice to look at, even though clumsy in parts.

And why they have photographs of Army Soldiers on the front end when the game is about US Marines, I´ve not understood anyway.

[myshaak 0]

Wasn't the unit cap for OFP:CWC 64 groups per side?

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Wasn't the unit cap for OFP:CWC 64 groups per side?

I don't remember the group cap, but think about that for a second. The cap for each group was 12. With 4 sides (East, West, Resistance, Civilian), a map maker could, by your parameters, have 64x12x4=3072 units.

Kinda beats Dragon Rising's 63 or 64, or whatever it is, doesn't it? Dragon Rising's limit doesn't even allow 2 platoons to fight each other and since I usually made scenarios involving companies in CWC, that seems like a large step down, doesn't it?

[sanctuary 19]

To be exact, the limit is 63 groups by side for OFP.

[Scrub 0]

A good game doesn't hit the bargain bin within 2 months

A good game doesn't have...

OUCH! That is a list of pretty harsh facts that is hard to deny. I thought you were being biased and slamming the game, but verifying your statements, I see it's well balanced and fair.

[walker 0]

Hi all

DR has destroyed CM's credibility.

Kind Regards walker

[4 IN 1 0]

To be exact, the limit is 63 groups by side for OFP.

Yeah, I kind of remember that its count per-side, given that you have 4 side(west, east, res, and civ)take out the fact that civ is useless, thats 64x12x3=2304 in total, and no computer at that time can handle that if i remember correctly. In OFP:E the size is reduced i believe, but still much larger then DR tiny 63+1 number.

[jakerod 254]

To be exact, the limit is 63 groups by side for OFP.

144 now in ArmA II isn't it?