Dragon Rising has been released

[froggyluv 2130]

To be fair, I don't think it should matter if DR requires the echelon to be present to 'activate AI' as it's a one step process. What matters is the overall effectiveness of the AI with minimal setup in which both games have their strengths and weaknesses.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

another video showing an AI unit without an echelon. which makes it invalid as a comparison. you cant compare all of the AI in one game, to half the AI in another. unless your trying to be bias

Well, I'm just a simple viewer :p Feel free to contact the author of that video and ask how he did it.

Three questions:

1. Is it ok that it takes that long until the player dies like shown in the video? I know, no hardcore mode ... but still ... Last time I've seen such a thing when I played the Crysis demo. :j:

2. Does anyone think the supporting of "that game" - I call it the community - will last at least 9 years like the original Cold War Crisis community did?

3. How are people "that game" anyway without dedicated servers?

[gulag 10]

@Legislator:

"Does anyone think the supporting of "that game" - I call it the community - will last at least 9 years like the original Cold War Crisis community did?"

Support? For what? In this moment the only guy who do something for the DR game is Templar but certainly after a while he will be disappointed too, I am sure that the dev team no longer exists, this is CM policy: do a project and then move to another project, remain only a couple guys for maintenance, a game made without a bit of "soul" is impossible to receive such a long supor from the community (but even a community can not be seen there). DR is a simple routine game. I've played it once is enough.

Edited January 5, 2010 by gulag

[Tonci87 163]

Templar I have no Idea what this Echolon Thing is, but please go and make a Test Video like this one with echolon activated.

[CW001 10]

Hmm, just noticed something rather odd on the Intel DR mission contesnt. Templar came in 5th with his Grab and Dash thingy:

3. Lack of Intel by PaLL3, with an average score of 7.2 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, and collector goodies.

4. Intel - Codename: Bloomfield by Insum, with an average score of 6.6 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, plus collector goodies.

5. Urban War - Intel Grab-And-Dash by templargfx, with an average score of 6.4 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, plus 3 Codemasters PC Games (DiRt 2, Overlord 2, and Fuel), an A3 poster signed by the OFP:DR development team, and collector goodies.

Note that, even though hecame in 5th, he got a crapload more prizes than 4th and 3rd places.

Hmm..

Edited January 5, 2010 by CW001
Keyboard f'up.

[Zipper5 74]

Woah, what the? I'd rather have come 5th. :butbut:

[Pain0815 10]

The echelon is just to save performance i think, because not all enemy groups in the box missions and campaign use it. i think if you put all 63 entities under such a echolon then the game would become a few problems (not sure 100% but i think its one of the reasons.

I bet the higher AI echelon skills are just for a few units per mission.

But the AI just flanking with it and use other movements, the aiming is still that bad.

Maybe we should compare echelon dr ai against normal arma ai, but arma would win again same way.

And if we use Arma with Zeus & GL4 there will be no competition anymore, because dr had nothing to throw against that.

DR is still just a mil shooter ported from console. It just low cost compared to Arma.

A shit its just low cost compared to opf1 too.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Pain0815

[TheCrusader 10]

First the DR ppl acted all smug with their (at that time unreleased) "ARMA Killer" and now they struggle to show that DR is nearly as good as ARMA in one single aspect ???

Laughing my ass off over here

p.s.

@TemplarGFX

You challenge the ARMA2 community?

Well, as you are a guest let me likewise issue a challange.

Just create something like ACE2!

Oh wait that was a community effort, unfair you say, good point!

Then this should suffice:

DAC2.1

p.p.s.

btw you can have the help of any number of DR developers for this one :D (we normally don't need them in mission making with ARMA).

p.p.p.s.

Now you'll probably think I'm a major a$$, and you might be right!

Thats just how one comes across if you act smug, like I did in my post above.

And thats also one big reason why the DR community has such an ill reputation around here.

Go figure.

p.p.p.p.s.

But at least the DR developers did a more thorough job at humbling you guys than we ever could!

Sry couldn't resist :p

Edited January 5, 2010 by TheCrusader

[wiggum2 31]

You can say what you want about the DR AI but i prefer it over the ArmA2 AI !

I just played a mission where i have to attack a Mortar position (big battle goes on around you).

I scanned the area and think "no enemys here" so i sent my team to take position on the sandbags to defend this location.

But suddenly PLA soldier started shooting from behind those sandbags just 25m away and i got shot (mhh they are not so bad marksmans). I watched the action from the birdsview and it looked really good how my men pounded them with fire and overrun their position...not like these stiffly ArmA AI.

Just my opinion... ;)

[Tukeman 10]

There propably were no enemies behind those sanbags when you first checked, because the magical number of 63 AI slots were used, but then 4 Chinese soldiers were killed and 4 new ones were spawned behind those sanbags :D

[myshaak 0]

There propably were no enemies behind those sanbags when you first checked, because the magical number of 63 AI slots were used, but then 4 Chinese soldiers were killed and 4 new ones were spawned behind those sanbags :D

I was thinking the same thing! :D

[Aeneas2020 10]

As someone who has defended DR as being "average" and having my ass flamed off earlier in this thread I have to say i agree with the other arma2 boys here. I played thatm mission also (the mortar one) and there is nothing there that strikes me as advanced AI more than some scripted events. Case in point in that mission you have the option of taking out some AA emplacements to make your life easier. I decided not to go for this but instead took a route around the other side of the mountain meaning I could by pass almost all the enemies entirely. At one point I walked behind an enemy squad by about 10 meters, they had no idea i was there. I later replayed the mission and just where i loaded in the AA guns started shooting at my squad on the hill. While i ran for cover and screamed at my AI team mates to follow (even pointed to a place and told them to move fast) they just stood there and waited to die. Like i said before DR is a very average tactical fps that should be judged in the same vein as RS:Vegas but it is a completely different beast than arma2 and any suggestion of advanced AI is ridiculous.

[max power 21]

Maybe your squad AI wasn't set up with an echelon.:dd:

[froggyluv 2130]

...any suggestion of advanced AI is ridiculous.

I don't know if I would call it advanced...

The CQB are tighter in DR and they are far better at surrounding and getting you if your inside a house.

The AI flying and driving in DR is horrendous though.

Longrange firefights seem more believable in Arma2.

[Bulldogs 10]

Eh, I haven't seen one game with good ai driving lately.

That mortar mission is the only one I've seen a good AI moment in so far. Sent my AI to attack an enemy while I suppressed it, telling them to flank right, and they actually flanked around a building and killed the enemy from behind. I almost swear I saw one of my units put the barrel to the back of the enemies head and pull the trigger.

Although, after repeat attempts I haven't been able to reproduce it.

[jw custom 56]

You can say what you want about the DR AI but i prefer it over the ArmA2 AI !

I just played a mission where i have to attack a Mortar position (big battle goes on around you).

I scanned the area and think "no enemys here" so i sent my team to take position on the sandbags to defend this location.

But suddenly PLA soldier started shooting from behind those sandbags just 25m away and i got shot (mhh they are not so bad marksmans). I watched the action from the birdsview and it looked really good how my men pounded them with fire and overrun their position...not like these stiffly ArmA AI.

Just my opinion... ;)

Thats one sick experience huh...

[Stryker_1 10]

I thought this thread would've died ages ago....lol....comparing ARMA II to DR is useless. They are completely different games. DR = Console Shooter & ARMA II = Military Sim. Nuff said.

I bought DR and the thing that ticks me off is CM shouldn't of marketed it as the sequel to Operation Flashpoint because frankly it is no where near or close to anything like the original. If CM had of named it something else I would've waited before purchasing and find out more about it. I would've realized that it is a console shooter and bypass it. A shame really, I was hoping it would've succeeded to give a different product in the mil sim genre. Lesson learned here, I don't trust CM and the marketing engine. Bohemia I trust and the proof is in the support and the way ARMA II can be modded. ARMA II gets most of my playing time because it is fun, period. DR is not, it's button mashing like a lot of console games.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Stryker_1

[Aeneas2020 10]

I don't know if I would call it advanced...

The CQB are tighter in DR and they are far better at surrounding and getting you if your inside a house.

The AI flying and driving in DR is horrendous though.

Longrange firefights seem more believable in Arma2.

The way the AI handles buildings is pretty good in DR, never said it wasn't. However combat dynamics wise it's pretty dumb. So i think we are agreeing.

[Bulldogs 10]

I like the ai building clearing, although the reason that doesn't work in arma 2 is because the ai in dr are scripted per building for clearing sequences, hence why all buildings in dr look the same from the inside (well, there's a few variations)

[froggyluv 2130]

I like the ai building clearing, although the reason that doesn't work in arma 2 is because the ai in dr are scripted per building for clearing sequences, hence why all buildings in dr look the same from the inside (well, there's a few variations)

Yeah, well more like 3 or 4, but pretty minimal. Still, I'd prefer that in Arma2, that being buildings that are actually functional then a large variety, but the AI can't do anything with them. It's not only the clearing that works, albeit scripted or not, but Ai will open doors, and take positions at the proper window when there is an incoming threat, without direct placement order -thats pretty cool.

This is really the only feature of DR (mixed with orientation which is necessary for interior activity) that I'd love to see in upcoming BI titles. OA is supposed to be a heavily urban area and I'm a little nervous about the AI + indoors.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

comparing ARMA II to DR is useless. They are completely different games. DR = Console Shooter & ARMA II = Military Sim. Nuff said.

Yeah, basicly you're right. I remember some gaming magazines starting this whole flame war by making people believe ArmA II would be worst pc game ever and of course Dragon Rising would be the best military shooter in pc games history. In almost every article they were side by side. Two different communities got hyped.

Well, ArmA II was released and it was indeed a total disaster. ArmA players were laughed at, BI was laughed at. ArmA players had to defend themselves for playing such a shitty game. From what I've read in the past months most attacks came from DR fans.

Well, now DR failed and everywhere you can see the revenge. I guess it's only human. "If you piss against the wind, sometimes you'll hit yourself" :D

In 2008 DR may had been a "threat" to ArmA and its community by "stealing" players, modders and so on. Some left indeed, but there again, much more players left DR and came back to the "shitty ArmA II". Imho BIS should never had sold the name Operation Flashpoint. It was a big mistake. Some players actually believe that OFP: Cold War Crisis was made by the hands of the Codemasters, not by Bohemia Interactive. I guess the whole topic will keep as busy for a while. Next game we're looked at will be "Operation Flashpoint 3" :rolleyes:

@froggyluv:

True, I managed to keep an AI squad in the SP mission "Eye of an Eye" together in one house. It was a fancy experience. The hold the position I told them to hold at the doors and windows and they survived. Ok, to be fair .. I had to load once because the house was hit by a grenade killing my team and myself ;)

Edited January 5, 2010 by [GLT] Legislator

[templargfx 10]

Hmm, just noticed something rather odd on the Intel DR mission contesnt. Templar came in 5th with his Grab and Dash thingy:

3. Lack of Intel by PaLL3, with an average score of 7.2 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, and collector goodies.

4. Intel - Codename: Bloomfield by Insum, with an average score of 6.6 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, plus collector goodies.

5. Urban War - Intel Grab-And-Dash by templargfx, with an average score of 6.4 out of 10. He wins an Intel®Core™i7-860 processor, plus 3 Codemasters PC Games (DiRt 2, Overlord 2, and Fuel), an A3 poster signed by the OFP:DR development team, and collector goodies.

Note that, even though hecame in 5th, he got a crapload more prizes than 4th and 3rd places.

Hmm..

learn to read jeeze

round 1 I came 2nd, winning 3 codemasters games, an A3 signed poster, and collector goodies

round 2 I came 5th winning a CPU

0db8UzUptd8

Watch the fight at the start (my entire squad gets owned) none of the first bit is scripted. I have taken the town, and the enemy units currently spawned have been given only 1 command, Search And Destroy the location of the town. They steal my chopper! (near the end)

And FFS dont start posting ARMA2 comments like a "Few" of you did on some of my other videos, they have nothing to do with ARMA2 and are not trying to say anything about arma2. not that I expect the people who do this are mature enough to not do it again

[ricbar89 0]

BIS stands for High Quality and hyper Realistic Mil Sims, Codemasters....Well...what do they stand for? It doesn´t surprise me that they have choosen Operation Flashpoint as name

I'd hardley say BIS stands for "high quality" mil sims, its takes multiple patch's to get them to the point where you can play through the campaign.

But yeah when i think BIS i think realism.

[Nazul 10]

I cant stand the voices in Arma2 the way theyve been strung together but at least they have the correct tone in relation to the situation.

In DR he speaks with that relaxed voice in all situations, it was annoying me more than Arma2 voices.

[wiggum2 31]

ARMA II = Military Sim. Nuff said.

Yeah, nuff said... :D

For me calling ArmA2 a "sim" is like calling DR a "sim"...both wrong !

I played now nearly two hours ArmA2. Lots of battles against the AI and it maybe is not worser then the DR AI but its not better anyway.

Gettings your team to do something usefull in ArmA2 is hard work and still they dont act like they should.

And yes, one of the biggest drawbacks since OFP is that the AI cant use building at all.

Here a Screenshot i took:

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=snap00253ee7.jpg

AI Settings are 0.85 with Ultra-AI, but this guy wont shot at me for minutes (maybe because i stand at that dirt...then i shot him and his dog.)

There propably were no enemies behind those sanbags when you first checked, because the magical number of 63 AI slots were used, but then 4 Chinese soldiers were killed and 4 new ones were spawned behind those sanbags :D

They arent spawned...

They (3 PLA) are prone behind the sandbags...took the head up...shot at me...and go prone again...took the head up...shot ect. ect.

Some are in a near building i saw as i played it again so i dont know whats going on exactly but they are not spawned for sure. (!!)

Edited January 6, 2010 by Wiggum