Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[das attorney 857]

Signalling sun

[R3vo 2652]

Oh yeah? So your mortars fire signaling flares? Does that sound even logical to you? This is just a poor excuse for something you guys can fix in a second in a config tweak.

Even if it were true that ALL flares in Arma 3 were designed to be signaling flares (it's not) we have very little gameplay need for that. Think of all the cool scenarios that can use illumination rounds that are now gone because of this.

If this is by design after all, please have a designer look at it and issue a small design change that will make a lot of users happy.

Seriously, false excuses like that just makes me sad.

 

Nice exuse from the devs. So the flares in the coop campaign in the "Hearts of Darkness" mission where signaling flares? Why the heck was their brightness scripted to make them illuminate the surrounding then?

[joostsidy 682]

Oops, so I guess the 'signal flare' reasoning was a slight PR mistake from BIS as it doesn't reassure the public at all but just agrevates everyone for being total nonsense. :-(

 

Some things are still not clear to me:

- Is it only a config brightness value issue? Can it for instance be modded to give proper illumination?

- Why is the low illumination chosen?

                - is a single bright flare already resource hungry or is it that BIS wants to guarantee that you can fire a dozen flares without impacting FPS?

                - is it a choice that flare light is dim to prevent lighting limitations being too obvious like lighting through buildings, no shadows?

 

Like it has been said, it seems a no-brainer that a bright flare is preferable for interesting scenario's of any type even with the limitations of dynamic lights.

 

It makes so little sense that I suspect something like flares have to be dim, because flare light hitting tanoa buildings will cause CTD. :-P

[x3kj 1247]

 

- Is it only a config brightness value issue? Can it for instance be modded to give proper illumination?

for the umpteenth time... yes

[teabagginpeople 398]

you need to realize that the flares are signaling flares not illumination flares (at least that was the explanation given to me about theirs lighting config)

Thanks for the work on lighting at night. Didn't go unnoticed. I was surprised not more was said to be honest.

Regards flares. Even though you said it was the explanation you were given. I think it's fair the reaction from players thinking it's a weak reason :D .

Basically illuminating flares add way way more to gameplay for many reasons and also double act as a signaling flare. Making the signal flare redundant. So if it is just a case of a miscommunication perhaps correct that.

If say for some reason it is a different problem feel free to be open about it. It might get a negative reaction but still commands respect .

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

#flaregate

 

 

most of us regulars dont care all that much, but we would like some non-vehicular/destructive/lamp illumination at nights for scenario design. Flares fired from mortars are not signal flares and should illuminate the area, campfires should be visible from some distance, large scripted flames should be visible from distance   (createvehicle ['test_emptyobjectforfirebig',(position player),[],0,'none']), chemlights should be visible from 10+ meters ... etc.

[x3kj 1247]

Thanks for the work on lighting at night. Didn't go unnoticed. I was surprised not more was said to be honest.

They improved consistency between altis/tanoa, so the patchnote said. I just went ingame and checked what effect that had - The environment still almost all black around for me (default PP & Gamma settings) at full moon with 0 overcast on an IPS monitor with fairly good colordepth and contrast. Moonlight reflects off shiny surfaces (buildings, vehicles) but thats about it. Without NV or light i would count myself as entirely useless regardless of moonphase.  Unless the environment is exclusively the salt/sandlake on northeast of altis where ground is in contrast to the rest of the environment objects. Judge it yourself. Intel - Full moon June 10th 2035  21:00;  0% Overcast

Maybe it's also related to bad rvmats/textures on the environment (ground, plants, ...) instead of just the lighting setting. If they have bad specular/gloss values, they won't reflect any light and therefore look mostly black.

[Vasily.B 529]

They improved consistency between altis/tanoa, so the patchnote said. I just went ingame and checked what effect that had - The environment still almost all black around for me (default PP & Gamma settings) at full moon with 0 overcast on an IPS monitor with fairly good colordepth and contrast. Moonlight reflects off shiny surfaces (buildings, vehicles) but thats about it. Without NV or light i would count myself as entirely useless regardless of moonphase.  Unless the environment is exclusively the salt/sandlake on northeast of altis where ground is in contrast to the rest of the environment objects. Judge it yourself. Intel - Full moon June 10th 2035  21:00;  0% Overcast

Maybe it's also related to bad rvmats/textures on the environment (ground, plants, ...) instead of just the lighting setting, that prevent them from reflecting any light, and therefore look entirely black.

This is why NVG was made for - its just like IRL in "my world". When i look out of the window its just like that, take in account month, when moon would be closest to the earth.

[Greenfist 1863]

When the moon is high, the difference between 1.62 and 1.63 is pretty huge:

This is June 10th 2100:

(Can you spot the campfire 140m out?)

[x3kj 1247]

ok seeing the comparison its surely better but still kinda weird (imo). What condition was the first pair aprox?

This just looks weird to me. Everything black except the wall and the tree trunk basically. (most lighted condition at june 10 i found). I feel like the grass and the leaves on the trees should be more reflective of the moonlight.

[Greenfist 1863]

ok seeing the comparison its surely better but still kinda weird (imo). What condition was the first pair aprox?

This just looks weird to me. Everything black except the wall and the tree trunk basically. (best possible condition at june 10 i found). I feel like the grass and the leaves on the trees should be more reflective of the moonlight.

I think it was February, full moon, no clouds, after midnight.

Your display settings may be a little off, because I can easily make out the grass and everything in your screenshot. :confused:

The grass isn't black black though, more like around RGB 8,8,8.

[CaptainObvious 95]

I can easily make out the grass and everything in your screenshot. :confused:

 

Ya, same here, it's pretty believable in my eyes, especially when I turn off the lights and the room is dark.

[x3kj 1247]

Your display settings may be a little off, because I can easily make out the grass and everything in your screenshot. :confused:

The grass isn't black black though, more like around RGB 8,8,8.

I can make out the grass in the last shot i posted, but only because the ground is lighter than the grass. And this seems wrong to me, as the ground is alot rougher (and therefore less reflective) than smooth gras/tree leaves. Even the tree bark is more reflective than the leaves...

And this nonreflectiveness of grass and leafes makes it impossible to see flora in darker nights than "perfect high + full moon + 0 overcast" condition.

 

 

 

Ya, same here, it's pretty believable in my eyes, especially when I turn off the lights and the room is dark.

remember that this is basically perfect condition (in the last picture i posted and in the first pair Greenfist posted). I'm not convinced that the highest possible moonlight looks this dark. Wether that is because of lighting or bad choice of texture/material balance is another question.

[The Ferryman 1]

Looks great. Keep up the good work.

[Beagle 684]

This is why NVG was made for - its just like IRL in "my world". When i look out of the window its just like that, take in account month, when moon would be closest to the earth.

I served in an Army (1993-95) where night vision was restricted to vehicles and 1 active IR Observation Device per squad. Do you really believe all action stopped at night?

No, we had natural night vision, a half moon is enough to soo someone on a open field at 50m. we used 50m open iron sights and ilumination parachute rounds from flare pistols.

 

Just because night operations without NV is barely possible in ArmA 3 Apex does not mean its even close to the real life.

 

btw. real passive night vision also does not work in a really dark night under trees canopy (aka jungle) or in a closed room A night vision device can only amplifie low light, if ther is not enough of low light it does not work at all. In that case you need IR illumination (there exist IR-chemlights for that purpose) in the case that makes you visible just liek using a flashlight to other NV users, or simply use....tactical flashlights...yes even today. In general resolution, sensitivity and hence range of vehicle mounted large and heavy system is always in the scope of a few thousand meters, while that of handheld or oven helmet monted systems is only in the scope of a few hundred meters. This is even more valid for TI devices where sensor size and cooling play a even more important role.

 

The way NV and TI  works in ArmA currently regarding the neglection of remaining light, sensitivity and size and resolution and dependent usable range is able to hide how screwed the night lighting currently is.

[x3kj 1247]

when the only time you can distinguish fauna from a black backdrop at night in an open field is during a full moon when it is highest, something is definitely wrong imo. There should be more visibility at half moon at the very least.

I checked the trees/plants rvmats/textures but i'm unsure how the specularity for their shader works (if it works at all). They only have specularity multiplier values but no spec textures, only diffuse, normal and lightmap.

 

 

The way NV works in ArmA currently regarding the neglection of remaining light

In starlight-only night you can't see very well with NV in A3 currently. If a target is standing still it can blend in with the background at some distance. But i agree that NV in Arma is pretty strong (strong amplification without any dedicated light/IR sources, negligible artifacts at low light, etc). TI... lets not talk about that. Best left disabled if you want interesting gameplay...

[Vasily.B 529]

I served in an Army (1993-95) where night vision was restricted to vehicles and 1 active IR Observation Device per squad. Do you really believe all action stopped at night?

No, we had natural night vision, a half moon is enough to soo someone on a open field at 50m. we used 50m open iron sights and ilumination parachute rounds from flare pistols.

 

Just because night operations without NV is barely possible in ArmA 3 Apex does not mean its even close to the real life.

 

btw. real passive night vision also does not work in a really dark night under trees canopy (aka jungle) or in a closed room A night vision device can only amplifie low light, if ther is not enough of low light it does not work at all. In that case you need IR illumination (there exist IR-chemlights for that purpose) in the case that makes you visible just liek using a flashlight to other NV users, or simply use....tactical flashlights...yes even today. In general resolution, sensitivity and hence range of vehicle mounted large and heavy system is always in the scope of a few thousand meters, while that of handheld or oven helmet monted systems is only in the scope of a few hundred meters. This is even more valid for TI devices where sensor size and cooling play a even more important role.

 

The way NV and TI  works in ArmA currently regarding the neglection of remaining light, sensitivity and size and resolution and dependent usable range is able to hide how screwed the night lighting currently is.

On 50M - i can agree, but take in account nobody sayed about distance to see on full moon. It look loke everyone want to see bright nighs as days. I know how NV light work, it need light from envoirment (stars, moon) to work best. I used to use mod "advanced fullscreen Night vision goggles" where appear possibility to adjust their sensivity. So for now i can see everyone at 50M without problem.

[dragon01 902]

Did anyone notice the outside being extremely bright if you spawn as a pilot inside a vehicle (or even move the Eden camera into the cockpit)? I noticed it on Wipeout and Kajman, as well as both VTOLs. I believe it's another problem with the visual upgrade.

[x3kj 1247]

no thats HDR which existed even before A3...

[dragon01 902]

Well, in that case something's wrong with HDR. I'm sure it didn't use to do that. Maybe the lighting update exacerbated an old problem, in any case, it looks ridiculous and makes the affected vehicles very hard to use. 

 

That said, setting HDR to "standard" fixed the problem almost completely. So, it's the "low" HDR setting is broken. Either way, it needs to be looked into.

[gatordev 215]

Hoping someone can point me in the right direction...

 

I'm still having issues with the AMS optic showing a swirling gray/white pattern at the objective of the optic when viewed from either 3rd or 1st person.  When I look through the optic, it's completely fine.  It went away for a bit after APEX, but now it's been back for a while.  I've updated to the latest nVidia drivers and it's still there.  Anyone else seeing this?

[lsd 147]

Example of the vegetation popping following the update:

https://youtu.be/7dGhffCaTZk

 

Nvidia latest drivers, still present in DEV v1.65.138014

 

Far distance LODs seem OK, but nothing seems to have been done for the terrain vegetation, occurs on all islands.

[Vasily.B 529]

Example of the vegetation popping following the update:

https://youtu.be/7dGhffCaTZk

 

Nvidia latest drivers, still present in DEV v1.65.138014

 

Far distance LODs seem OK, but nothing seems to have been done for the terrain vegetation, occurs on all islands.

I have exacly same issue, i even reported it, nobody seems to care.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119285

[teabagginpeople 398]

I have exacly same issue, i even reported it, nobody seems to care.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119285

It's pretty damn offensive to ones eyes.

Glaring issue. Hopefully when devs are sunburned enough it'll be addressed.

[Dwarden 1124]

you do realize LOD issues aren't related to Visual Upgrade right ?