Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[roberthammer 582]

the camping lantern light breaks through the walls in houses  not only on tnaoa but altis as well

Engine issue , can't be fixed :(

[Variable 322]

we're aware of the nights being too dark (both moonlit and moonless) and we will aim to address that

(no ETA, no promise on previous line, this is way more complex task than simple tweak)

I'm sorry, but this is not reasonable. It's not reasonable to not promise this will be fixed since the impact on gameplay is so dramatic. If night gameplay (without turning your screen green) is not possible, then this whole new lighting should be reverted back. It's really not worth it without being able to play at night.

[andersson 285]

One problem/limitation which might be the reason the lightsources are tweaked to the weaker side is that walls and objects do not stop that. In OFP a car could light up a whole house, both inside and behind it. So in later games they tweaked the "power" down to make it less obvious. Now with the new lightning they need to re-tweak the values for sure, but they must hit the sweet spot between usability and obvious limitation.

[road runner 4344]

I'm sorry, but this is not reasonable. It's not reasonable to not promise this will be fixed since the impact on gameplay is so dramatic. If night gameplay (without turning your screen green) is not possible, then this whole new lighting should be reverted back. It's really not worth it without being able to play at night.

Speak for yourself, if they say they're going to fix it, they will, it's already been said it's a complex issue, and reverting back to the old lighting is a non starter at this stage of the release, yes the nights are overly dark, I don't know why you're so dead set against using NVG's, that's what they're used for, there's no Modern Armed Forces unit's in the 21st century that doesn't use some form of night vision.

ArmA is supposed to be a military simulation, so why dismiss having to use NVG's at night time, that's asinine, unless you're a life player, or survivalist player, which the game wasn't mean to recreate, others are quite happy to use NVG's if they're playing as combatants. Your post is very melodramatic, if you're playing as a squad, then using NVG's and IR lasers are how it happens in real life, no well trained Army fights at night without having some sort of advantage over the enemy, who's dug in, and well prepared.

Only a fool wouldn't take NVG's on night missions in real life.

 

[Varanon 892]

Only a fool wouldn't take NVG's on night missions in real life.

 

And this sentence alone shows that you do not understand the issue.

 

Military gameplay does not necessarily require the combatants to be regulars. Guerilla warfare was predominant in the East Wind campaign, and guerillas usually lack NVGs. Would you cut out all guerilla night missions ? They worked quite well before the change, but with the new lighting, they are next to impossible because you run around in the pitch black. Unrealistic pitch black. A full moon night is brighter than it currently is in Arma.

 

Even regular armies: If all goes as planned, you'd not fight at night without NVG. But what if it isn't ? What if a mission takes longer and you are cut off from your own lines. What if Montignac didn't fall and you are lost somewhere ? Are you honestly proposing to make such missions impossible just because it is difficult to adjust the night lighting to a decent level again ?

 

This has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Life player, or survival or whatever. Night, without NVG, is a core part of military gameplay, and the current impossible night lighting impacts this part of the Arma 3 gameplay, so sorry, it MUST BE FIXED.

[Alwarren 2767]

ArmA is supposed to be a military simulation, so why dismiss having to use NVG's at night time, that's asinine, unless you're a life player, or survivalist player, which the game wasn't mean to recreate,

 

He isn't a life player, and your comment is downright insulting. And wrong.

 

Play any FIA mission at night time, they do not have and should not have NVG's. No Russian unit (either RHS or CUP) has NVG's. There are a multitude of play styles and mission types, and all of them, even Altis Life which I myself wouldn't touch, have a right to be playable, and so far, HAVE been playable. Trying to defend the way that the nights look now on Altis by claiming "this is a military simulation" (funnily enough, I got barked at when I called the game a "simulation" and was corrected that it is an "authentic experience based on infantry combat"). is just trying to apologize for a bug.

 

Re-read Dwarden's statement: "we're aware of the nights being too dark (both moonlit and moonless) and we will aim to address that"

 

This acknowledges the issue. You don't have to come up with excuses for it.

 

Also, Tanoa has it fixed, and all of the CUP terrains have proper night lighting too. It's not rocket science.

 

It's funny that you start your comment with "speak for yourself" and then proceed to speak ONLY for yourself, and in the wake of it disclaim the rights for any other playstyle than your own to be playable.

 

I had thought you were a reasonable person from most of the posts I read from you.

[bullet purveyor 85]

"Speak for yourself"

"Only a fool wouldn't take NVG's on night missions in real life."

 

 

You tell others to speak for them self then claim your way of playing the game is the only right one, and all people who don't use NVs are idiots.

Is it possible to be more arrogant?

There is a myriad of missions and play styles where the use of NV/IR is completely out of place.

[road runner 4344]

He isn't a life player, and your comment is downright insulting. And wrong.

 

Play any FIA mission at night time, they do not have and should not have NVG's. No Russian unit (either RHS or CUP) has NVG's. There are a multitude of play styles and mission types, and all of them, even Altis Life which I myself wouldn't touch, have a right to be playable, and so far, HAVE been playable. Trying to defend the way that the nights look now on Altis by claiming "this is a military simulation" (funnily enough, I got barked at when I called the game a "simulation" and was corrected that it is an "authentic experience based on infantry combat"). is just trying to apologize for a bug.

 

Re-read Dwarden's statement: "we're aware of the nights being too dark (both moonlit and moonless) and we will aim to address that"

 

This acknowledges the issue. You don't have to come up with excuses for it.

 

Also, Tanoa has it fixed, and all of the CUP terrains have proper night lighting too. It's not rocket science.

 

It's funny that you start your comment with "speak for yourself" and then proceed to speak ONLY for yourself, and in the wake of it disclaim the rights for any other playstyle than your own to be playable.

 

I had thought you were a reasonable person from most of the posts I read from you.

Another one who only sees what he wants to see.

 

ArmA is supposed to be a military simulation, so why dismiss having to use NVG's at night time, that's asinine, unless you're a life player, or survivalist player, which the game wasn't mean to recreate,

Who said that part was directed at him? It was directed at ALL life players and survivalists who don't play as combatants, your own comments are every bit as insulting and WRONG!!!!!

 

 

Re-read Dwarden's statement: "we're aware of the nights being too dark (both moonlit and moonless) and we will aim to address that"

 I did read the comments you're directing this at the wrong person, you need to direct it towards variable, who failed to acknowledge that it's not a simple fix, or did you just skim over that part yourself? 

 

 

 

This acknowledges the issue. You don't have to come up with excuses for it.

There was no excuses given, only a rehash of that statement that it's not a simple fix, and it takes time. If you cared to have actually red through your red mist, you would actually also have read I agreed the nights were overly dark.

 

 

Also, Tanoa has it fixed, and all of the CUP terrains have proper night lighting too. It's not rocket science.

 And it's taken since the 1st of June when the original comment was mate by Dwarden, that it wasn't a simple fix, it's now the 22nd, 3 weeks, and things have improved as you have rightly pointed out, so do you have a point to make?

 

 

It's funny that you start your comment with "speak for yourself" and then proceed to speak ONLY for yourself, and in the wake of it disclaim the rights for any other playstyle than your own to be playable.

 Indeed That's up to other people as to what game styles they want, no question about that, and that style requires various addons, and isn't part of the vanilla game, again do you have a point?

 

 

I had thought you were a reasonable person from most of the posts I read from you.

 I'm as reasonable as the next man, I just don't like hyperbole and melodramatics, or reading the same thing over and over and over again, when that issue has been acknowledged ad nauseam.  

[road runner 4344]

You tell others to speak for them self then claim your way of playing the game is the only right one, and all people who don't use NVs are idiots.

Is it possible to be more arrogant?

There is a myriad of missions and play styles where the use of NV/IR is completely out of place.

 Did you even bother reading the part that says ""Only a fool wouldn't take NVG's on night missions in real life." ??

You say that's arrogant? I'd say that if you were one of my Soldiers and you didn't take your NVG's out on a mission, on real time, real life operations, you'd be in a world of shit.

I wasn't talking about a game, I was talking about actual combat operations, where the bullets are real, and when you're dead you're dead, nothing arrogant about it, it's called Planning and Preparation, and having the tools required for that mission, I guess you've never served in the Armed Forces, if you couldn't distinguish the part that said "real life" as opposed to "in the game" ?

[Antilochos 106]

People, we had this discussion before already. Some people like the new nights and some don't. I don't think anyone can convince the other of thinking differrent, so don't bother. It's getting old and all we can do is give our own opinion directed towards BIS and wait what they make of it.

At least, that's my point of view...

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Since when is CUP's night lighting improved? Did I miss an update?

[BL4DE 91]

One problem/limitation which might be the reason the lightsources are tweaked to the weaker side is that walls and objects do not stop that. In OFP a car could light up a whole house, both inside and behind it. So in later games they tweaked the "power" down to make it less obvious. Now with the new lightning they need to re-tweak the values for sure, but they must hit the sweet spot between usability and obvious limitation.

 

It does make me angry that the engine is so limited and crappy in so many ways. Still the same OFP just with shiny graphics. Physics suck, colission sucks, one threaded performance sucks, still 32-bit program, action menu should die, interacting with objects sucks.....

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

People, we had this discussion before already. Some people like the new nights and some don't. I don't think anyone can convince the other of thinking differrent, so don't bother. It's getting old and all we can do is give our own opinion directed towards BIS and wait what they make of it.

At least, that's my point of view...

 

It's not a question of liking, Dwarden acknowledged the night is broken.

[icebreakr 3157]

Only a fool wouldn't take NVG's on night missions in real life.

 

 

Yeah, they are so easy to come by in a war torn country where you're fighting a superior enemy...

 

About the night visibility - can be fixed by tweaking configs, I think greenberet40 had a config preset that made nights very bright, even ones with no full moon present.

[roshnak 41]

I'm sorry, but this is not reasonable. It's not reasonable to not promise this will be fixed since the impact on gameplay is so dramatic. If night gameplay (without turning your screen green) is not possible, then this whole new lighting should be reverted back. It's really not worth it without being able to play at night.

 

It's entirely reasonable. BIS seems to have (rightfully) learned not to promise anything until it's either finished or very near finished.

[Variable 322]

if they say they're going to fix it, they will,

But they didn't, they said "no promise". Does that fit the definition of "they will fix it" for you?

 

it's already been said it's a complex issue, and reverting back to the old lighting is a non starter at this stage of the release, yes the nights are overly dark, I don't know why you're so dead set against using NVG's, that's what they're used for, there's no Modern Armed Forces unit's in the 21st century that doesn't use some form of night vision.

Maybe you play the game only as a member of "modern armed force unit", but a lot of Arma players play also as, for example, guerrillas or insurgents, that do not have access to night-vision equipment. I play a lot as both regular military and non-regular. Try it sometime, it's a lot of fun, I assure you :)

Also some weapon sights are not NVG compatible, and lot of very popular mods recreate WW2 or Vietnam scenarios. Sure, those are not the vanilla game, but you can see there's a strong demand for other, non-NVG, scenarios.

 

ArmA is supposed to be a military simulation, so why dismiss having to use NVG's at night time, that's asinine, unless you're a life player, or survivalist player, which the game wasn't mean to recreate,

The next Tanoa campaign is going to use local insurgents. Want to bet whether or not they'll have NVGs? Or do you suggest that we shouldn't play these units, just play against them?

If so, that's a very narrow view of Arma. Of course, you are free to play the game as you see fit, but don't dismiss other, and very common, play styles.

 

others are quite happy to use NVG's if they're playing as combatants.

I'm not against using NVGs, I am against being FORCED to play with NVGs due to overly and unrealistically dark nights, even in full moon.

 

Speak for yourself

I am, and I speak in the favor of all players who'd like to see the night lighting fixed on Altis and Stratis. You seem to speak only for those who play only as an organised military unit. Who do you think represent more players?

It seems to me that after removing the false justifications from your post we are left only with:

"I play only with NVGs so I don't care how dark the night is, and I don't like melodramatic posts"

[Varanon 892]

 reading the same thing over and over and over again, when that issue has been acknowledged ad nauseam.  

 

I don't like reading the same issue over and over again either, but yeah, it has been acknowledge, but at the same time it has been said that it might not get fixed. That's definitely something that requires "user action"

[Alwarren 2767]

And it's taken since the 1st of June when the original comment was mate by Dwarden, that it wasn't a simple fix, it's now the 22nd, 3 weeks, and things have improved as you have rightly pointed out, so do you have a point to make?

It's been like that on Tanoa for a while, and it is a simple config fix, as you surely know... You DO know it, don't you?

[road runner 4344]

It's been like that on Tanoa for a while, and it is a simple config fix, as you surely know... You DO know it, don't you?

 You do know that the majority of the dark nights ( I'm sure there's a pun in there somewhere) complaints are about the other maps, including ported ones, and it's taken a couple of weeks to start seeing some changes for the better.

I'm patient, there's no point in constantly going over the same issues, such as this one, especially as it's been addressed, and if they (BiS) say they're going to fix it, I have to accept their word, what else can I do? spit my dummy out and stamp my feet and make demands that it's fixed before everything else is fixed, and behave like a spoiled child?

Patience is a virtue, some exercise it more than others.

 

 

[Vasily.B 529]

For everyone - CUP terrain have fixed lighting, added CWR maps, enjoy and leave this endless discussion please.

[Varanon 892]

especially as it's been addressed

Which part of "don't know if it it's going to be fixed" sounds as if the problem is being addressed ?

 

And can you please post without insulting others every time ? I grow tired of such things as well, not only repeated discussions.

[road runner 4344]

Which part of "don't know if it it's going to be fixed" sounds as if the problem is being addressed ?

 

And can you please post without insulting others every time ? I grow tired of such things as well, not only repeated discussions.

 

 

 

Alwarren said

It's been like that on Tanoa for a while, and it is a simple config fix, as you surely know... You DO know it, don't you?

 

You should start reading what others have posted and perhaps start singing off the same song sheet, so which is it? It's a simple config fix, which apparently has been on Tanoa for a while, and is now starting to work with other ported maps, or it's not working and dwarden's comments are bearing fruit, and thats it's more complex, as he stated.

By asking for patience isn't insulting, by making a statement that's factual, that people have been throwing teddies and spitting dummies, and making demands, isn't insulting, when it's been happening, and well you know it.

There's two groups here, the ones who are content with the way BiS are slowly getting issues sorted, and happy to plod on, and wait and then there's the ones who bring up the issues, repeatedly, despite the issue has been acknowledged, and are getting irate. 

It will be fixed when it's fixed, nothing anyone else can do, apart from create their own configs to fix the broken maps, and wait till a BiS solution comes along.

Do you have other suggestions that could expedite the fix?

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

road runner, you should understand that we will come back in this thread everyday until the night lightning is fixed.

Many issues were acknowledged, like no ponds, AI driving nuts, middle range texture, AI pathfinding...Etc Some have been fixed, some are WIP (eg AI driving), some have not been touch at all (based on public communication from BI) after 3 years.

Many of those issues have woarkarounds (either by mod, script or just by clever mission making understanding the issue being faced).

Broken night is just a no go. It's breaking too many missions/scenario/gameplay style. I was not an issue last month, it was easy to detect, it should not have been sent to prod in its current implementation. No amount of "be patient" will make the "it needs to be fixed now" go. In fact, you're producing the exact opposite effect: each time you try to explain us we should accept the situation as it is, a different poster is coming to tell this is not acceptable, fueling this endless discussion that will only end when BI fixes the night.

[NoPOW 59]

[...] this endless discussion that will only end when BI fixes the night.

 

In the mean time, here's something for you to read: http://www.google.nl/search?q=entitlement

 

[Variable 322]

You are still going?

...and making demands

I made no demand, enough with the false exaggerations. All I did was express my opinion, that it is not reasonable to keep the night lighting problem unfixed. That's no demand, that's a voice of opinion, it's not against any rule. Do you think it would be reasonable to remove your precious high-tech NVGs and state that "we are aware of the NVG being broken, but make no promises to fix it"? No? Then I don't think breaking this game's night is reasonable. I am entitled for an opinion, and I don't need your permission to voice it. So how about removing your homemade moderator hat you made for yourself?