AI Discussion (dev branch)

[haleks 8212]

Agreed, especially with those :

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

The last one being a huge pain in the ass : right now it's impossible to set up the simplest convoy mission.

[Variable 322]

Posting related tickets. Guys, please vote these as all of them completely break a lot of coop and SP scenarios. BIS, please, someone needs to see the bigger picture and realize how these bugs completely prevent very common Arma 3 scenarios. A lot of effort was put into adding Arma with lovely scenarios involving UAVs and underwater scenarios only to make those scenarios impossible due to these bugs. Given all the implementation effort that was made, I don't understand why these bugs are not given high priority.

UAV explode on startup:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=14461

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

This bug breaks most underwater scenarios (no point in inserting submerged if the enemy can see through the water)!!!

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=18851

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=18986

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

Breaks most of the convoy ambush missions!!!

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21361

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

Affects all heliborne insertions.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15730

[oukej 2911]

Thx for the list and FT links guys!

i'll put some notes to them:

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

I'm sorry for this. Although underwater is a new tech to A3 and still undoubtedly plagued by multiple issues we are currently allocating our resources to issues that have been present or missing & requested since older Arma titles or are affecting the game in more major gameplay situations. (e.g. the AI driving and disobedience of the AI)

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

Does this apply only to mines or explosives placed on a road or also those that are placed on a different surface? Does this apply also to the official terrains? (the mine visibility depends on the surface configuration)

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

In 2035 the IFF transponder is connected to every vehicle's ignition ;)

Although we're not satisfied with the current status of radar mechanics in the game and can acknowledge that an overhaul is more or less necessary, as for now there's no schedule on it. So I'd leave this open. But exactly what you've described could be feasible for some tuning/hotfixing, can't tell now. A repro would be welcome (FT ticket could be linked to http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10323 )

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

Nah, I wouldn't say the are inept ;) I'd say the AI pilots are now quite remarkable when it comes to transporting tasks and especially recently they've become incredibly safe and reliable at it. That's more than some, maybe even most of the devs here ;)

Putting a limited speed WP before the landing helps, but they still need to gain some altitude to land without hitting any structure nearby.

The amount of flaring required to bleed the speed is also affected by the helicopter's SFM configuration. Sadly we can't currently improve the descend rates (http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=1970).

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

This has been worked on and we already seem to have some promising improvements. Stay tuned

- AI under player control is extremely slow to react to commands. A human team leader's orders should seriously be followed without questioning. If I order my AI to get into a vehicle, they should do that without doing their usual "run-go prone-get up-run" routine.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3920

Repro missions are definitely more than welcome. The more standard gameplay situations we can cover in isolated repro missions the better the solution will be.

[seba1976 98]

Nah, I wouldn't say the are inept ;) I'd say the AI pilots are now quite remarkable when it comes to transporting tasks and especially recently they've become incredibly safe and reliable at it. That's more than some, maybe even most of the devs here ;)

Putting a limited speed WP before the landing helps, but they still need to gain some altitude to land without hitting any structure nearby.

The amount of flaring required to bleed the speed is also affected by the helicopter's SFM configuration. Sadly we can't currently improve the descend rates

Woudn't it be possible to add some logic to the AI pilot, that makes him reduce some collective when the helicopter starts gaining altitude during the final approach? As it is now, it really seems the AI just don't take into account the assigned fly altitude, when they need to slow down the aircraft.

[DancZer 65]

Is this a bug or an engine limitation? The AI use the ladder as a cover in danger behavior. You can test it in the support showcase. Some "dontUseAsCover" property would welcome here. :)

Game version: 1.36

p.s.: he also start crawling under the obstacle. :D

[faire 10]

Thanks for the info, Oukej! I am sure more news will be welcome as they come ;)

[danil-ch 165]

The AI use the ladder as a cover in danger behavior.

They also use road signs as a cover. :D

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Why do UAV briefly disappear into the ground when it first becomes local?

At 3 seconds:

KYSsjtdmJCs

[DancZer 65]

They also use road signs as a cover. :D

I've thought that, but never tested. Thanks the confirmation. Does this issue has a ticket?

[danil-ch 165]

Does this issue has a ticket?

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16449

[old_painless 182]

<snip>

we are currently allocating our resources to issues that have been present or missing & requested since older Arma titles or are affecting the game in more major gameplay situations. (e.g. the AI driving and disobedience of the AI)

[on driving] This has been worked on and we already seem to have some promising improvements. Stay tuned

Halleluja! Splendid work being done by Top Men. Best posting in a long time

[Variable 322]

Thanks for the response Oukej!

Does this apply only to mines or explosives placed on a road or also those that are placed on a different surface? Does this apply also to the official terrains? (the mine visibility depends on the surface configuration)

The problem exists on both roads and different surfaces. The biggest two problems are AI ability to detect mines/explosives on roads during the night, and AI ability to detect AP mines in grass (both cases without mine detectors).

On road: In several instances we had AI driving at night on a road and detecting mines placed on it. Now before anyone jumps and say "if they had their lights on they should detect it". Well, no, Because we can't camouflage the explosives with leaves or anything of that sort as you would in real life. I think that as long as the AI is not in Danger mode, they shouldn't detect mines placed on the roads unless the conditions are perfect - line of sight + full daylight + explosive placed right in the middle of the road. To illustrate, the current condition makes the Slam anti-vehicle mine completely useless.

Offroad: We had instances where AI detected AP mines in grass, with no light at all (no mine detectors or NVGs were used).

[Alwarren 2767]

It seems to be indeed more prone to happen with custom terrains, at least with a quick test I did

[krycek 349]

Oukej,do you guys plan to implement some sort of hover command for AI attack choppers to prevent them flying over their enemies(and dropping like bricks because of said enemies)?Any army would go bankrupt at the rate of attack chopper losses in A3(and A1 or A2 in the past).:p

Regarding AI driving,BI devs please look at this video.This guy has a pretty neat idea for AI vehicles getting stuck,they also break their wheels quite easily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcBAPpKxaNw&feature=youtu.be

[f2k sel 164]

I've often thought the AI vehicles try and use rocks and trees ect for cover as that's what it looks like. Or whatever routine they use to make the vehicle avoid such obstacles is actually doing the opposite and tuning them into the objects.

[x3kj 1247]

Is anyone else annoyed by the strange AI turn-out/turn-in behaviour for vehicle crew?

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21986

[Tyl3r99 41]

can someone on dev branch please test this? http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22046

i dont have the internet speed to keep switching :(

if it still happens can you comment on the ticket, "still happens on latest dev branch" or something like that :)

thanks guys

[dnk 13]

Quick question to the non-devs:

Currently (stable), what are fairly realistic AI accuracy settings? Something that puts them roughly on-par with human players (accounting for the players being non-PvP twitch-gods)?

I could do 1 hour of testing, but I figure some here have gone through all that already and can quickly relate their experience.

[Variable 322]

Quick question to the non-devs:

Currently (stable), what are fairly realistic AI accuracy settings? Something that puts them roughly on-par with human players (accounting for the players being non-PvP twitch-gods)?

I could do 1 hour of testing, but I figure some here have gone through all that already and can quickly relate their experience.

For a medium difficulty level, I recommend these settings:

skillAI=0.6;

precisionAI=0.3;

aiLevelPreset=3;

Edited December 14, 2014 by Variable

[Jona33 51]

Is it just me or have AI got better with AT recently, I've been testing a mission and when telling an squadmate to use his AT he usually does it in a timely manner, he's even done it on his own initiative as well!

[dnk 13]

For a medium difficulty level, I recommend these settings:

skillAI=0.6;

precisionAI=0.3;

aiLevelPreset=3;

Thanks.

[alky_lee 279]

Is it just me or have AI got better with AT recently, I've been testing a mission and when telling an squadmate to use his AT he usually does it in a timely manner, he's even done it on his own initiative as well!

I have noticed for a while that you can no longer use a tank to attack infantry if they are armed with AT, especially if you are relying on an AI crew in the gunner & commander positions. The infantry will disable the tank before they get taken out. They will also engage from 1.5 - 2km away once they become aware of the tank. That's why we need tank rounds that damage/kill the infantry, otherwise the tank will not survive to get in range to engage with it's machine guns effectively

[seba1976 98]

I have noticed for a while that you can no longer use a tank to attack infantry if they are armed with AT, especially if you are relying on an AI crew in the gunner & commander positions. The infantry will disable the tank before they get taken out. They will also engage from 1.5 - 2km away once they become aware of the tank. That's why we need tank rounds that damage/kill the infantry, otherwise the tank will not survive to get in range to engage with it's machine guns effectively

What's the situation IRL? Because AFAIK, AT infantry (specially with guided rockets) are a very serious threat to armoured vehicles.

[kremator 1065]

I have noticed for a while that you can no longer use a tank to attack infantry if they are armed with AT, especially if you are relying on an AI crew in the gunner & commander positions. The infantry will disable the tank before they get taken out. They will also engage from 1.5 - 2km away once they become aware of the tank. That's why we need tank rounds that damage/kill the infantry, otherwise the tank will not survive to get in range to engage with it's machine guns effectively

They are called HE rounds and we already have them!

Unless a tank commander KNOWS there is no AT about he will not cross open terrain. Sticking to urban areas is a little safer in some respects, death around the corners in others - so you send infantry ahead of you, using the tank to take out fortified positions that the infantry cannot tackle without casualties.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Hi guys,

Doing some AI scripting for a small holiday scenario.

Is there any command(set) which will cause the AI drivers to NOT leave the road under any circumstances?

Say, I set waypoint #1 on a road, and waypoint #2 on a road. How can I ensure the AI driver does not be sneaky and attempt shortcut. I want him to stay on the road, no matter what. Any ideas?

I am not interested in dividing the journey into smaller waypoint distances, would rather put up with the offroad driving than quadruple the number of waypoints.