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No I haven't, please do tell why it's good to take the player off of controlling his own weapon?

To make weapon selection "something"?

Right now, why you would use a pistol or SMG over a DMR in CQB? No reason at all.

And it's not taking control off the player nor an "artificial disadvantage" because, well, that IS how real world works, isn't it?

Really funny to see these discussions about this or that on a thorical level when it was done multiple times in other titles, AND IT WORKED!

So, you haven't played America's Army, R6 Raven Shield, SWAT4, RO2 and all other that made this with great success without spawning raging users? Don't think so.

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Bullets have been fired from the chamber since OFP.

Edit: Misread. Short version, weapon collision sucked in A2. I'm sure other titles did it better.

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To make weapon selection "something"?

Right now, why you would use a pistol or SMG over a DMR in CQB? No reason at all.

And it's not taking control off the player nor an "artificial disadvantage" because, well, that IS how real world works, isn't it?

Really funny to see these discussions about this or that on a thorical level when it was done multiple times in other titles, AND IT WORKED!

Well, IRL if I had a pistol and I was up against someone with a machinegun in a building, I would NOT feel confident :)

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This clipping issue and no weight is a step in the wrong direction. One of the "cater to mainstream" decisions from BIS that scares me.

In arma2 I never had a problem handling long heavy weapons in doorways. Maybe because I use 100% freezone and trackIR, thus enabling me to lower my weapon and still keep my visual awareness. Ofcourse a shorter lighter weapon was always a better more agile choice as it was easier to get the sight on target. As it should be. No need for weapon specific limitation-lower-anims if the weapons handles differently. A long sniperrifle will be more cumbersome than a MP5.

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Well, IRL if I had a pistol and I was up against someone with a machinegun in a building, I would NOT feel confident :)

If that dude with a machinegun was turning into or out of a room, I'd feel confident. Confident that his slow ass wouldn't be able to maneuver that MG in time for me to kill him.

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Well, IRL if I had a pistol and I was up against someone with a machinegun in a building, I would NOT feel confident :)

Even more when that dude can shoulder his big ass MG all day long, huh?

But what this has to do with the issue at hand?

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Guys don't miss the main point: there's a lot more than just clipping/CQB at stake.

There's Cover and AI logic and a whole new dimension to the game for the player, but in order to change that, we need postural adjustments and auto-lower weapon has got to be done.

That weapon must become a physical entity in the engine so it doesn't clip through walls, rocks, ridges, vehicles (and other soldiers eh eh eh) but if you do that without the autolower feature, players will go crazy: We'd find ourselves no longer shooting at objects but actually unable to aim at all (rifle no clip = mouse no aim!).

None of this makes any sense without posture adjustment. As OMAC says Crysis 2 has that and I recall Vietcong used to have that too (I think it was the "inventor" of the use of shooting from cover). I think the postural adjustment is going to be a very hard one to tackle but it's well worth the trouble because of those consequences I mentioned.

We want to be in that doorway under cover, all you need in that case is the lean button and auto-lower will do the rest for you but with postural adjustment, even the corner of a tank, the hole in a turret hatch, a tree branch, anything may become cover from which you can shoot using the same logic: button to press/release.

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We have 'postural adjustment.' It's called the bloody stance system. There's not much difference between that and Cyrysis, just a few centimeters. And it works fine.

And people have already ported a weapon barrel collision mod from ArmA 2, which automatically lowers the weapon when there is clipping. This allows you to fluidly step through doorways at the expense of becoming momentarily defenseless.

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To make weapon selection "something"?

That's exactly what weapon collision and inertia would do, and the reasons you'd choose the right weapons would be exactly the same as in real life.

Right now, why you would use a pistol or SMG over a DMR in CQB? No reason at all.

That's what we are trying to solve here.

And it's not taking control off the player nor an "artificial disadvantage" because, well, that IS how real world works, isn't it?

If the game automatically lowers my weapon even if I don't want it to, it is taking me off the control of my weapon, right?

In real life NOTHING lowers your weapon for you, you do it yourself.

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If the game automatically lowers my weapon even if I don't want it to, it is taking me off the control of my weapon, right?

In real life NOTHING lowers your weapon for you, you do it yourself.

Do you want a button for inhale/exhale too?

Experience tells us that having to lower your weapon manually is death to CQB. It's instinctive and fluid for real humans and gamebreakingly clunky for virtual avatars. This was the overwhelming consensus in A2 days.

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If the game automatically lowers my weapon even if I don't want it to, it is taking me off the control of my weapon, right?

In real life NOTHING lowers your weapon for you, you do it yourself.

Of course you move your gun yourself in real life. But imagine moving sideways through a doorway with a long gun pointing forward. You YOURSELF will turn the gun AUTOMATICALLY down/up or to the side to not get stuck in the wall. It should work like that in the game too. The instant there's room for weapon to raise back up, it will. While speed of it should depend on the weapon type.

Implementing this officially would need a whole lot of work to function reliably, not triggering where it shouldn't for instance. Therefore it's most unlikely to get done in A3.

(By the way, some wise man in the original post said something like this "Sometimes it's useful to discuss updates to the Steam Development branch in one centralized place. Let's use this thread for that."

This discussion is looking an awful a lot like a wish list.)

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A compromise, large guns like sniper rifles and MGs auto drop if the barrel would clip through a building, small guns like PDWs/small rifles/pistols don't. They'd sort of have the players arms move backward to provide enough room for the gun.

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A compromise, large guns like sniper rifles and MGs auto drop if the barrel would clip through a building, small guns like PDWs/small rifles/pistols don't. They'd sort of have the players arms move backward to provide enough room for the gun.

But then you get stuck when you sidestep through a doorway, since you can't back up.

All weapons should lower automatically, but there should be a clunking noise to warn you, and perhaps a bit of a grace period. So you can scrape the muzzle around and maybe have it clip for a few centimeters.

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Of course you move your gun yourself in real life. But imagine moving sideways through a doorway with a long gun pointing forward. You YOURSELF will turn the gun AUTOMATICALLY down/up or to the side to not get stuck in the wall. It should work like that in the game too. The instant there's room for weapon to raise back up, it will. While speed of it should depend on the weapon type.

Implementing this officially would need a whole lot of work to function reliably, not triggering where it shouldn't for instance. Therefore it's most unlikely to get done in A3.

emphasis mine

God damn, english isn't my main language and I easily miss details, like the bolded part above :icon_redface:

That I would be very happy with, so when, and only when the gun is colliding with something, it gets lowered until clear again.

Sorry about rambling like a proper idiot fellas :banghead:

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in Arma 2 you got more stuck with pistol than a rifle. Weapon collision really didn't worked at all in Arma 2.

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We have 'postural adjustment.' It's called the bloody stance system. There's not much difference between that and Cyrysis, just a few centimeters. And it works fine.

And people have already ported a weapon barrel collision mod from ArmA 2, which automatically lowers the weapon when there is clipping. This allows you to fluidly step through doorways at the expense of becoming momentarily defenseless.

This is not something you can leave to the mods, it takes a rework of the AI logics to make them use the cover they don't use now, furthenmore the stance system needs specific animations. I haven't seen Crysis nor the 2 mods you mentioned but even if those animations were present, that still need a lot of AI work on logics and rebalancing by tuning down the aim.

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Sure but why lose Dexterity settings effect so much? As keen as i am to see new fatigue system out soon, i think the handling speed would also help ensure weapons load outs chosen for specific reasons other than to have all the firepower.

It's a selfish reason as well as i like having different types of weapons handle differently from each other, it's a small yet added bit of immersion that adds up to a way bigger thing. And having bis set that means most mods will at least inherit the default values.

Oh, and bipods and weapon resting of course. Please.

Edited by twisted

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We want to be in that doorway under cover, all you need in that case is the lean button and auto-lower will do the rest for you but with postural adjustment, even the corner of a tank, the hole in a turret hatch, a tree branch, anything may become cover from which you can shoot using the same logic: button to press/release.

This was covered ad nauseum long ago, do a search for "cover system", most people at that time did not want it.

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With a pistol in CQB, you'd sometimes bend your elbows upwards when in a tight spot, not just lower your arms.

I can't remember which game, but I swear I've seen auto-lowering of a weapon when clipping would occur in a tight spot. Maybe it was Crysis and/or Crysis 2?

But frankly, I highly doubt that anything we have been discussing in the last 5 pages will get implemented in A3. These are very core engine elements, and I'll bet such things were locked down very early on. Hopefully I am wrong. It's ironic that they got rid of clipping to make the game more "accessible" to COD/BF kids, but never implemented the shotgun! Even Doom and Quake had shotguns, ferchriisake! Remember that very, very early A3 video in which Marek (I think) was demonstrating how they were developing code for shotgun pellet spread? Long gone. But I'd MUCH rather have bipods and weapon resting than shotguns! :)

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Maybe it was Crysis and/or Crysis 2?

Crysis, far cry 3, call of juarez. There is more

...

Edited by Danil-ch

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Those 40mm grenades should not bounce at all , because they are designed to explode on impact

sure there exist bouncing variant like russian GP25 grenade , but on vehicles its nonsense

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What does the current conversation have to do with reality? Or the development branch?

Back on topic please, and enough with the newb complaints.

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What does the current conversation have to do with reality? Or the development branch?

Pretty much nothing - therefore I have moved the clipping discussion to its own thread.

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That's odd, I just got a small update to the dev branch like a minute ago.

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