General Discussion (dev branch)

[TSAndrey 1]

A "sixty people" team has done a lot less in 3 years than an even smaller team on DayZ SA in less than one. In fact "sixty people" mostly broke it and keep doing it as evidenced by the latest patch which makes one man armies absolutely unrestricted. And if it's not deliberate then the only other explanation - is, again, the lack of programmers.

Not true. The biggest change DayZ SA has made is the new netcode. A3 has far more new changes...

[nikiforos 450]

I notice a lot of negativity in the forums and unfortunately it's contagious.

I have great respect for the developers but there are some things that can't be avoided to get noticed.

[dmarkwick 261]

Except not on ArmA3. Haven't you been following the news?

When Dean Hall himself says DayZ SA got a lot more improvements in 1 year over ArmA3 - there's nothing much to add.

DayZ SA even gets vastly improved VON while we are stuck with the horrible 2001 version of it till this day. And people have been asking to improve it for at least 4 years (at least as evidenced by DH ticket that is stuck in "assigned" since 2009)

Just how often are you going to post these crying responses? :)

[metalcraze 290]

Far more new changes: DX11 renderer. Underwater combat gimmick that nobody plays with. Gimmicky 3D scopes. Anims (that DayZ also gets). And that's it. In 3 years.

DayZ SA - massive engine architecture changes incl. netcode, radio system a la ACRE replacing our horrible VON, advanced injury and medic system among other -gameplay- features. But hey at least we got DX11.

Just how often are you going to post these crying responses? :)

Dunno. I care way too much about the only tactical shooter left on the market and it gets dumbed down more with every patch.

Guess I'll either stop caring and stick to ArmA2 or get banned for my complaints, whichever comes first.

[Tyl3r99 41]

apparently there will be another update today?? is this true or am I hearing fibs

[chortles 263]

Except not on ArmA3. Haven't you been following the news?

When Dean Hall himself says DayZ SA got a lot more improvements in 1 year over ArmA3 - there's nothing much to add.

DayZ SA even gets vastly improved VON while we are stuck with the horrible 2001 version of it till this day that has crap sound quality and also tends to lag servers to death when several people are talking at once. And people have been asking to improve it for at least 4 years (at least as evidenced by DH ticket that is stuck in "assigned" since 2009)

Again: That's all dependent on how much you believe any of what Rocket says about the standalone's (actual) capabilities as opposed to merely his ambitions... NouberNou had his own take a month ago re: VON.

Far more new changes: DX11 renderer. Underwater combat gimmick that nobody plays with. Gimmicky 3D scopes. Anims (that DayZ also gets). And that's it. In 3 years.

DayZ SA - massive engine architecture changes incl. netcode, radio system a la ACRE replacing our horrible VON, advanced injury and medic system among other -gameplay- features. But hey at least we got DX11.

From what I've seen, Rocket has been obsessive about the architecture changes, and that "breaks EVERYTHING", to say nothing of locking down the game so hard that DnA deemed it unacceptable for Arma 3. What I've gotten the sense of is that DayZ may be alloted that kind of time... Arma 3, not (nearly) so much.

As for underwater combat, somehow I think "the dev behind it does, that's why it happened", while the 3D scopes seem like they happened just to throw something of a bone at the obsessive demand for Red Orchestra-style scopes because the fans for that wouldn't shut up.

[Minoza 11]

So you want them to put away enterable buildings with doors, because you cannot see your hand reachin the door and open it? You want them to put away drivable cars and flyable planes, because you cannot really see doors opening and you jumping in?

I doubt so.

Lets see, doors open when I open them. Is it so weird that I expect to see bipod deploying when I deploy it?

Edited July 10, 2013 by Minoza

[Alwarren 2767]

I get your drift, though I suppose what I was trying to convey was "with only so many programmers, hard choices will be made and someone's going to lose out." Though admittedly neither "lack of programmers" nor "zero-sum decision-making" seems to directly explain to me removal of features that were already implemented in Arma 3 and even publicly presented as such, as opposed to "announced in 2011 or 2013 but then never showed up in public alpha or beta" (because that I just chalk up to early overambitiousness)...

Well you can argue that with "only so many programmers, hard choices will be made", but that sounds more like an excuse. The fact that it was already announced in 2011 and that first pictures/videos where shown then which looked remarkably like what we got now only reinforces the notion that there aren't enough programmers working on it, which does make things appear like being on the backburner.

Let me point out the rain again, a feature that was removed and is currently up in the air on whether it returns or not.

Let me point out the briefing/map access to loadout, a feature that is currently up in the air on t returns or not.

These are features that are removed from the game in spite of earlier reassurance that nothing will get removed.

At the same time, features like the openable doors get removed because they want to do them right or not at all.

I cannot help but wonder why so many things get the axe. And I could mention the 3D editor, which was prominently announced on a 2011 E3 feature, so I will: The 3D Editor was announced prominently as a feature in the 2011 E3 presentation, and has since gotten the axe.

Now, I don't think that BIS are amateurs, and that they just had no clue as to how long these things take. I am quite sure they know. But with Arma 3 being in development for such a long time, by a supposedly 70 men team, and still features ranging from the mundane to the essential getting the axe, this looks to me like there is a distinctive lack of resources for this project, and seeing what kind of features get axed, it seems to be that programmers are among those.

Which is, as I said originally, a very alarming thing. Because, I am starting to wonder how important this game still is for BIS.

[twisted 128]

You can disable a blur part of the fatigue visual effect if you want, that's all. It's just hotfix and any other negative consequences weren't removed.

.

thank you for taking the time to answer, it wasn't expected but it is appreciated.

And with all due respect, I'd suggest try running for a couple minutes (holding sprint down and run up and down hills all you want for at least 1km or more depending on your patience level) and then immediately stop, hold breath in game (right mouse button) and take a few aimed shots. its accurate enough to shoot the balls off a dog at 200m - even further if you have a scope on. thanks

[chortles 263]

Think about it this way, twisted: the feedback on the visual blur was noticeably more lopsided than that on the other fatigue effects, so it's pretty clear which looked like the easiest (read: most player base consensus) tweak to make.

Though I will note, as I believe that I told -Coulum- in the weapon sway tweaking thread, that without zooming and holding breath I can't even get a sight picture at 200 meters...

@ Alwarren: As I told metalcraze, my general rule is "if it was promised in 2011, it doesn't count, and if it was promised in 2012 it probably doesn't count". I want to be clear that I distinguish between those (including whatever was shown in builds those years) and the public alpha and public beta this year.

Incidentally, the 3D editor was axed under the prior project lead well before the change in project leads... though thinking back on the Steamworks announcement, DnA seemed to pretty much imply that development had run into underlying issues even before the turn of the year (and possibly before the Greek incident).

Edited July 10, 2013 by Chortles

[TSAndrey 1]

Let me point out the rain again, a feature that was removed and is currently up in the air on whether it returns or not.

Let me point out the briefing/map access to loadout, a feature that is currently up in the air on t returns or not.

None ever said that rain or map access to loadout will be removed. They are likely going to be in the final release

[maddogx 13]

Let me point out the rain again, a feature that was removed and is currently up in the air on whether it returns or not.

Let me point out the briefing/map access to loadout, a feature that is currently up in the air on t returns or not.

These are features that are removed from the game in spite of earlier reassurance that nothing will get removed.

I don't know about the gear selection, but as far as rain is concerned it was confirmed (by RiE I think) that a new implementation is on the way. In any case, it's a little premature to claim anything has been removed or "gotten the axe" until it is actually confirmed.

That's not to say that BIS haven't been making some rather questionable decisions lately. Removing the old rain before the new rain is implemented was an especially bad one, in my opinion.

Also, adding the openable doors on the Ifrit only to remove them a few days later because of priority issues... should have been avoided, to say the least. All of this gives the appearance that they haven't got their priorities straight.

[dmarkwick 261]

Let me point out the rain again, a feature that was removed and is currently up in the air on whether it returns or not.

I see this happening a lot here, because something hasn't been explicitly mentioned recently by a dev, the assumption is that it's being ignored or dropped or will remain in this state forever, and/or has been deliberately nerfed for accessibility to new players or whatever.

In the case of the rain for example, it has been explicitly told to us that it is being reworked. It is not "up in the air whether it returns or not".

[GranolaBar 10]

apparently there will be another update today?? is this true or am I hearing fibs

LOL You stop, 99% of your post here was update ? update ? update ? ... it's not a trolling topic.

For rain, high command and more, we must waiting the end of the beta or the final game, it's just in two month :)

For a beta or a alpha, we have a lot more content than the majority of games who were releasing.

FOR THE DEVELOPPEMENT BRANCH, Dev have functions than we must test, not all the functions were be using in the final game, don't lost to remember that !!

[roberthammer 582]

I wish i know their priorities and plans - hehe

Before the DayZSA, the arma 3 team was bigger and stable - atm they got split because Dean needs them - which is very sad for arma

[maddogx 13]

I see this happening a lot here, because something hasn't been explicitly mentioned recently by a dev, the assumption is that it's being ignored or dropped or will remain in this state forever, and/or has been deliberately nerfed for accessibility to new players or whatever.

In the case of the rain for example, it has been explicitly told to us that it is being reworked. It is not "up in the air whether it returns or not".

This just goes to show that communication is key. Whenever something is removed without a clear statement about the reasoning behind it, people instantly assume it has been dropped and Arma has been ruined forever.

BIS really needs a PR guy.

[Tyl3r99 41]

LOL You stop, 99% of your post here was update ? update ? update ? ... it's not a trolling topic.

For rain, high command and more, we must waiting the end of the beta or the final game, it's just in two month :)

For a beta or a alpha, we have a lot more content than the majority of games who were releasing.

if you read the forum title it does say DEVELOPMENT BRANCH DISSCUSSION... I was asking a simple question that only requires a yes or no answer.

[pettka 694]

Lads, could you, please, stay on topic of this thread? We all know that discussing axed features is a hot topic, feel free to do so in other thread.

I personally could ensure you that there is at least dozen of developers reading most of the threads. I know that not responding may sound harsh, but keep in mind that we try our best not to overpromise and any response could be taken as a promise of something. It takes hell lot of time even to write a response and word it correctly to prevent some false hopes. And, as most of you have already noted, our time is of the essence :icon_twisted:

[Varanon 892]

ah nope, marketing is normally sperate. most large AAA teams are 100+

Most, yes. But I said I've seen big budget titles that only had 30 to 40 people actually working on the game

i will bet that BI has a better ratio of code monkeys to artists then almost any studio out their

I don't think so, and even if, most studios don't need to write the engine themselves, in almost every game these days, they are using a licensed engine (read: almost every game)

[Alwarren 2767]

... They are likely going to be in the final release

... In any case, it's a little premature to claim anything has been removed or "gotten the axe" until it is actually confirmed.

I see this happening a lot here, because something hasn't been explicitly mentioned recently by a dev, the assumption is that it's being ignored or dropped or will remain in this state forever, and/or has been deliberately nerfed for accessibility to new players or whatever.

In the case of the rain for example, it has been explicitly told to us that it is being reworked. It is not "up in the air whether it returns or not".

After three people managed to overlook the same part, I didn't say it was axed, I said it is questionable whether it will return. And please, don't try to play the optimism card; we'll see it when we get there. In the case of the rain, it has been said it will return IF "we can do it right", or something along these lines. This is not an assumption. There is no rain in the game right now, and that is the only thing that is known for sure. Will it return? We'll see.

And all of it can be avoided with proper communication, something that has been talked about a lot but never actually implemented. For starters, the "Known issues" page could be kept a bit more up-to-date. Devs could make comments on the tickets, or at least acknowledge them as issues.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Alwarren

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

....and any response could be taken as a promise of something. It takes hell lot of time even to write a response and word it correctly to prevent some false hopes.....:icon_twisted:

A painful truth I deal with every day in my job.

Keep up the good work and I am eagerly waiting every dev branch.

[fragmachine 12]

Lads, could you, please, stay on topic of this thread? We all know that discussing axed features is a hot topic, feel free to do so in other thread.

I personally could ensure you that there is at least dozen of developers reading most of the threads. I know that not responding may sound harsh, but keep in mind that we try our best not to overpromise and any response could be taken as a promise of something. It takes hell lot of time even to write a response and word it correctly to prevent some false hopes. And, as most of you have already noted, our time is of the essence :icon_twisted:

<sarcasm> Ahh I see where resources were being streamed for the last few years </sarcasm> :icon_twisted:

It must really hurt the team - and community so - when there are such drastic changes in the consistency of the team, and dev leads - meaning impossible to maintain the same direction of the game - if helmsman is constantly changing. It is not good for the projects announced features for sure. Even more worrisome is devteam without specific priorities (as MadDogX inclined adding and removing doors - not sure if that was just quick test - or was that serious decision to add them in the final game).

Game looks great, performance is slightly better with beta, but as for 3 years of development it kinda feels like something is missing indeed...

[dmarkwick 261]

And please, don't try to play the optimism card

Optimism card no, pessimism card yes. Gottit :)

[maddogx 13]

Guys, this isn't getting any better. He asked us to get the thread back on topic, so let's do that.

[gizmo_fcl 10]

the new dev 0.71.107443 update no sound on weaben in Domination

only if you turn dev off to 0,70,106872 you got sound in domanasions missons

Regards [T-DK]GIZMO^V FCL