Is Modding Disabled?

[KEVINMGXP 20]

you can also look here on the past Q&A With Panzer_Baron where he clarifies the situation a little bit more....

http://www.armaholic.com/forums.php?m=posts&id=124012

Kind regards

Edited June 9, 2012 by KBourne
Deleted unimportant part of my post...

[[aps]gnat 28]

Ooooh .... "paid DLC" .... there you go, thats why they did this ! ffs.

This game is annoying the shit out of me on all fronts.

[raptor90 1]

Gnat;2168913']Ooooh .... "paid DLC" .... there you go' date=' thats why they did this ! ffs.

This game is annoying the shit out of me on all fronts.[/quote']

DLC or patches FYI...

Anyway I did not ever see any "free DLC" ever.

[.kju 3240]

Are you people too lazy or dump to read? Sad to see this hate from vets like you Gnat.

[dmarkwick 261]

you can also look here on the past Q&A With Panzer_Baron where he clarifies the situation a little bit more....

http://www.armaholic.com/forums.php?m=posts&id=124012

Kind regards

I think this is the clearest explanation of all, thanks for linking to it.

[Sealife 22]

Gnat;2168913']Ooooh .... "paid DLC" .... there you go' date=' thats why they did this ! ffs.

This game is annoying the shit out of me on all fronts.[/quote']

Thought you would have more respect for the guys who made there own standalone game from there favourite engine , maybe you should get together with the other addon makers in this thread and simply do what they did , grow a pair of balls and take the next step from being a hobbyist. Otherwise respect that they did and don't be so naive and think that they could allow BiS tools and bis code / examples in there game surely everyone recognised that BIS would lose all control over its key asset , a mod doable game with the potential to create any scenario you wish , if that was allowed in this game too then days ww11 would be out now and all other versions of arma 2 favourites and bis would lose a lot of future revenue .

People need to. Understand if this fails then future addon makers wanting to make there own version of what they want to see in the rv engine will become harder still.open your eyes people , you are killing the very thing you love imo, if you want arma2 with Germans and your own little addon it's already available a couple of pages back.

[W0lle 1047]

Are you people too lazy or dump to read? Sad to see this hate from vets like you Gnat.

Well to be honest, if I would read that "modding is restricted" and that "paid DLC will come" I also would come to the conclusion that the two things are related, e.g. "We restrict modding so we can sell our own stuff instead" - see Failmasters with their horrible shooters. :)

Quote from the official forums:

For addons and mods there is the possibility to create free DLC and the opportunity to make paid DLC to be provided in cooperation with X1Software/Awar.

Free DLC approved by X1/AWAR using community created content - alright, for now.

Paid DLC? Now it gets complicated. The only way (afaik) to create content for the RV engine is using BI Tools. And their EULA doesn't allow commercial exploitation of the tools. And so far I have not seen any official statement from BI which says that there will be an exception for IF44. Besides that, this is exactly what this community doesn't need - another FlightSimulator situation where you have to pay for - community created - content.

In the same post mlacix also confirmes that the BI Tools can't be used to create commercial addons:

1. To use the BI tools suite or Arma sample models to create assets for Iron Front (unless the modder gets a personal license from Bohemia Interactive itself).
   
2. To port any BI asset to Iron Front nor to attempt to port any Iron Front asset into BI games.
   
3. The work may have to be tested using Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead during the development. We still have to check the possibilities of development.

What now? Create paid DLC with X1/AWAR but don't use the BI Tools for it. :confused:

At Armaholic panzer_baron says:

1- The mod must NOT violate any other rights, for example no stolen sounds from other games allowed, no stolen models from other games.

2- Some quality. It's obvious that if the only way to release mods is through patches, we would like to release mods that have good quality.

1 - Alright, fine for me. The question is just how they want to know from where a sound, model or texture is. It's already hard enough to tell by this huge A2 community.

2 - Who defines what is 'some quality' ? One of their guys, or two? Who guarantees that some Addons are not rejected just because they don't like it or the creator?

Some more legal question:

And what if an American modder wants to add swastikas to the units - which is perfectly legal where he lives - will he ever gets his addon approved? I highly doubt that because in certain countries it's not allowed. So what law applies in such a situation? Now German law applies worldwide or what?

What if the bad bad sign is used in user missions? Will the world tear down then, or the creator gets into trouble? Is the mission blacklisted somehow then? Questions over questions.

Honestly, this whole thing stinks. Why the dscreatekey tool simply can't be expanded to allow the creation of if44 compatible signatures? That would be much easier than above procedure, but probably isn't wanted.

So, everything that made this community great is restricted with this game. The statements made by different members of the team are just confusing and create more questions than they answer.

Under such conditions I will not provide any content for this title at all.

Finally this way Iron Front will keep a hassle free Multiplayer experience with no missing addons to look for by yourself.

Yeah make sure generation xbox must not use their brain too much, it could explode when they must look for an addon and add it to their game...

Instead making it even easier for users, how about making it easier for modders to create content which in the end ensures the game lives a bit longer than the average restricted shooter?

Lame. And I'm really curious how successful this thing will be in the long run.

Important: This is not an official post made as moderator but as a community member!

[Sealife 22]

2 - Who defines what is 'some quality' ? One of their guys, or two? Who guarantees that some Addons are not rejected just because they don't like it or the creator?

It doesnt remind you of anything ?

Surely thats how CWR2 etc where run , you would not put crap in it would you ? surely you trust this mod team like you trust your own process ?

Ithink your all post is Hypoctirtical quite frankly , you remember CWC sounds and Codemaster content problems or its all done now and forgotten that somethings were not owned by BIS ?

Completely Laughable how you have forgot your own Work flow hmmm ?

[W0lle 1047]

There is a hell lot of crap content in CWR² now, and in worst case will remain there if no replacements are found. Also all 3rd party content in CWR² is there because the creator wanted it to be there. And so far we have not rejected anything that has been offered and surely not because we don't like someone. ;)

The sound problem was never a problem for us, we were fine with the xbox sounds and only replaced them with the originals because the chance was there.

But there is one thing you forgot: CWR² is a project made by the community for the community. IF44 is a commercial project with the goal to make as much money out of it as possible.

If no one would play our Mod, that's fine for me and not the end. If no one plays IF44 in 6 months that's another story.

[Sealife 22]

IF44 is a commercial project with the goal to make as much money out of it as possible

You are blinded by your rage i am afraid,

There is a thourough explanation of how to get free content in IF44 and you are omitting it , i am saying the process is based on trust .

I think people are really Missing the fact that this is not Arma 2.5 run by BIS but a group of hobbyist that have taken the next logical step from Paypal donation Button to making there hobby a paid full time adventure .

Simply allowing Freedom in this Game like Arma2 would just be to create an absolute mess for everybody .

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Well to be honest, if I would read that "modding is restricted" and that "paid DLC will come" I also would come to the conclusion that the two things are related, e.g. "We restrict modding so we can sell our own stuff instead" - see Failmasters with their horrible shooters. :)

Quote from the official forums:

Free DLC approved by X1/AWAR using community created content - alright, for now.

Paid DLC? Now it gets complicated. The only way (afaik) to create content for the RV engine is using BI Tools. And their EULA doesn't allow commercial exploitation of the tools. And so far I have not seen any official statement from BI which says that there will be an exception for IF44. Besides that, this is exactly what this community doesn't need - another FlightSimulator situation where you have to pay for - community created - content.

Well I think you have a good point here, I think they need to withhold them selves from releasing community addons as pay-ware as they might violate their own agreement by selling content trough Paid DLC's, unless they have something in that agreement where they will be able to do so ...

If we put the dots on the I's :cool: it might be even more complicated....

Kind regards

Edited June 10, 2012 by KBourne

[icewindo 29]

Well I think you have a good point here, I think they need to withhold them selves from releasing community addons as pay-ware as they might violate their own agreement by selling content trough Paid DLC's, unless they have something in that agreement where they will be able to do so ...

If we put the dots on the I's :cool: it might be even more complicated....

Kind regards

This is just a giant fail imo. If you work on a REAL game with $$$ involved you'd think the developers and publisher would have gone through careful deliberation before the release and actually did a little research about their licenses and conclude what a) they are not allowed to do and b) what the community is not allowed to do.

On the bright side I think the number of mods free / paid (to be decided?) content for this game will be even less than for TOH after the latest statement.

Well to be honest, if I would read that "modding is restricted" and that "paid DLC will come" I also would come to the conclusion that the two things are related, e.g. "We restrict modding so we can sell our own stuff instead" - see Failmasters with their horrible shooters. :)

Quote from the official forums:

(...)

Important: This is not an official post made as moderator but as a community member!

Full ack on this post, Wolle.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Icewindo

[Sealife 22]

This is just a giant fail imo. If you work on a REAL game with $$$ involved you'd think the developers and publisher would have gone through careful deliberation before the release and actually did a little research about their licenses and conclude what a) they are not allowed to do and b) what the community is not allowed to do.

On the bright side I think the number of mods free / paid (to be decided?) content for this game will be even less than for TOH after the latest statement.

I dont think your being fair at all , not you alone of coures.

BIS will have thought of all scenarios too dont forget , its not all about the makers of this Franchise , Imagine already there would be DAYZ mod in this engine , BIS will soon hopefully make a good bit of revenue from it on there Engine and tthat will Pass too A3 development hopefully . This is just one Reason i imagine for such stringent Licences and also TOH rearmed content etc .

You really need to look at the Bigger Financial and Buisness implications before thinking like Hobbyist modder who cannot use BIS engine free and easy , because at moment some Posts here seem absolutely like Child living in a world without consequence who must have his candy , his way .

and this ?

On the bright side I think the number of mods free / paid (to be decided?) content for this game will be even less than for TOH after the latest statement.

I have seen some disgraceful sentiment in this forums but i believe that is definitely in the top 3 ;(

[KEVINMGXP 20]

This is just a giant fail imo. If you work on a REAL game with $$$ involved you'd think the developers and publisher would have gone through careful deliberation before the release and actually did a little research about their licenses and conclude what a) they are not allowed to do and b) what the community is not allowed to do.

In this case they dint think of it, you can call it a giant fail but on the other hand I don't think that it is that easy as you point it out.

Firstly they are pretty new on the turf, they are coming from a modding world in to the development of a full game.

Secondly the engine is not their property they merely licensed the use of the engine to build their content on.

There is a huge difference when it comes to copyrights which restricts them also in the freedom towards the community in a whole.

For example: and call it a fail again as you wish, If you lease a car are you then entitled to give the keys to a third party without informing the owner? And if the agreement says no! You cant, would you still give those keys?

I don't think so :)

I do hear the disappointment and I do understand that the whole issue is something that were not used to, considered that we had all the freedom to do as we liked on the Bohemia interactive products, but the comments that I read are seen trough the eyes of a hobbyist without thinking it trough.

They have said things e.g. not using bis tools, and then again ''yes you can'' and then there is still the point that they might release content trough payed DLC's while they morally cant allow it when the addons are made with the bis tools. It makes the situation confusing at the least and communication from their end is not been great, I also agreeing to a point that things might have been different if they had a slightly different approach but it doesn't change the fact that the situation is like it is and certain things might not be clear as of yet but you can always ask clarification on their forums if you wish.

The ops question, Is Modding Disabled? the answer is most certainly NO the only thing that is needed is a more personal approach with the development it selves, and from what Ive seen from the majority of the community is that they demands a different approach where they STATED more then once I want, I will and I must, this is definitely not how the world works for the most of us and this counts in the same way in the gaming industry whether you like it or not. And you cant expect that they will break a agreement just to please us, if things are not clear just ask them to clarify.

Kind regards

Edited June 10, 2012 by KBourne

[hellfire257 3]

If this was such a small issue, people wouldn't be so unhappy with it. I have started the game a grand total of 8 times since I bought it. It I could mod it, that figure would be much higher. If I'm 100% honest, IF was a total waste of money for me, and I wish there had been a statement about modding restrictions before release. If I had known, I wouldn't have bought it.

[max power 21]

What now? Create paid DLC with X1/AWAR but don't use the BI Tools for it. :confused:

If I was to hazard a guess at the situation it would be that while the community members don't have a license to make commerical stuff with the tools, the IF devs do. I am guessing that if you hand your stuff over to them, they have the ability to convert it. They were also talking about community members applying for special licenses.

I think the biggest problem is there's not stated guarantee that your thing will be approved.

[metalcraze 290]

So wait? You can't mod IF? Blasphemy!

It's like IF devs are trying to shoot themselves in the foot by going againt one of the most important RV-game basics.

[Nicholas 5]

So wait? You can't mod IF? Blasphemy!

It's like IF devs are trying to shoot themselves in the foot by going againt one of the most important RV-game basics.

You can, but you must jump through a bunch of hoops to do so.

[therussiandong 10]

It was nice to see a clear response to my question by one of the IF devs.

Sadly I wasn't happy with the response.

Its like the EA version of Bohemia Interactive.

[smokedog3para 365]

How would you make an island if you cant open the .ifa buildings file, and your not allowed to use visitor 3 for making the island, then you are allowed to test in oa, when you are not allowed to move models across games to test your island ? im confussed now lol.

Also what if the ww2 addon makers wanted to port them from arma2 to IF they would have to start again from scratch because they had used the bitools to make them, If you have to make a mod twice and use no bis tools on the second lot. its a crying shame and a big waste of time to me.

Edited June 11, 2012 by SmokeDog3PARA

[OrLoK 20]

Hello

AFAIK one can use bis tools and one can port your own mod from a2 to IFL.

You just have to release it through them as part of a patch/mini free dlc.

Rgds

LoK

[verde13 0]

I was really looking forward to get IF and then i heard about the modding restrictions.

The one thing that attracted me to OFP, ARMA and ARMA 2 was the community mods. Without them there is no point in getting IF. It may be a nice game and all but its longevity without mods will expire sooner rather than later.

[raptor90 1]

So you buy games because of mods ?

LibMod was a mod and you want more mods on mod ?

Which mod would you like on IF ? Dayz, I44, ACE, ACRE ?

I don`t understand you people.

[dm 9]

I don`t understand you people.

Spoiled community is spoiled.

Somehow they've gained the idea that ALL BI (and related) products must be able to be cross-ported and freely ripped apart.

I'm surprised we're not seeing "why cant we port the Carrier Command assets to ArmA2!?!?!?1" threads...

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I think the biggest problem is there's not stated guarantee that your thing will be approved.

You have a point here, but as far as I can tell there are already a few people involved with X1/Awar to create content for Iron Front for free

firstly we have someone working on a sound mod which will be implemented trough patching

secondly I saw a guy building a motor cycle with a side car, the devs are even giving advice how large the lods and meches need to be to implement them in the game...

I do not think the devs are giving advice to community members just to stick their middle finger in the noses of those that are working on models, I mean common it doesn't make any sense is it? For me it looks and sounds that the devs are really giving their best effort under these circumstances, and if community members are willing enough to put some time in making addons and work with the devs I think it might work perfectly.

Even at this point when the devs show some devotion and dedication the majority keeps acting stubborn without trying to approach Iron Front in an orderly manner, without giving the whole thing a real chance and to me thats even more disappointing then the fact that they had to put up some restrictions.

Kind regards