Is Modding Disabled?

[lexx 1332]

Well, just to make it clear, I don't care about swastikas and I don't mind them not being in the game. It's just all the fuzz about it...

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Also I see no difference in creating a swastika-nazi-jew-extermination truck for a mission or... for a mission.

You don't see the difference between mission editing and addon content releases but the law is, and thats just the point about it. It is not because you don't find it important that others might not get offended by it and as such the German law is clear about that ''they don't want it plain and simple.'' Not seeing the difference of mission design with or without those symbols doesn't change the fact that they have to obey those laws about actual addons and its content release.

Not really trying, to be honest. I just find this argument extremely silly, as is this talk about it.

The remark you made about just to get the air of the arguments is evenly silly and thats the reason why I posted that Quote. The whole thread goes just about modding and its restrictions, trying to push your thoughts trough by stating that you are going to get the pressure of those arguments is not going to cut it.

It just annoys me when people try to defend the limited modding capabilities with "they need to prevent swastika and ss-runes!"

It is not defending but trying to understand, Read the thread and the reasoning behind the restrictions and you might get just about there where you need to be ... Saying that it annoys you is not going to cut it eater is it?

This would be a fight which the devs simply cannot win.

Firstly its not a fight, try to see it trough some different glasses, the devs aren't here the fight a war neater are they here to win a fight they only implementing those rules because they need to implement them. And by now they will already know, whatever they will do about this situation it will never be enough for the community ....

Except if they remove the ability to exchange textures. But then they would limit the modding capabilities even more.

Here you have more freedom because it is not modding this is mission editing, they stated that we have complete freedom just like in ArmA when it comes to mission development, as said before this thread is about modding and texturing is only a part from modding and when a community member wants to release his mods they need to contain textures which needs to hold no forbidden symbols because of the mere fact that the addons will need to pas trough Iron Front Development first, as far as I am aware of it whats don trough mission editing has nothing to do with it.

Kind regards

Edited June 8, 2012 by KBourne
Gramma

[MissionCreep 12]

Does German law hold a company responsible for extensions/additions a third party makes to its software? I recall IL-2 Sturmovik had lot of mods and skins, included German and Finnish aircraft with swastikas. I believe a patch was available to remove the all swastikas from the mod packages, while retaining the aircraft skins. I don't think the makers suffered any consequences. I don't really care if swastikas or SS symbols are there or not, but it seems that this issue around it is limiting so many possibilities for this project. What if someone wanted to make a mission/campaign that takes place partly or completely in a concentration camp? Would that be deemed unacceptable/objectionable? It has been the setting for many a movie. Why not a role-playing video game? I recall EA had to defend itself after it allowed users to take on the role of the Taliban in MoH. Some people find the hammer and sickle symbol objectionable. Stalin was responsible for a lot of killing too.

Edited June 8, 2012 by MissionCreep

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Does German law hold a company responsible for extensions/additions a third party makes to its software?

It is not third party when it passes trough Iron Front Development and partly because of the agreement they have with bohemia interactive the content needs to pas trough them before it can be released in an official patch. This makes the situation a little twisted, true but it is like it is for all party's not ideal ...

German law might hold them responsible for what is released trough them if it violates the laws in Germany, I think the rules are implemented to prevent this from happening. They don't have the funds e.g. EA and other larger company's to fight back against certain lawsuits and might kill future releases if they do allow it to happen ...

kind regards

Edited June 8, 2012 by KBourne

[jblackrupert 14]

Official cheats or addons to break the game would be fun, right? Please take a bit of time to think before you write stuff Assayks.

If they were concerned about cheats then why is there no anticheat packed in the game.. IE. Battleye?

They have an agreement with bis which makes it so that they need to check the addon content before it is released to make sure that the addon it selves is legit.

I'd like to hear from Bohemia regarding this issue, it seriously doesn't sound like something Bohemia would force someone licensing the engine to do considering how much of a negative effect it would have on the future of the game

given the targeted customer base.

The Arma 2 engine is reaching the end of it's shelf life and until DayZ dropped it was pretty much drying up, Bohemia is taking one more shot at the DLC game before Arma 3 drops.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind making a few bucks licencing the engine out to a few developers, but these rules X1/Awar claim are there look like something designed to scare everyone off

from even thinking about signing a deal with Bohemia.

I think there's a wee bit more going on then what their admitting to.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I'd like to hear from Bohemia regarding this issue, it seriously doesn't sound like something Bohemia would force someone licensing the engine to do considering how much of a negative effect it would have on the future of the game

given the targeted customer base.

You don't need to really, If you read the Aula regarding the bis tool suit and as they only licensed the use of the engine I think the restrictions are legit ..

The Arma 2 engine is reaching the end of it's shelf life and until DayZ dropped it was pretty much drying up,

Says you? I mean as far as I am aware the game is still being sold as of today and DLC's are still coming out so it is far from dyed out :/

Bohemia is taking one more shot at the DLC game before Arma 3 drops.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind making a few bucks licencing the engine out to a few developers,

This part is pure business and you cant blame them for doing so is it?

but these rules X1/Awar claim are there look like something designed to scare everyone off

from even thinking about signing a deal with Bohemia.

this makes no sense at all especially if you look upon it from Bohemia interactive position, not only that read your former statement where you say that they wouldn't mind making a few bucks licensing the engine out to a few other developers.

I think there's a wee bit more going on then what their admitting to.

Pretty strong words considered that you cant back it up.

kind regards

[jblackrupert 14]

his makes no sense at all especially if you look upon it from Bohemia interactive position, not only that read your former statement where you say that they wouldn't mind making a few bucks licensing the engine out to a few other developers.

What I said makes perfect sense.

I don't believe Bohemia is forcing them to make addon/mod makers jump through hoops to get their creations out to the community.

If Bohemia made addon/mod makers go through this process for every little addon/mod there would be hell to pay and they know it

so I seriously....seriously doupt they would put that kind of requirement on a developer with limited resources and money.

Unless you has some kind of inside knowledge, you really have no proof that I'm wrong any more then I have proof that I'm 100% right.

[-GR-Operative 10]

About the topic: it's plain and simple, don't know why people are so mad about it.

IF44 team:

- has an agreement with BI.

- needs to approve ANY mod to be released.

- must comply with German laws.

- cannot release material contaning Nazi symbols.

- so no mods with Nazi symbols are going to be approved.

It was a simply misunderstanding at the start, but the whole thing snowballed to this, hindering a lot of mods to come. That's it.

(applies to almost every message from this user in this very thread)

Man, you got the worst translator EVER!

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I don't believe Bohemia is forcing them to make addon/mod makers jump through hoops to get their creations out to the community.

Are you even thinking this seriously trough?

Iron front development and Bohemia interactive has an agreement, as said by them selves in their statement, if the statement would be wrong BIS would of reacted by now. How the agreement sounds I do not exactly know but if you use common sense and reasoning I think we might come to a healthy conclusion that BIS wants to be sure that any content released whether it is community based or IF Development based doesn't contain any elements released by them. No where is stated by me that Bohemia interactive is forcing the Iron front development to restrict the community to release their creations. But they surely had a misunderstanding about this situation which they where bound to put up a set of rules to exclude such infractions.

you really have no proof that I'm wrong any more then I have proof that I'm 100% right.

Did i stated that you are wrong? I said that it doesn't make sense and that your words are pretty strong, considered that you cant back it up

and thats my honest opinion about it :)

kind regards

[-GR-Operative 10]

Does German law hold a company responsible for extensions/additions a third party makes to its software? I recall IL-2 Sturmovik had lot of mods and skins, included German and Finnish aircraft with swastikas. I believe a patch was available to remove the all swastikas from the mod packages, while retaining the aircraft skins. I don't think the makers suffered any consequences. I don't really care if swastikas or SS symbols are there or not, but it seems that this issue around it is limiting so many possibilities for this project. What if someone wanted to make a mission/campaign that takes place partly or completely in a concentration camp? Would that be deemed unacceptable/objectionable? It has been the setting for many a movie. Why not a role-playing video game? I recall EA had to defend itself after it allowed users to take on the role of the Taliban in MoH. Some people find the hammer and sickle symbol objectionable. Stalin was responsible for a lot of killing too.

You are missing the fact that the IF team needs to approve the content first dude. And they can't, as german law forbids it.

And so this is it. A debate about German laws here is/would be totally off-topic.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------

so I seriously....seriously doupt they would put that kind of requirement on a developer with limited resources and money.

I don't know if this is also a saying in english, but in portuguese I'm likely to say something like this: "Friends are friends, business is business".

Afterall, they have an agreement. It's done. No going back for free. IF devs should have properly read their papers BEFORE signing them.

[belgerot 33]

Well this is somewhat disappointing..

[jblackrupert 14]

Well this is somewhat disappointing..

It's a little more then that. No anti-cheat, Mod/Addon approval process, no fully working dedicated server on release, bugs that still cause CTD.... all the recipes for a game that will be dead very very soon.

[.kju 3240]

Signature system is in place that stops data modification.

Whats the big deal with approval process? If its too much effort to send a mail, to get it official and integrated in a patch, you better leave it.

Dedicated server available in 1.01 beta and fully with 1.02 one and half week after the release.

BI is working on making it more stable.

Mostly offtopic whine post anyway. There are other threads for that.

[Nicholas 5]

What happens if AWAR or X1 Software were to close their doors. What would we do about modding then?

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Mostly offtopic whine post anyway. There are other threads for that.

Sadly lots off OT's here bitching about not being able to put in textures with SS symbols and swastikas and avoiding the modding rules by putting them in trough mission editing. Anyway I would like to see some comments by now about what can be don which will give a more reliant view on the situation for the real modders, not about what can not be don because we already know that.

What happens if AWAR or X1 Software were to close their doors. What would we do about modding then?

This right here, love to hear reasonable comments about this one :rolleyes: :p

Kind regards

Edited June 9, 2012 by KBourne

[ProfTournesol 956]

The problem is the so called quality screening by the IF team. It's really far from our community spirit, and i don't get how BI is involved in this requirement.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

The problem is the so called quality screening by the IF team. It's really far from our community spirit,

This part I do understand, we are not really used to it like you said right here.

and i don't get how BI is involved in this requirement.

I don't think bis is directly involved on the requirements, the only reason why bis is involved is the key and because of the mere fact that X1-Awar doesn't have approval to release the key to a third party in their license, which is the agreement they have with bis. IF development needs to sign the addons for us to give the ability to mod.

The involvement therefor for bis is more indirect and because of the agreement, when a developer signs the addons and releases it trough patches the developer is responsible for it, hence the law in Germany which makes it so that they can not allow addons to be released trough them with forbidden signs, stolen moddels or textures.

Its all about the circumstances and copyrights on the key sign and it turned out a little sour for the modding community, but not impossible to mod they don't forbid it ...

Kind regards

Edited June 9, 2012 by KBourne

[ProfTournesol 956]

So mods can only be delivered through the patching process ?

[KEVINMGXP 20]

So mods can only be delivered through the patching process ?

uhu, sadly yes ..

[ProfTournesol 956]

God, i really hope that this awkward situation is only related to licensing their proprietary engine to a third party, and that it isn't a live experiment of what future modding on future RV engine could look like. But after having watched E3 footage and heared so many times the "community" word, i'm confident BI won't shoot itself a bullet in the leg.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

God, i really hope that this awkward situation is only related to licensing their proprietary engine to a third party, and that it isn't a live experiment of what future modding on future RV engine could look like. But after having watched E3 footage and heared so many times the "community" word, i'm confident BI won't shoot itself a bullet in the leg.

Nah, they already said multiple times they will keep supporting the modding community, Its like you said an awkward situation which is copyright related.

I am confident bis would never turn the dices on the modding community, I saw improved animations in the last vid of bis which looks like this here or at least look similar to these anims so they know the community can come up with great ID's to implement them in future installments.

sadly this will be reduced in the IF tittle but at least they still try to give some possibilities, the only thing we need to do is making compromises, and thats just what they try to do I guess ...

kind regards

Edited June 9, 2012 by KBourne

[Herbal Influence 10]

Well, it's all a bit unproportional, like in Arma2: Hundreds of people modding like hell, but few people playing .... I like mods, but I know modders who whine around because noones using their nice works.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, it's all a bit unproportional, like in Arma2: Hundreds of people modding like hell, but few people playing .... I like mods, but I know modders who whine around because noones using their nice works.

I prefer it this way. But modders should be aware that modding isn't a popularity contest :)

[hellfire257 3]

Ugh, what a mess. What's with the silence on the issue anyway?

[.kju 3240]

Please read and try to understand the statement before jumping to conclusions:

http://forum.iron-front.com/showthread.php?358-Iron-Front-Liberation-1944-Modding-possibilities-Announcement&p=2876&viewfull=1#post2876

Also you are best to follow the devs explanations in the official forum:

http://forum.iron-front.com/showthread.php?358-Iron-Front-Liberation-1944-Modding-possibilities-Announcement

Finally ask in the official forum, if things are unclear.

This whole speculation, people talking nonsense because they have no understanding of modding, and whining really is pointless and only hurts everyone.