Is Modding Disabled?

[[aps]gnat 28]

Thought you would have more respect for the guys who made there own standalone game from there favourite engine , maybe you should get together with the other addon makers in this thread and simply do what they did , grow a pair of balls and take the next step from being a hobbyist.

Out of line mate.

I purchase the game 90% on the basis I could add content as a hobbyist. I was mislead by the developers. Sure, they didn't specifically say that there'd be hoops to jump through, but why would I have suspected that when the BIS tools I already have !!!

And as for growing some balls, back at ya.

I ENJOY being a hobbyist, with my own subject matter, my own schedule, not someone elses.

And I have a RL job that pays better than a risky game developer endeavour. I also have a RL mortgage to keep in check.

ArmA2AO hasn't crashed on me in MANY months, even with the select beta.

This thing crashes every time I turn my head!

Bloody annoying all over.

Spoiled community is spoiled.

BS

[verde13 0]

So you buy games because of mods ?

LibMod was a mod and you want more mods on mod ?

Which mod would you like on IF ? Dayz, I44, ACE, ACRE ?

I don`t understand you people.

Spoiled community is spoiled.

Somehow they've gained the idea that ALL BI (and related) products must be able to be cross-ported and freely ripped apart.

I'm surprised we're not seeing "why cant we port the Carrier Command assets to ArmA2!?!?!?1" threads...

Spoiled community ? I'm sure BIS is ruining the day DayZ came out and doubled the sales of ARMA 2. Come to think of it would any of BIS products have survived this long if they weren't moddable ? I doubt it.

In any case i've said my piece and whether you two like it or not is irrelevant.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Gnat;2169569']I purchase the game 90% on the basis I could add content as a hobbyist.

Not personal Gnat but I do not find it very smart that you buy something only based on the fact that you can add stuff' date=' I mean you say you are mis led by the Iron Front Development. To me it sounds that you where mis led by your own assumptions here and that doesn't sound really fair ...

Gnat;2169569']Sure, they didn't specifically say that there'd be hoops to jump through, but why would I have suspected that when the BIS tools I already have !!!

Your not new Gnat you should know after all its stated in the Tools Aula inst it? :confused: also they said that you can use the tools and test it on ArmA2 so they might have an agreement that when it passes trough them first that it will be o.k., its the Key which is copyrighted thats causing a slight problem and where they needed to decide to restrict the freedom we are used too. I understand that your not happy but your not thinking totally strait here ...

Spoiled community ? I'm sure BIS is ruining the day DayZ came out and doubled the sales of ARMA 2.

Now you want to say that DayZ made Bohemia interactive's sales :rolleyes: How long does DayZ exist? I bet BiS already had their share of the pie before DayZ was a hit, You are taking this WAAAY out of proportion.

Come to think of it would any of BIS products have survived this long if they weren't moddable ? I doubt it.

You have a point on the survivability but you cant expect that a game based on the same engine will allow the same freedom as the original Developer, and thats a big mistake everyone is making here even the ancients.

Kind regards

Edited June 11, 2012 by KBourne
Gramma

[NoRailgunner 0]

IF:Lib44 terms and conditions were signed by X1/Awar and KochMedia. Nothing one can really change - just live with it or move to another game that you can mod without bureaucratic approvements and annoyances. Its your spare time, fun and decision.... not really worth to get mad over contracts that you didn't sign! ;)

[hellfire257 3]

Not personal Gnat but I do not find it very smart that you buy something only based on the fact that you can add stuff, I mean you say you are mis led by the Iron Front Development. To me it sounds that you where mis led by your own assumptions here and that doesn't sound really fair ...

An assumption fed by silence. You would have to be an absolute retard to not see how important modding RV engine games is to the players and the game itself. To know that you are restricting said ability but remaining silent about it is, from a consumer's point of view, misleading. From a marketing standpoint, it is great, because you're reeling in people like myself who expected modding to be unrestricted. What has happened is essentially a clever bait-and-switch, with the bait being the silence on the issue. Of course some people are angry. I wasted my money on this game, and I certainly wont be recommending it to people like I do ARMA.

[sickboy 13]

I understand and respect the reasons for the lock, but I also can understand how people feel misinformed.

Its also an easy assumption to make, seeing the rest of the ARMA series. The misunderstanding by IF team didn't really help either :)

On the other hand, testing addons in A2, and requesting approval+sign for usage in IF, seems not that big of a deal, as long as it's maintained fairly well.

Perhaps things change with time?

[hellfire257 3]

I understand and respect the reasons for the lock, but I also can understand how people feel misinformed.

Its also an easy assumption to make, seeing the rest of the ARMA series. The misunderstanding by IF team didn't really help either :)

On the other hand, testing addons in A2, and requesting approval+sign for usage in IF, seems not that big of a deal, as long as it's maintained fairly well.

Perhaps things change with time?

Yeah, it is an unfortunate situation. It is also why I'm holding onto IF rather than trying for a refund. It is a rough diamond at the moment. Only time will tell how this all plays out.

[W0lle 1048]

So you buy games because of mods ?

LibMod was a mod and you want more mods on mod ?

Which mod would you like on IF ? Dayz, I44, ACE, ACRE ?

I don`t understand you people.

Uhh yes.

If ArmA and ArmA2 wouldn't have that possibility, I probably wouldn't have purchased them.

Spoiled community is spoiled.

Somehow they've gained the idea that ALL BI (and related) products must be able to be cross-ported and freely ripped apart.

I'm surprised we're not seeing "why cant we port the Carrier Command assets to ArmA2!?!?!?1" threads...

That's not the point DM, as far as I can tell no one here said that they want to rip things apart and port them to IF44. The problem is more that every tiny little Mod must be approved and only distributed by them.

And while I'm at it, here's another problem with this procedure:

Let's say I sit down and create some big addon or even mod for IF44, something I spend weeks and months on and then they come and tell me to bugger off because it can't be included for whatever reason. Well thanks a lot then for letting me waste my precious time for nothing!

[[aps]gnat 28]

To me it sounds that you where mis led by your own assumptions here and that doesn't sound really fair ...

Seems a whole bunch of people here are thinking the same as I

Your not new Gnat you should know after all its stated in the Tools Aula inst it? :confused: also they said that you can use the tools and test it on ArmA2 so they might have an agreement that when it passes trough them first that it will be o.k., its the Key which is copyrighted thats causing a slight problem and where they needed to decide to restrict the freedom we are used too. I understand that your not happy but your not thinking totally strait here ...

Huh ?! Dont know about "not thinking" ... but with that I gotta say "not understanding".

From a marketing standpoint, it is great, because you're reeling in people like myself who expected modding to be unrestricted.

Yeh.Exactly.

Two maybe examples;

1. Prior release potential buyer hears IF teams say "restricted / by approval moding/addons" ..... then hear early buyers say "similar to I44" (as they have). So now some potential buyers reconsider their purchase.

2. "Hello IF team, we're the I44 team (or example any other large WWII mod). We'd like to port our free mod content to IF. Please provide permissions" ..... Potential awkward silence as the IF team consider the lost income if they do so!

My guess now is the IF team had a completely different planned revenue model from this game.

Unlike BIS, they're not making most of their income from the initial purchase (it was cheap), they plan to do what 90% of the industry is doing. Selling a bunch of over priced DLC.

Glad to see BIS's go-to-market model (with free tools etc) was vindicated by the DayZ mod.

LOL .... bet a few developers were saying "WTF!" as the "old" ArmA2 raced back up the best seller charts :D

[Li0n 10]

Selling a bunch of over priced DLC.

You can sell infinitely over-priced DLC`s as long as you want, but who gonna buy it? People will only pay for the DLC`s that are not overpriced on thier opinion. No one is staying behind you with a gun and demanding you to buy it. We`ve got a completed product from initial purchase ( yes, buggy, but patches are free and the game works without any DLCs ).

Of course - HOW THEY DARE TO DEMAND THE MONEY FOR THIER NEXT WORK? THEY MUST GIVE IT FOR FREE AND BEG US TO TAKE IT!

btw, while you whine about "modding disabled" people on IF official forums already linked up with devs and started to create thier addons on IF.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Li0n

[dm 9]

Of course - HOW THEY DARE TO DEMAND THE MONEY FOR THIER NEXT WORK? THEY MUST GIVE IT FOR FREE AND BEG US TO TAKE IT!

This x1000

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yeh, and again you guys miss the point (or avoid the other text) that some of us are saying.

...... DONT CARE about the DLC ..... I may or may not buy some.

What I DO CARE about is having bought a game I though to could do as I did with OFP, ArmA, ArmAII, ArmAIIOA and TKH

And yes, TKH has DLC, as will ArmAII soon.

[Sealife 22]

What I DO CARE about is having bought a game I though to could do as I did with OFP, ArmA, ArmAII

You base all your purchases on a THOUGHT, ?,

Gnat you are well aware of Bis tools and the EULA`s as others have said , it is incredulous for you to think BIS would allow another company to not only emulate there success by using there tools Engine Sample models and community ,they paid for a license not a piece of BIS business PIE. Just think about where it would go if we had 2 lots of Arma 2 ? there just isn't the crowd or the revenue to allow it , not even a share of it if you look at the facts.

I saw it and so did the countless 1000`s who didn't buy or post here .

unfortunately i think you have solved your own dilemma , "you thought and therefore it was" simply didn't come true this time i think. i`m sorry your labouring what is an obvious mistake on your behalf and trying to mask it by blaming someone else in this case .

[hellfire257 3]

You base all your purchases on a THOUGHT, ?,

Nobody said modding would be restricted. Nobody said it wouldn't be either. Modding is an integral part of the RV engine games, so there was arguably more to suggest it would not be restricted than to suggest it would be. The IF team should have announced that they were forced to restrict modding, but of course, that would never have happened because it would have hurt sales.

[almanzo 144]

This is the statement from the announcement made on the iron front forums: http://forum.iron-front.com/showthread.php?358-Iron-Front-Liberation-1944-Modding-possibilities-Announcement

"Dear Iron Front Fans

We have to apologize for our incorrect statements about being able to provide exactly the same possibilities and process of community modding for Iron Front as Arma does. There has been a misunderstanding on our side until very recently about our agreement with Bohemia Interactive on the possibilities and limitations.

Iron Front will allow modding, but there are limits and certain things to keep in mind. This is to not violate both our agreement with Bohemia Interactive and the license a modder accepts when he is using the BI tools suite.[...]"

Prior to release, and for quite the amount of time after released, the impression they (the IF developers) gave, was that the game would have the same modding ability as ARMA had. Me, and alot of others believed that to be true. It was stated several times. It sounded like an awsome product, and it was the main reason why I didn't mind the more or less buggy release and lame sound quality. I knew it would be modded, sooner or later.

Now, what do we have? A game with very little content, without the option to have it moded, unless the modders goes through a painfull and complex prosess to have their stuff released. I've been a BI costumer for years, and would never, ever expect them to do this to such a large portion of their own community. It's absolutely obvious that most costumers of IF, or at least a very large portion is part of the arma community as well. I did never in my wildest dreams think that Bohemia would do such a thing to us, and I am really thinking about NOT BUYING ARMA III due to this.

I find it rotten, simply rotten. And I think bohemia should be ashamed of this. It's a large stain on the reputation they have as a community friendly development team.

Seriously BI, please reconsider this. Please let modders have the tools they need to make Iron Front the great game it has the potential to be, as the community did with ARMA II. Without the work of the community, you wouldn't have as many loyal fans. You know that. Don't throw the trust you have away over this matter. Let Iron Front be the great game it deserves to be.

[Sealife 22]

Nobody said modding would be restricted. Nobody said it wouldn't be either. Modding is an integral part of the RV engine games, so there was arguably more to suggest it would not be restricted than to suggest it would be

Your sadly watering down the facts , When asked a statement was made , YOU can mod the game however due to the fact thye bought a licence for using the RV engine and not the tools , your mod will be vetted , to ensure quality and copyright laws i guess .

doesnt seem a big deal for stability and financial security IMO. Some people had to jump through a hell of a lot more loops to be involved in Community mods and origianl OFP tools ill tell ya.

JUST make a mod and send it before spouting out splurge about Henny penny and the sky , so far this steam has been called a lot of not so nice things without any proof . it sad to see it.

[hellfire257 3]

Not everyone wants to release their mods to the public.

[Sealife 22]

Not everyone wants to release their mods to the public

I didnt see anywhere so far that you had to distribute your addon once made ?

or you dont want IF to see it is the problem ?

Anyway i think you have probably vented enough now , maybe its time you tried a real off the wall approach and send them an e-mail or PM and say i would like a IF Key for my own private /clan use for this addon ?

it may just work who knows ?

[KEVINMGXP 20]

An assumption fed by silence.

Nuhu, nodding nay here :q:. The assumption is fed by the harts and minds of the community, and I am not saying by this that the community is wrong now but you cant put this only on Iron Front development. Its easy to point fingers but also take some responsibility of your own.

You would have to be an absolute retard to not see how important modding RV engine games is to the players and the game itself.

True on the fact that it is important, true that you would be an absolute retard if one doesn't see it.

But what, IF they just made a blunder regarding copyrights and it turned out sour for them too?

To know that you are restricting said ability but remaining silent about it is, from a consumer's point of view, misleading. From a marketing standpoint, it is great.

You say they knew but I don't see any prove of that. Aren't we jumping to conclusions again here without any real facts? I like to give them some benefit of the doubt!

What has happened is essentially a clever bait-and-switch, with the bait being the silence on the issue.

We are jumping to conclusions here again....

Gnat;2169727']Seems a whole bunch of people here are thinking the same as I

That doesn't mean that you or they aren't mis led by your own thoughts, you made a decision based on the mere fact that the same freedom as on ArmA would be provided, an assumption that you and others made.

I might see things a little different but that doesn't necessarily means that I am attacking you or anyone else :j: the only thing I try to do is keeping an open mind towards it.

The future might give a more wider view upon things ...

Kind regards.

Edited June 11, 2012 by KBourne
Removed comment.

[hellfire257 3]

Nuhu, nodding nay here . The assumption is fed by the harts and minds of the community, and I am not saying by this that the community is wrong now but you cant put this only on Iron Front development. Its easy to point fingers but also take some responsibility of your own.

The assumption of open modding, regardless of reasons, was a popular one, and it should have been blatantly obvious that such an assumption would be made by potential customers. I for one do not believe that the IF team are that oblivious to have not thought of it. So they chose to remain silent, neither proving nor DISPROVING the assumption. Therefore the arguably most logical choice is still unrestricted modding based on the heritage of the RV engine.

You say they knew but I don't see any prove of that. Aren't we jumping to conclusions again here without any real facts? I like to give them some benefit of the doubt!

What? Were they possessed and not self-aware when they made the decision to restrict? Of course they knew, unless they were stoned until release. Can you disprove my assertion?

You're not jumping to conclusions by defending their decision? You do not know any more than anyone else here (do you?). Everything here is simply speculation because nothing has been provided to prove OR disprove any assumptions/assertions made.

As with most developers, not communicating with your customers is a mistake. Their lack of communication prior to release has caused issues and unhappy customers.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

What? Were they possessed and not self-aware when they made the decision to restrict? Of course they knew, unless they were stoned until release. Can you disprove my assertion?

Now thats a different story, they made the decision based on copyright issues after release! so did they knew before or after? As far as I can recall they didn't knew they had copyright issues concerning modding at all at that point.

Whether I am able to disprove your assertion or not will not change anything about how you think or how you feel and to be honest I am not even planning to try.

You're not jumping to conclusions by defending their decision?

Defending? Well speaking of jumping to conclusions :rolleyes: there is a real difference between trying to understand the situation and defending the situation as far as I can look back I never stated that I agreed upon the decision they made, my conclusions are based on pure facts that we are all aware off by now, yours are given based on a hobbyist perspective which is understandable to a certain point but some where along the line you are taking it personal and also getting personal to everyone that is trying to give it a more calm approach ....

Everything here is simply speculation because nothing has been provided to prove OR disprove any assumptions/assertions made.

You might have a point here but there is no use on dragging this in to a hate blame conversation, you might want to turn a different page towards this issue and contact them and see how it turns out.

You never know how it will work out unless you try :)

As with most developers, not communicating with your customers is a mistake. Their lack of communication prior to release has caused issues and unhappy customers.

Totally agreeing here, communication was bad and I hope they will improve on this in the future so they can avoid this kind of situations ...

kind regards

Edited June 11, 2012 by KBourne
gramma

[gossamersolid 155]

This right here, love to hear reasonable comments about this one :rolleyes: :p

It's a valid question. Stop being such a blatant fanboy, it's fucking disgusting.

[jblackrupert 14]

I'd really like to hear from Bohemia on this.

I still find it extremely hard to believe that they would make anyone sign a contract that sabotages or puts all kinds of stumbling blocks in front of any games using the Arma 2 engine.

[smokedog3para 365]

Yes its ironic were in a bis forum under the thread iron front liberation 1944 \ addons and mods discussion, discussing weather or not we can make addons or not for iron front with no offical words from both parties that could resolve this pretty quickly I Imagen. lol

A sticky from bis like the one for videos on youtube and making profit from it.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

It's a valid question.

And its a valid request after reading so many hate and rage, whats going to happen if they would close there doors? Pointing to the fact no one will get even close to implement addons in the game ...

Stop being such a blatant fanboy, it's fucking disgusting.

Are we getting personal now? grow up start with that ..

I'd really like to hear from Bohemia on this.

I still find it extremely hard to believe that they would make anyone sign a contract that sabotages or puts all kinds of stumbling blocks in front of any games using the Arma 2 engine.

It might not be bad if they would, but the question is are they willing to do so?

kind regards

Edited June 11, 2012 by KBourne