ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[arkblade 1]

I forgot to say, BIS should not make an area that is not provided ARMA3 unduly.

(fair price, all language contain all release, release same day. exclusive online distribution is can be easily cause a terrible situation.

eg: in fact Take on Helicopter have a japanese version. but that language is not distribute on steam...)

[andersson 285]

It's sad to see how many members of the ArmA community have had such an over the top reaction to this. This is completely understandable decision for BI to make. I urge anyone with doubts to really read and understand the dev-blog and replies, and read up on what steam, steam-works and workshop actually are and what they do and do not do.

Agree.

And to say that modding will die is strange... How do the arma2 players who bought it through steam do it? Just like the rest of us, they download and install mods. As we all can do with arma3. Even a dev told us that in this very thread.

[CriminalMinds 10]

Although I truly understand all longstanding community members like Xeno, CarlGustaffa etc.

which are deeply depressed by this news, I don't understand that those people are so self-contained

about something new. You guys wouldn't be here without BI and BI wouldn't be in the same position

as BI is today, without you, as longstanding community members. It's like a symbiosis.

As much as I hate Steam, there's no way that BI would scare us, the COMMUNITY, off.

I trust BI and the devs, they're doing the best in delivering a unique gaming experience

with or without Steam. Hence we all should calm down and help BI at the moment.

The decision is inevitable, so we should make the best of it.

(Giving input about negative points in Steam, which could be ironed out by BI)

Greetings

CriminalMinds

Edited February 21, 2013 by CriminalMinds

[Kaibz 1]

I suppose that nobody cares but, i like Steam and i'm really happy Arma3 will be steam only, and i'm even more happy that it will allow BIS to keep making great PC only games and just for that i'll make sure to preorder as soon as it's available. The Arma modding community is may be the best in the world, i really hope they keep making great mods though Steam workshop.

[metalcraze 290]

What are you comparing it to? Now, you have (at worst) a "mygreatmod.7z" which contains "mygreatmod.pbo" and nothing else. unless you know what to do with it, you're stonewalled. A number of people copy this file to the rest of the PBO's in the addon folder and screw up their installation.

Armaholic. Where I can immediately access a very extensive info on new and past mods and download them manually and install them where I want instead of having 1 folder per each of 100 mods. Armaholic also contains installation instructions. I refuse to believe people are too stupid to read and understand a small and clear bit of text.

But then there's also Six-Updater which is a huge library of mods and doesn't require any effort to install anything. It will keep mods updated. You can even create mod profiles right in there. It's already vastly superior to Workshop.

Steam Workshop certainly has room for improvement (the Search function to start with), but at the very least, it makes it dead easy to install a mod. This hasn't got anything to do with a user being dumb, and the presence of programs like PlayWith Six is a clear indication that there is a need for such functionality.

The question was how exactly is it better than what we have now? And yet it's not.

Do you use it? Probably not, you'll probably go for six updater or Armarize like myself, or download the stuff manually, because you know how it works. Most people here do I suppose, still there are a larger number of people, and hopefully new players, that don't know what an addon folder is. I see this as a clear win, regardless of how good or bad the implementation is now.

I think you and other people should stop treating potential new players as stupid people. Because trying to cater to people you perceive as stupid will bring that wrong kind of people into the game.

I was a new player too once. It was at the time when to install a mod that wasn't just models you had to edit config.cpp. If I learned that I'm pretty sure it's not hard to teach other new people how to double-click Six Updater's shortcut.

So again, I don't see a downside in this, only a gain.

Which gain is that? Because server-bound mod profiles are impossible with Steam. They are possible with Six-Updater however.

That proved to be not true for DayZ for example. It would be one aspect of multiplayer that might be improved in Arma 3. Personally, I prefer the style as I play now (join a clan server to play with people you know with similar mindset), but why artificially restrict this? If Arma 3 has a decent hop-in-and-play game mode, this is something you want.

I'm not saying to restrict this. What I'm saying is that the feature will be often useless in ArmA. It existing or not won't change a thing. Due to the nature of ArmA there will never be well defined gamemodes. Also because the community is always better at making MP missions than BIS. It's just the truth.

And what about DayZ? The first rule of playing it - it's playable only with people you have in the same room on Teamspeak. Everybody else must be shot on sight. No exceptions.

1.5 mln people weren't stupid enough to not be able to install DayZ. And funny thing yet there are just too many people a la "ArmA was shit and nobody played it until DayZ came and saved it" already even at that streamlined hop-in accessibility level.

And again, since it is something we do not have at all right now, yes, it's an advantage.

Just because we don't have something doesn't mean it's an advantage to have. We don't have bunnyhopping in the game either. Gotta have it now I guess.

Could turn this around, why is Steam such a bad thing?

Steam is not a bad thing. I don't have anything against this game being sold on Steam. I have nothing against Steam version of a game having all kinds of things.

What I am against is something being forced on me without any alternative. Especially if it's a paranoid DRM like Steamworks. I hear people talk about how steam connectivity issues (just type "steam disconnects" into google and smell the ashes) won't affect ArmA3 but we don't know that. Unless of course there was an additional statement from the developer I might have missed that says steamworks will not do that to a player when Steam servers disconnect again - which can happen several times a day. If you have never suffered steam connectivity issues - you never played a steamworks game during high steam store loads.

If Steam disconnects while I play the no-respawn mission (which I adore) what is the guarantee I haven't just wasted 2 hours of my life?

And then there's also a potential issue of Steam going down in the future and taking all your games with it. It will happen sooner or later. It happened to D2D which was very popular a decade ago. Starforce was used by like everybody in 2004-2006 - and now no game is playable with it under Win7 BSODing the system. XBox1 was very popular back in the day too. Now it's impossible to play anything online because games are XBox Live bound and it doesn't exist for XBox1 anymore. And if you will say "lol but it's so minor thing it won't happen any time soon" - well I still play OFP once in a while.

Edited February 21, 2013 by metalcraze

[eddieck 10]

So much bullshit in this thread, it's glorious. :D

Modding will die? Bullshit.

No more DVDs? Bullshit.

ZOMG always on DRM? Bullshit.

Just read the fucking blog post, people. It's all there.

I'm glad someone else understands!

What I can't understand is why they're still using GameSpy for MP, unless that was just for testing. Steamworks is free and GameSpy will cost them a minimum of $15k per year (this is a number I have from their email after they announced the discontinuance of their indie program), and probably more for a game of this size.

[Barely-injured 0]

Hi,

I, like many here I assume, am a massive fan of BIS. I have been playing since the OFP demo.

I add my voice to those saddened by this news today. Despite any supposed advantages, I believe that restricting costumer choice is never a good thing. I admit I will probably end up purchasing ArmA III anyways despite my dislike for steam and I never had any problem boycotting steam exclusives from major publishers before today.

I understand the reasons stated but I am concerned about the attitude of: We either release on steam or we don't release in 2013. This seems to indicate to me that there are other problems with this game that goes beyond steamworks or lack there of.

In any case, I support the developers even though I think their judgment has failed them this time around. I really wish that they would consider the possibility of a future non-steam version even if it is in 2014, or at the very least adopt a system like Sword of the Stars II i.e you can download the game, install it and patch it from steam, but you don't need steam running to lunch it at all not even offline mode.

Thanks

[jpoo78 10]

Steam server disconnects? Are you sure you know what you're talking about here? I've not had a server disconnect on steam. I've had many a disconnect in Arma2 and dayz but it wasn't because of steam. You might get disconnected from your friends list but that doesn't remove you from any game.

IF STEAM EVER WENT OUT OF BUSINESS:

"Gabe has already stated in the past that some sort of patch would be released to remove Steam authentication.

Although at this stage you could say that Steam has become too large to go under. If Valve ever ran into difficulty (not going to happen) then I am sure another company would be interested in taking Steam onboard alongside its users."

[celery 8]

How many of you idiots are going to keep saying there are no DVDs? Do you actually know how Steam works? yeah, you have to have Steam to play the game. But you can still buy a DVD.

No more DVDs? Bullshit.

A box that you can't give away and a mockery of consumer rights solely dictated by and for the benefit of Valve Corporation, actual laws be damned? Best of both worlds indeed.

[CriminalMinds 10]

So the modding (management, connecting addons eachother, constribution, participation) will be the same as the current method ?

Can you guarantee this? ...

I am pretty sure it will stay this way, just with the need to run steam in the

background and a optional easier way to install mods, maps, missions etc.

for beginners. You can do it the old fashioned way if you like.

[jpoo78 10]

So the modding (management, connecting addons eachother, constribution, participation) will be the same as the current method ?

Can you guarantee this?

Modding is significant for the ArmA series, seeing @CTI, BAS, FFUR, E(E)CP, ACE, DayZ, wasteland, DLC's (to name very few), so if it wouldn't be possible as it's now,

it would maybe change dramaticly the communityflow, the character and the dimensions of modding which could result in a totally different product and community as well.

And we all know: modding is the lifeline of OFP/ArmA.

It's probably going to wither and die...just like Skyrim's modding did once it hit steam. :rolleyes:

no wait...Skyrim's modding is flourishing! How in the...? And they still have the option of Skyrim Nexus?!

I think you guys should stop blowing this out of proportion like you are.

[old_painless 182]

I don't know really about all this. The "easier" install, hm, AFAIR everytime a patch for A2 came out, Steam support threads on how to install and make it work appeared in large numbers.

As I see it, I really hope BIS has not been "sold to" by Valve, gullied into believing the additional sales due to their "reach" will compensate for the sales disappearing by people who dislike Steam.

I guess I am like, "Ok, so Steam it is, if you say so BI". But having had some experience with Steam on my kids PCs, what would be really helpful would be if a credible, Steam savvy person could go through the "use-cases" of how to use survive Steam with Arma2OA, you know:

1) This is how my favorite Arma launcher (eg. spirited machine's ) works with my Steam install

2) Here you can see how I launch Arma2 without Steam running at all (the "offline" mode)

3) This is how I download a mod from Armaholic and use it with my Steam install

4) This is how I can now easily go online on MP servers through some Steam feature, and join a game which requires a set of mods

Demo's like that would work a long way and reach out to the Steam sceptics such as myself. Not hater, mind you, I just need to be convinced. Steam fanboys need not apply.

-OP

Edited February 21, 2013 by Old_Painless

[simon1279 51]

I hate steam but.... assuming the fact ArmA is a niche product (has been before... OMG i have to write it.... Day-Z), so steam offer the possibility to be more visible and to the general public {"from the developers of ArmA2 and Day-Z :butbut: the brand new military simulation"} else { exc. exc. }; and for sure for marketing it is way better, and about development, there aren't big differences to develop steam and non steam the files packages are the same, the only thing steam users were the last to have patches (i remember 1.56 for OA); if i can i also buy games outside steam digital but non steam, and about steam workshop.... mmmh i don't like it but btw i really can't wait to play arma3 even if i'm afraid to become deluded by it......

The world is in continuous changing, business are changing and politics also, after all from 2001 to today 12 yrs have pased out

[chrisb 196]

Business wise: nice move, follow on the dayz success..

Future wise: probably will set BIS up, in a more financially stable way to the situation that went before..

BIS game titles: well they can shift the slow ones better, or will be able too once everything is sorted with Steam. Steam are renowned for their massively reduced sale prices. Don’t think BIS will make money from that ? think again, if you have a bummer sat on your shelves, that you can’t move (sell), plus don’t have the advertising technique’s to get rid of it, then go where you can get rid, Steam..

Game wise: A3, well juries out, for now..

Overall community wise: A different community will build up around the series, depending of course, on what is available free or to buy, i.e. upgrades to game play etc (think maybe, Iron Front).

For me: well I only play this series, its realistic war/conflict, the only type of game I play now and for many years prior to now. The small group of us who play will decide individually of course. I see us loosing a few, if not, many members. Steam is advertising heavy and will only get worse regards that, they’re a business after all. It’s a platform that serves its purpose well, mainstream online gaming and sales.

I bought a pc just for A3, that’s all that would go on there, I want lean and clean gaming, its how you get the best gaming experience imo. I think perhaps my A2 set-up will move over to my new pc, perhaps, will have to see how things pan out, as they say..

Sad day really, if the series looses serious mod/addon makers, really talented ones, then it will be sad. Things move on, I suppose, maybe I’m too old for all that..;)

[Alo Keen 7]

For those who won't buy A3 because of Steam, all I can say is I'll be having the best 5 minutes of my life before my PC explodes in a massive fireball engulfing me as I laugh from dying at the awesomeness of Arma3.

:D

Some facts:

1) Most Arma II fans Will buy Arma III (as soon as possible),

2) Some Arma II fans Will complain (overreact) about Steam, but they'll buy it (later).

3) Steam Will bring new players - and new fans - to the game, the installation and updating Arma II was quite a mess for many "newcomers".

I don't say Steam is cool, nice or great. I don't actually care.

It's the game I'm interested about.

A fan not buying Arma III just because of Steam, that is really difficult to understand. Anti-Steam fanaticism?

Like all the fanatics, they should open their minds a bit. Give it a try.

Drama queens and co, GTFO. For the guy that wrote that this was the worst day of his life - seriously dude, you need to rethink some things in life. Or end it.

Yes, BI might be going mainstream, or t least deviating from the OFP/ARMA2 enthusiastic dev approach (IIRC, some folks left the company?), but let's bear in mind what happened with Cockmasters and OFP2. It was shit, people didn't hang with the title but rather with the devs that provided them their milsim fix. If ARMA3 turns out to be crap - for whatever reason, Steam, features, mods or lack thereof, whatever - they will lose the players who will turn to some new company or even turn to RL alternatives like paintball or whatnot... IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD FFS :)

@RiE: why did you guys even announce the Steam move... Now children are bickering without purpose (not like BI is gonna change the decision).

Jeez.... and I have work to get done....

[xeno 230]

I've had many a disconnect in Arma2 and dayz but it wasn't because of steam.

Of course, because A2/OA MP/server handling has nothing to do with Steam. If you play a game which makes use of the Steam services and Steam has one of its (many) server problems that's a game over and you are removed from the game.

(I personally also suffer from the problem that either my Teamspeak or in the worst case my router disconnects when I try to use the server browser of a Steamworks game, nothing I can do about).

Xeno

[almanzo 144]

So much bullshit in this thread, it's glorious. :D

Modding will die? Bullshit.

No more DVDs? Bullshit.

ZOMG always on DRM? Bullshit.

Just read the fucking blog post, people. It's all there.

Time will show my friend. People are conserned for what this might do to the only real military simulator developer out there, I am one of those people. I do of course, hope that you are right... But we should be worried by the fact that people like Celery (among others) are pissed off by this. People who have been pioneers in building this community has been voicing their opinions quite high against this. We can't afford to loose them.

It seems people aren't into consumer rights though. Or, to put it in other words, quite a few don't seem to give a damn. Well, I can tell you it matters. It's changing how the internet works, and it's moving more and more away from being free and open every day. Steam is a huge part of this, even though it's far from the worst. I think it's important to mention it.

[Maxzy 12]

How was this related to steam?

Your internet will suck ass even if ArmA3 is on a dvd :p

You do not have to download the game through steam. Just validate it.

And how about to be able to play it? I mean you don't think I'm playing it in single player only? Believe it or not - we have a pretty solid Arma community in our small city on the edge of the wolrd =). So you probably can understand my frustration when I read this:

"It will be possible to run Steam in Offline mode, and still play the game (with the exception of online services obviously, including multiplayer itself)."

[jibemorel 10]

Please BIS I beg you to consider a non Steam version (sprocket preferably) after you got most of your sale. I don't mind waiting for a while.

[CriminalMinds 10]

And how about to be able to play it? I mean you don't think I'm playing it in single player only? Believe it or not - we have a pretty solid Arma community in our small city on the edge of the wolrd =). So you probably can understand my frustration when I read this:

"It will be possible to run Steam in Offline mode, and still play the game (with the exception of online services obviously, including multiplayer itself)."

Running a LAN in offline mode isn't a problem with steam, doing it all the time. And with your bad connection real multiplayer doesn't make any sense.

[maddogx 13]

Time will show my friend. People are conserned for what this might do to the only real military simulator developer out there, I am one of those people. I do of course, hope that you are right... But we should be worried by the fact that people like Celery (among others) are pissed off by this. People who have been pioneers in building this community has been voicing their opinions quite high against this. We can't afford to loose them.

I disagree. This community is full of content creators; some may indeed drop out if they can't get over their aversion to Steam, but there are more than enough to take their place. In the long run, I doubt it will make a difference.

You win some, you lose some.

It seems people aren't into consumer rights though. Or, to put it in other words, quite a few don't seem to give a damn. Well, I can tell you it matters. It's changing how the internet works, and it's moving more and more away from being free and open every day. Steam is a huge part of this, even though it's far from the worst. I think it's important to mention it.

Yes, there are some restrictions when you own a game on Steam. It's a valid point, and one of the reasons why I'm careful about buying games through Steam, though I still don't see any point in trying to boycott it entirely.

Basically I only buy games through Steam if I'm either 100% sure I will be keeping them (in this case it's a no-brainer), or if they're massively reduced in price (i.e. on sale), or when I've checked out enough reviews and videos to be sure the game is worth it.

[froggyluv 2130]

Please BI - lock this thread and move discussion to Steam thread as some of us are still waiting for the Big News today

[nuxil 2]

Im not a big steam fan. i had so many problems with it. mainly when it wants to update itself or games. "the few i have there".

Quick example.

Duh.. like hello steam im sitting and surfing with my browser now. wtf are you doing.

another consern of mine is that. when/if the steam service is unavaileble for some reason. "hacked, ddoesd" or whatever reason.. no one will be able to play multiplayer since you are not able to validate your account.

if i have understood it all correct you need to be online with your steam client to be able to play multiplayer. and only single player will work offline after you been online validated your key.

i would also prefere a digital copy from store.bistudio.com that didnt include steam.

but hey, nothing i can do about except compain :p

[Colossus 2]

Please BIS I beg you to consider a non Steam version (sprocket preferably) after you got most of your sale. I don't mind waiting for a while.

When they have time, I hope they will spread their distribution range too. At least so those who doesn't want/can't have Steam can get an opportunity as well.

[simon1279 51]

I disagree. This community is full of content creators; some may indeed drop out if they can't get over their aversion to Steam, but there are more than enough to take their place. In the long run, I doubt it will make a difference.

You win some, you lose some.

Yes, there are some restrictions when you own a game on Steam. It's a valid point, and one of the reasons why I'm careful about buying games through Steam, though I still don't see any point in trying to boycott it entirely.

Basically I only buy games through Steam if I'm either 100% sure I will be keeping them (in this case it's a no-brainer), or if they're massively reduced in price (i.e. on sale), or when I've checked out enough reviews and videos to be sure the game is worth it.

amen bro !!!