LAMBS Improved Danger.fsm

[redarmy 308]

27 minutes ago, beeper said:

It "doesnt permit" many things, that is why mods exist.

 

I doubt you (and anyone) can define that. It is just suggestion, and author will decide.

 

And i see it as needed

 

Don't get it. Only I can say - I hosting dedicated with about 40 mods (including this, VCom, etc) and never seen CPS less than 40, even on complex missions like KP liberation (about 5mb of script files). Moreover, this function can be optional.

 

Depends of realization.

Well if you see it as needed then you create a script for air vehicles to target empty vehicles.I dont believe this mod touches air units,and its safe to assume its outside the scope of what the author wants considering what he has created so far. And if your loading this AND VCOM and 40 other mods i can only imagine the shitty FPS your all getting.

 

Expecting this mod to meet the needs of a CTI game mode like KP liberation(where yes,empty vehicles can be exploited) is a bit short sighted considering most other scenarios will have empty vehicles and not want them destroyed by AI pilots. Your asking for a very niche and specific feature from a mod whose focus is on something else entirely.

 

 

[diwako 281]

A feature as such would add a whole new layer of what AI needs to handle. The main issue is the behavior how an empty vehicle that no one ever sat in is seen as. Lambs danger uses the vanilla way to spot enemies, which as mentioned already, is not intended or supported.

We would need to tag every vehicle that can be seen as enemy in some way or another, then need to add more assessment stages to manually fire on said target, depending if the group is even, which adds even more overhead as we now need to query over all enemy tagged vehicles, determine if they are a threat, determine if the group can even deal with that target and so on and only then we can script wise order it to deal with that target, taking away all other features until this target has been dealt with.

 

In short a lot of work, maybe without any pay off and very much new behavior which can be seen as bugs by many people.

 

Imo it would be easier to add a scripted module to zeus/script for mission makers can use for this kind of feature.

[froggyluv 1742]

2 hours ago, diwako said:

A feature as such would add a whole new layer of what AI needs to handle. The main issue is the behavior how an empty vehicle that no one ever sat in is seen as. Lambs danger uses the vanilla way to spot enemies, which as mentioned already, is not intended or supported.

We would need to tag every vehicle that can be seen as enemy in some way or another, then need to add more assessment stages to manually fire on said target, depending if the group is even, which adds even more overhead as we now need to query over all enemy tagged vehicles, determine if they are a threat, determine if the group can even deal with that target and so on and only then we can script wise order it to deal with that target, taking away all other features until this target has been dealt with.

 

In short a lot of work, maybe without any pay off and very much new behavior which can be seen as bugs by many people.

 

Imo it would be easier to add a scripted module to zeus/script for mission makers can use for this kind of feature.

 

Its a good idea though and I would assume realistic -wouldnt the main objective for most military operations short of Assassination be to destroy their hardware? I would think the enemy chopper would be a higher asset than the pilot

[KeyCat 127]

Maybe bolt a "invisible target" with attachTo on players vehicle/s could solve the issue in an not so taxing way....

 

Just thinking out loud.....

 

/KC

 

 

[beeper 8]

8 hours ago, redarmy said:

Well if you see it as needed then you create a script for air vehicles to target empty vehicles.I dont believe this mod touches air units,and its safe to assume its outside the scope of what the author wants considering what he has created so far.

I talk about engaging any vehicle which players disembarked from freshly, read carefully. Attack from heli it's just example, it can be any AI unit - tank gunner, or even personnel with AT. I interested only of mod author's opinion, and not somebody assumptions about author's opinion. Especially:

 

8 hours ago, redarmy said:

 And if your loading this AND VCOM and 40 other mods i can only imagine the shitty FPS your all getting.

ORLY?  ))) And this is only mods I left besides my modpack (because of server - launcher data limitation)

 

8 hours ago, redarmy said:

Expecting this mod to meet the needs of a CTI game mode like KP liberation(where yes,empty vehicles can be exploited) is a bit short sighted considering most other scenarios will have empty vehicles and not want them destroyed by AI pilots. Your asking for a very niche and specific feature from a mod whose focus is on something else entirely.

FRESHLY DISEMBARKED! Goddamn you kidding me. It's meaning not to attack any opfor vehicle, empty or not, only spotted with players or already engaged. It's situation possible in any mission.

[redarmy 308]

Is the dynamic artillery broken? In testing i cant seem to get mortars or vehicles to fire,no matter the way i set it up or the ranges of pieces,or enemy to friendlies.

 

Oh i see theres a big delay,seems to work fine but whats the exact safe distance from friendlies?

[jandrews 111]

19 hours ago, beeper said:

I talk about engaging any vehicle which players disembarked from freshly, read carefully. Attack from heli it's just example, it can be any AI unit - tank gunner, or even personnel with AT. I interested only of mod author's opinion, and not somebody assumptions about author's opinion. Especially:

 

ORLY?  ))) And this is only mods I left besides my modpack (because of server - launcher data limitation)

 

FRESHLY DISEMBARKED! Goddamn you kidding me. It's meaning not to attack any opfor vehicle, empty or not, only spotted with players or already engaged. It's situation possible in any mission.

Personally i think this would be a cool feature in general.  Ai pilots should id enemy objects and attack regardless of player interaction.  This may be something you could add as a side script running a loop every few minutes or less.  Not entirely sure as I suck at creating scripts.

Have you done any Google search?

[Synchronized 49]

I notice that VCOM AI attack empty vehicles leaving the sensations that they are denying enemy transportation. Any way to "reverse engineer" that? or colaborate.

[nkenny 912]

@redarmy
Artillery is due a rewrite. There have been been some reports of errors, though these have not been easy to debug. 

 

@Synchronized
Ownership of vehicles is retained for some time. So if a unit leaves a vehicle, but that vehicle is still owned by that side. It will register as a low priority target for enemy forces.  As Diwako states, adding a module to intelligently destroy potential enemy assets would be a massively invasive feature.  Not to mention, it would demand a contextually intelligent AI. :) 

Update
Progress is going well. 2.5 is very much in a playable state. It is based on an entirely new FSM and newfangled tactics engine. Provided we're happy with the performance, I hope to see a release before Christmas. 

-k 

[kremator 1018]

Looking forward to getting my hands on it !

[Gunter Severloh 2938]

@nkenny Hey my good man, you want to tell this guy https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2180676839

either yay or nay on him uploading your Lambs Danger, Lambs RPG, RPGTard_Cup and RPGTard_RHS mods to the workshop before i report him,

stupid shit like this bothers me.

     You got knuckleheads who go ahead and upload a mod without asking permission and then think its ok to say its not their

mod in the description and then say if the author wants me to take it down then contact them.

 

     Really!? What gave this jerry the right to go and upload the mod in the first place, then the dickfor has the audacity (not the sound program)

to state to contact him if you want the mod taken down, WTF!

 

Tell this chump to get off his high f*cking horse to take your hard worked on mod from the workshop, unless of course you gave him

permission then ignore my post here.

 

    Also your mods arent the only mods he uploaded, im having a field day on this dude,

i personally hate thieves i dont care what good intentions are behind it, support the modders in the community or f*ck off!

[drdetroit 75]

1 hour ago, Gunter Severloh said:

@nkenny Hey my good man, you want to tell this guy https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2180676839

either yay or nay on him uploading your Lambs Danger, Lambs RPG, RPGTard_Cup and RPGTard_RHS mods to the workshop before i report him,

stupid shit like this bothers me.

     You got knuckleheads who go ahead and upload a mod without asking permission and then think its ok to say its not their

mod in the description and then say if the author wants me to take it down then contact them.

 

     Really!? What gave this jerry the right to go and upload the mod in the first place, then the dickfor has the audacity (not the sound program)

to state to contact him if you want the mod taken down, WTF!

 

Tell this chump to get off his high f*cking horse to take your hard worked on mod from the workshop, unless of course you gave him

permission then ignore my post here.

 

    Also your mods arent the only mods he uploaded, im having a field day on this dude,

i personally hate thieves i dont care what good intentions are behind it, support the modders in the community or f*ck off!

 

 

I just reported this moron to Steam.  I mean, why do people think they can grab peoples work and post it anywhere they want?  What planet do they come from where this is ok? 

 

I agree, this bugs the hell outta me too.

[sammael 343]

Is there a way (waypoint or script ) to make AI don`t  run in my direction and do not move far from where they are ?

Just so that they shoot back in my direction without rush me

[Synchronized 49]

Is there a way to make AI deploy static weapons like in vcom?

[redarmy 308]

On 1/1/2021 at 4:04 PM, sammael said:

Is there a way (waypoint or script ) to make AI don`t  run in my direction and do not move far from where they are ?

Just so that they shoot back in my direction without rush me

Try put this in the group leaders init

 

this enableAttack false;

Now the mod may overide this,but this stops squad leader issuing move orders to individuals.By default if your squad is on a move WP and they have a line formation,make contact as they arrive to wp,they will all disperse or at least a few will whom squad leader tells to.

 

With this in the leaders init they should stay in their line formation,all of them,and simply fire back at the enemy.There are other ways but again,if the mod decides something else,it will most likely take priority.

 

EDIT:

 

Just jumped in and tested.Can confirm this works well. If read this @nkenny would you mind considering for any future update,not adding anything that could overwrite "enable attack",or leaving it as an optional addition. The mod description does state that it doesnt interfere with waypoints or good mission design,etc,but having groups leave their designated waypoint to chase enemies up to 1km away will cause issues for mission makers.

 

Incidently really looking forward to the next update.

[terox 307]

On 11/17/2020 at 6:12 AM, n0sferatoo said:

Hi,

How can I disable Lambs Danger on specific unit/vehicle in 3D editor?

 

On 11/17/2020 at 9:48 AM, [VW]Wrath said:

There is an option in the units attributes to disable lambs I believe. I don't think it's there in a vehicles atteibutes but it should be under lambs settings in an infantry units.

 

 

So in a scenario where this is run as a serverside mod only, is there a setvariable commands available for example ' Group this setvariable ["LDFSM",FALSE];  'that a mission developer could place in the groups init field to stop the group from running the fsm for specific groups. (Would also help during dynamic group creation as well)

 

 

Apart from that, this is a pretty good improvement to the standard BIS FSM. So thank you for that.

[nkenny 912]

@sammael
A quick fix is to do what redarmy suggests-- setting the group to <group> enableAttack false;   Generally when I set up missions where I need the AI to remain static, I either use the garrison module or manually place AI with 'this disableAI "PATH";' set up. 
 

@redarmy
It is funny you should mention it. EnableAttacks and the attack feature in itself is something we've been experimenting with quite a bit.  I was considering making a video on the topic, but real life is real life. For the next release we remain committed to a seamless integration, but you will see enableAttack disabled at phased intervals or when specific tactical actions are made.  This does increase cohesion quite a bit.  The reason why not to simply disable it is because sometimes, sometimes it actually works really well. The attacking state is good at finding positions to engage from, and the sending out of troops is a nice way making the AI scout.  It doesn't work so well for CQB-- hence, our tweaks. 🙂

 

@terox
There are many ways to disable the AI. This ranges from the individual FSM and the group level "tactics". You can check our wiki (or my youtube channel) for more information, it is possible to do so by variable or checking an eden editor box or by Zeus interface. In short: 

<unit> setVariable  ["lambs_danger_disableAI", true];
will disable the AI on an individual level. 

 

<group> setVariable ["lambs_danger_disableGroupAI", true];

will disable group level actions.

 

Note that the individual actions trigger the group actions. Hence, if you wish to disable the AI for a spawned group-- do so on the individuals. 

 

-k 

[rainbow47 16]

Thanks for the mod.

Can someone tell me where I can find information for using LAMBS with my AI teammates? I am not sure how to activate the Lambs behaviour for them. I feel like so far they behave in a firefight like usual but I could be wrong. To be clear, I am referring to AI team mates which are part of my squad. Thanks

[rainbow47 16]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, rainbow47 said:

Thanks for the mod.

Can someone tell me where I can find information for using LAMBS with my AI teammates? I am not sure how to activate the Lambs behaviour for them. I feel like so far they behave in a firefight like usual but I could be wrong. To be clear, I am referring to AI team mates which are part of my squad. Thanks

 

Nobody?

[drdetroit 75]

14 hours ago, rainbow47 said:

 

Nobody?

 

Go into addon option, then select your key to turn Lambs on/off for your AI squad.  Also, the mission can be setup with Lambs turned on or off at the start.  I suppose you could leave Lambs on the whole mission, as it will not really make a different until your set your awareness to combat mode, but I don't recommend this approach.  Regardless, with Lambs on, I notice my AI squad will not really listen to orders.  I turn on Lambs when I want my AI squad to do whatever they have to do to take out the threat, which is not all the time.  

 

I setup my missions so that Lambs is off for my unit until I turn it on.  Usually only when combat gets so crazy and confusing, maybe getting flanked or taking losses from a MG position, I'll let them loose with combat awareness set then turn on Lambs for my unit - this lets the dogs of war loose!  They will react and assault, using suppressive fire, taking cover, and leap frogging....you will notice the tactical aggressiveness of your AI squad.  Once engagement is over and my guys have killed everything and everyone in the area, I'll turn it off again.

 

Good luck!

DrDetroit

[rainbow47 16]

10 hours ago, drdetroit said:

 

Go into addon option, then select your key to turn Lambs on/off for your AI squad.  Also, the mission can be setup with Lambs turned on or off at the start.  I suppose you could leave Lambs on the whole mission, as it will not really make a different until your set your awareness to combat mode, but I don't recommend this approach.  Regardless, with Lambs on, I notice my AI squad will not really listen to orders.  I turn on Lambs when I want my AI squad to do whatever they have to do to take out the threat, which is not all the time.  

 

I setup my missions so that Lambs is off for my unit until I turn it on.  Usually only when combat gets so crazy and confusing, maybe getting flanked or taking losses from a MG position, I'll let them loose with combat awareness set then turn on Lambs for my unit - this lets the dogs of war loose!  They will react and assault, using suppressive fire, taking cover, and leap frogging....you will notice the tactical aggressiveness of your AI squad.  Once engagement is over and my guys have killed everything and everyone in the area, I'll turn it off again.

 

Good luck!

DrDetroit

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation.  I will try this out in my next mission. 
 

Just a question, when you say combat mode you mean that my AI squad goes into danger state? Is that the same thing? If yes, does LAMBS also get activated when my squad is in stealth state?

[drdetroit 75]

4 hours ago, rainbow47 said:

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation.  I will try this out in my next mission. 
 

Just a question, when you say combat mode you mean that my AI squad goes into danger state? Is that the same thing? If yes, does LAMBS also get activated when my squad is in stealth state?

 

I believe combat mode/danger state are one in the same.  Not sure about stealth mode, probably not though.  Seems like that would, or at least should, be a different state, but I'll have to try it.

[harveysimpson 10]

Can I ask:

 

Can you use this mod in conjunction with any other AI mods?   

 

One of my favourites is bcombat - would I be able to run the two simultaneously? 

[nkenny 912]

@drdetroit
Very adroit. That's exactly how it is intended to run. When you really need the AI to go, setting formation to "FILE" or "DIAMOND/DELTA" helps.  If you really need to get them going. Also turn off lambs danger (with the toggle).  I tend not to use the toggle, but then again, I don't play long 1hr+ sessions with AI squad alone. 

Combat, Stealth and danger.fsm are not identical. I explore the difference in one of my YT videos. In short. It is possible for the danger.fsm to be running, without the unit being in danger or stealth mode.  Danger or stealth mode does add cover-bounding movement however. Which we also touch on.  (allowing longer bounds -- hence better cqb behaviour and speedier movement)

@harveysimpson
Our recommendation is to run it alone. That said, lambs danger fsm is highly configurable and runs seamlessly along with vanilla. Many communities report running it with other AI mods with few if any issues.  My advice is to experiment a bit and use the combination that works for you 🙂

-k 

[nkenny 912]

Milestone reached!

Today we celebrate 100 000 subscribers on Steam Workshop. Wow! I’m both shocked and thrilled.

We’d like to extend our thanks to our subscribers and the many communities that play with our little mod. To the people on our discord that bring suggestions, comments and questions, often highlighting areas where we should communicate better or features that need improvements. To our GitHub contributors that have added features, translations, fixes and functionality. Your wonderful feedback that has helped improve the AI immeasurably. We take great pride and joy in the creating and enhancing your Arma3 experience.

You should all know that every time you are lying in a ditch hearing enemy bullets cut through the air around you. Every time an armoured vehicle opens up and reduces a building to rubble. Every time the enemy breaches a room and clears a building (with you in it!). Every time you are frantically giving first aid to your friends, while the enemy is inexorably manoeuvring on your position. In short, any time the chaos of battle descends. The team and I are cackling with evil glee.

Thanks for playing
Diwako, Jokoho, and nkenny