General Discussion (dev branch)

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

you should use proper terminology instead. People might take you more seriously then.

He made points, ran tests exposing some flaws.

Who exactly are these people who were not taking him seriously because he said "sabot" you?.

You being pedantic. is what I could not take seriously.

Hopefully they can work something out with regards to the heat rounds on the tank. Did I say that right "tank" or is it tracked weapon assault tomb.

[twisted 128]

SABOT DAMAGE REDUCTION IN 1.36

Oh guys come on. You reduce Sabot damage without thinking of the other large caliber rounds?

Quick testing on the 'Air Control Tower' at Altis airport. Distance ca. 50m, angle ca. 90°, firing right in the middle between the windows, firing until building collapses:

40mm HE: 17 rounds

35mm HE: 4 rounds

40mm AP: stopped at 40 rounds (out of ammo), building still has the 'unharmed look'

125mm AP: stopped at 24 rounds (out of ammo), building has the 'slightly damaged look'

Tanks have a (unrealistically) hard time against infantry in buildings anyway. Firing HE into windows is rather ineffective, because it will only harm infantry in the same room. If the enemy is behind the corner in another room, he will remain unharmed, while in real life probably anyone in the whole building would be killed due to the overpressure. Sabot is less effective as in real life, because sabot has zero area damage, you have to hit the enemy directly with the shell or need to take the whole building down, while in real life you could blast holes into the walls and anyone near the impacting sabot round would get injured or killed by shrapnel shooting around.

Now as it takes more than the full ammo capacity of sabot to take down a single building, tanks are pretty much completely useless against infantry hiding in buildings.

Please, fix that. Increase the damage of sabot rounds to buildings again, balance the other large caliber shells and please finally give the sabot rounds a little area damage (see my signature), to simulate the shrapnel on impact.

great point. defiently worthwhile as amra 3 is getting better in many ways, should be this way as well. fundamental.

[malcom86 33]

great point. defiently worthwhile as amra 3 is getting better in many ways, should be this way as well. fundamental.

I agree, but I would like to take the attention on another (even much more) fundamental aspect of Arma 3 improvement: Arma 3 performances.

I post the link of a thread I created, as my intention was to have a feedback from a developer, if possible: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?186405-FPS-decreased-%28more%29

Thanks

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

For me its the massive dysnc issues. That have badly plagued the game since after 132. It clearly is not working what ever you have done.

Me two other guys got in a 4x4. Ghosthawk tried to slingload us. We stayed at airfield in mid air and watched as ghosthawk flew away till the heli was out of site and there were just these slings stretching off, into the distance.

Now it was made clear there was a serious dysync issue after 132, it has not stopped. Is really affecting play. 44 fps and stutters desync like crazy.

---------- Post added at 04:30 ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 ----------

I realise that this is dev tread. But when a hotfix and two patches and the problem gets worse it becomes really frustrating. I cannot seriously be telling my friends to avoid games like assassins creed unity in one breath and then say buy arms3 in another. When it is running like this because of dev updates that broke it and now break it more.

[laxemann 1673]

I can confirm the desyncs.

Even small rounds with 16 players experience them.

[malcom86 33]

Desync confirmed also here, also if I have to say it depends by the server I'm playing on. Some servers have more desync than others, so probably it's server dependant (mostly IMO). This sometimes makes happen weird things like enemies you shooted at literally do not die, instead they "teleport" some meters away and shoot you back leaving you just the time to think "What witchcraft is this ??" :eek:

[gossamersolid 155]

We get desync when the server fps is sitting at 50 (highest possible for dedicated), there's tons of bandwidth available and everybody connected has a low latency. There's no explanation on our side.

I'm sure BIS is working on it and I'm also sure it's a difficult issue to track down and reproduce.

Does anybody else get repeating heal sounds from using the heal action on the medical trucks? It doesn't seem to happen all the time. Not game breaking, just annoying.

[strangere 2]

I generally get less desync in 1.36. 1.34 was crazy desync for me so whatever they did helped. At least in my experience.

Btw. can something be done about vehicles exploding from collision damage? I know there was discussion about in, but did dev ever commented on it?

If fuel gets damaged (is red) vehicle explodes, so could it be done that collision damage doesn't affect fuel? If you crash in high speed you break engine and wheels, fuel damage is not necessary. I guess it could be weird for somebody that fuel doesn't get damaged from crash, but it's better than vehicles constantly exploding from crashing into fences. Maybe it deeper problem, but i wish something would be done about it.

[instagoat 133]

I doubt that overpressure is as bad as people make it seem, especially in damaged buildings. Videos from syria show tanks firing inside alleyways with infantry standing right next to them, people firing RPG-7s from inside closed rooms, firing recoilless rifles like the SPG-9 from inside closed rooms and taking fire closeby. The blast is possibly disorienting and gives a bad headache, but it does not kill you.

The syrians are apparently relying on HEF when using their main guns, the primary effect of that is shrapnel and not blast pressure. And that shrapnel will go through walls, very likely. Cinderblock doesn't stop bullets, even 5.56 will go through no problem.

So, if an HE goes off in the room next to you and all the windows and doors in the house are missing, the air literally just blows through and all that happens is that you are deaf. If the doors are closed you will have trouble when standing near to them, or inside the hit room.

The lethality of many weapons appears to me strikingly hit and miss. Some things that seem kind of minor from an outside perspective make a person fall over dead immediately, and another thing that looks like hell broke loose makes everybody walk away without a scratch.

[DancZer 65]

Damaging player hearing would be a excellent solution.

[2nd ranger 282]

Tweaked: Sounds for pistols

More like totally changed. The rook and P07 are decent now (although the P07 kind of sounds like the Rahim which draws attention to the fact that the Rahim sounds like a pistol. Also, the Rook's reverb is louder than the actual shot). But more importantly, thanks for finally making the ACPC2 not sound like total ass. It's been changed twice since the gun was introduced, and it got worse each time. Now it finally sounds good. I hope this is an indication that some other sounds will get some attention too.

Edited December 8, 2014 by 2nd Ranger

[Brisse 78]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the new pistol sounds. It's like they change them just for the sake of changing something, without actually improving anything.

My biggest gripes are:

They are too differentiated. A conventional pistol will always just sound like a pistol. I'm not saying they should have identical sound effects, but they should at least be similar, and one should not be easily able to distinguish them. It should take a trained listener to be able to pinpoint what kind of weapon is fired.

The environmental part of the sound is too inconsistent. One pistol sounds like its fired in an open field, while another sounds like it's being fired in a forest. Since Arma3 is still not able to dynamically create environmental sounds, it will sound the same everywhere, which means it will feel out of place depending on where the shooter is located.

Closure sounds are played to late. The delay is so huge that the mechanism of the pistol is closed long before the sound comes, and it sounds and feels unnatural.

[james2464 176]

What is this?

Fixed: Incorrect reading of colors for roads

I am not sure if this is a professional solution?

Added: Click on the Play button now temporary disables the Play button for s brief period of time (1 second) to prevent users from launching the game twice when they double-click on this button

[lexx 1363]

So, I just noticed that the GetOut waypoint isn't kicking out the player anymore if he is not leader of the group. Is it just me or a new bug? Made a simple test for that: Ifrit with team leader being the driver. Player starts in cargo. A simple move waypoint to somewhere else, after that a GetOut waypoint. Vehicle drives to the target, leader gets out of the vehicle (and any other ai in the group), player stays in the car, but cursor switches to "action" with some other icon. Now I can manually move out of the vehicle if I didn't locked it up, but I don't want to do this- I want the game to kick out the player.

Anyone can relate?

/Edit: Also occasionally I noticed some really strange drone flying behaviour now. I don't know yet why exactly this happens, but every once in a while they just fly into a random direction and the only way to get them back is to manually fly / control them. Setting waypoints via UAV terminal does nothing.

/Edit²: GetOut waypoint actually works with the Kamysh, but not with the Ifrit, nor Zamak. Seems to work with every vehicle except the ones in the "cars" category.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Lexx

[pils 49]

Addition to the tank round discussion.

Ok, I just found some info about the actual HE-T ammunition which is used in the Arma 3 Slammer: Link.

The infosheet says this shell has two modes:

- explosion on impact

- delayed explosion: the shell will pierce through e.g. the wall of a building and explode inside the room

______________________________

For the 125mm gun of the T100 I found some some real life HE counterpart (which was developed in the 70s, but I guess a modern shell would be at least as effective): Link.

- the shell is supposed to have an area of 90% lethality of 40 x 20m - which is pretty big.

______________________________

I also found out:

- "For example, explosions near or within hard solid surfaces become amplified two to nine times due to shock wave reflection. As a result, individuals between the blast and a building generally suffer two to three times the degree of injury compared to those in open spaces.[6]"

(link)

Which means, yes a part of the overpressure will leave through the windows, but as most surfaces inside a building actually are solid surfaces, the shockwave will get amplified and will be more harmful than outside a building. Approx. 60 (to 80, depending on source) psi or 4 bar overpressure are said to be lethal due to lung damage. That is only twice the pressure of a car tire. I'm not an expert for those things, but I doubt someone will be fine if an HE tank round with 3kg of TNT goes off 3m away in the room just around the corner.

But you're right, the greater danger is probably still the shrapnel.

Please Arma Devs, tweak the tank rounds for us.

(It probably would be enough to just give the HE shells enough penetration to blast through 2 common walls. That would set off 2 explosions inside those widespread houses. One inside the first room, simulating the delayed explosion mode of those shells and one in the room behind, simulating the overpressure blast. Imho that would be reasonable. Only down of that solution is the unrealistically large explosion when hitting the outer surface of the first wall, I guess.

Same thing with the HEAT, but here only 1 wall penetration. Plus a little area damage for the sabot rounds and damage reduction to buildings of the other large caliber rounds (30-40mm) and things would be fine for me.)

Edited December 9, 2014 by pils

[laxemann 1673]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the new pistol sounds. It's like they change them just for the sake of changing something, without actually improving anything.

My biggest gripes are:

They are too differentiated. A conventional pistol will always just sound like a pistol. I'm not saying they should have identical sound effects, but they should at least be similar, and one should not be easily able to distinguish them. It should take a trained listener to be able to pinpoint what kind of weapon is fired.

The environmental part of the sound is too inconsistent. One pistol sounds like its fired in an open field, while another sounds like it's being fired in a forest. Since Arma3 is still not able to dynamically create environmental sounds, it will sound the same everywhere, which means it will feel out of place depending on where the shooter is located.

Closure sounds are played to late. The delay is so huge that the mechanism of the pistol is closed long before the sound comes, and it sounds and feels unnatural.

100% agree

[Gekon 2]

Added: Click on the Play button now temporary disables the Play button for s brief period of time (1 second) to prevent users from launching the game twice when they double-click on this button

A doubleclick is nothing else than a sequence of two separate clicks coming within a set period of time. Microsoft sets the Windows default value to tolerant 500ms.

We want to keep the ability to launch multiple game instances of the game from Launcher's Play button because it is convenient for modders trying things. But we also don't want to confuse people that are used to launch applications in windows by doubleclicking. Therefore the hard limit and a safe tolerance for the sake of touchpad users (can take up to 900ms).

[twisted 128]

Wondering if theres any news on the ragdoll when shot - especially with the markmen dlc in development. be nice to have that as the flinching now does need quite a bit more work and a dlc about being able to shoot well should ideally include good feeback on your shot impacts.

[gliptal 25]

You may want to try TPW FALL for that.

Yay!

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the new pistol sounds. It's like they change them just for the sake of changing something, without actually improving anything.

My biggest gripes are:

They are too differentiated. A conventional pistol will always just sound like a pistol. I'm not saying they should have identical sound effects, but they should at least be similar, and one should not be easily able to distinguish them. It should take a trained listener to be able to pinpoint what kind of weapon is fired.

The environmental part of the sound is too inconsistent. One pistol sounds like its fired in an open field, while another sounds like it's being fired in a forest. Since Arma3 is still not able to dynamically create environmental sounds, it will sound the same everywhere, which means it will feel out of place depending on where the shooter is located.

Closure sounds are played to late. The delay is so huge that the mechanism of the pistol is closed long before the sound comes, and it sounds and feels unnatural.

This is so true. And not to be mean or anything... But that free Minecraft/Dayz spin off Unturned has better pistol sounds...

Also,

Improved: The on-board clock in the Mohawk is fully functional now, because time is money, pilots!

With that, i just remember, that the A-143 Buzzard's instruments don't work. It's still the un-animated Blue Backscreen that was in the ACR mod for Arma 2. It LOOKS BAD. At least re create the screens or something.

[Brisse 78]

Tweaked: Slightly decreased base deflecting values of pistol bullets

Good. Before, you could almost hit yourself when shooting steel targets. :)

Maybe there's room to improve the system even further. A bullet that hits hardened steel at an angle close to 90 degrees, will just disintegrate, not bounce back, or go through. It seems the steel shooting targets in Arma just present two scenarios. Either it penetrates, or it deflects. Steel shooting targets are made of hardened steel. They are very hard to penetrate.

[royaltyinexile 175]

More like totally changed [...] I hope this is an indication that some other sounds will get some attention too.

Due to some slight miscommunication, this work was committed to the public build a little bit earlier than we expected.

It's fair to say we're looking broadly at the configuration of samples (and the samples themselves) for Marksmen DLC, and these tests are a part of that effort.

We should be in a better position to share the goals/scope of this work early next year (perhaps in the form of an OPREP or such) to get more structured, focused feedback!

Best,

RiE

[roberthammer 582]

By the way when you are focusing on pistols too then it would be a good time to fix this issue

because when i see No Bullet Casings out from Pistols in the first person view makes me feel sad

Edited December 9, 2014 by RobertHammer

[supercereal4 29]

Good. Before, you could almost hit yourself when shooting steel targets. :)

I used to clear the steel observation towers by unloading a few pistol mags into the roof to hit the prone enemies :)

[Tyl3r99 41]

By the way when you are focusing on pistols too then it would be a good time to fix this issue

because when i see No Bullet Casings out from Pistols in the first person view makes me feel sad

makes me feel sad you cant see them in the holster let alone bullet casings lol