General Discussion (dev branch)

[NeuroFunker 11]

thanks for your qualified feedback :) We need an official ai-heavy benchmark!

check this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?172012-ai-test

[dale0404 5]

Plenty of sources about how they don't have full documentation on the source behind their engine. I think that plays a big role in if they can even being to fix it or not.

Go on then I will bite, show me where.

[windies 11]

Go on then I will bite, show me where.

Honestly at this point I don't much care about proving my points anymore as it's all just pointless bickering and speculating between defenders and critics, but I will have to search for it again as it was on this forum somewhere.

[dnk 13]

I can't help but comparing it to Arma 2 which could pull this of;

Ofc the Ai in Arma III is much more advanced/precise and I don't think anyone expects their system to be able to handle anything close to this, I sure don't, but still... what can we expect (after further optimization)? 1/5? 1/10? or about 1/18 (which the "current test-mission" that people are referring to uses).

I'm sure BIS is doing everything they can to address the issue and I'm excited to see what else they got in store for us. =)

You know, I always wondered about that video, since even with a relatively recent CPU I can't do more than like 200-300AI in OA before crapping out entirely (in editor, not as client-server). Certainly not with the frames he's getting could I go even half of his AI count. I'm guessing he's playing as a client running off of some amazing server. Even then, I'm not sure there were 1700 AI running at the time he was shooting video. Might've been at mission start, and he might've been getting 5FPS for some time before he began capturing video. I mean, pretty sure if you took BE Warfare (the latest) from OA you couldn't have more than like 500AI before server performance began dipping badly. I'll let an actual server admin comment on that, I'm not sure, but I just severely doubt he managed 1700AI and those framerates, whatever the setup.

Personally, I'd rather have 100-200 good AI than 600-900 bad AI. Mass AI that suck are "fish in a barrel", and offer little more than reactive target practice.

[chrisb 196]

Personally, I'd rather have 100-200 good AI than 600-900 bad AI. Mass AI that suck are "fish in a barrel", and offer little more than reactive target practice.

That's right, my rule of thumb is min-25fps, if it goes below that, then your ai are going to get stupid pretty quick. Around an average of 35-40fps and your fighting the best the game has to offer, which is pretty poor anyway. No one can predict what ai amounts anyone can have, its too reliant on your own personal pc setup. Older pc like my AthlonIIx4 can give me higher than I need, I don't play SP with high ai counts, 150max for A3 (well I don't really play A3), don't try to meet more than 30-40ai at any one time.

Group plays a different thing.

[roberthammer 582]

Where is Ondřej Španěl aka Suma when ArmA 3 needs him , oh wait that other project ...

[Tyl3r99 41]

Where is Ondřej Španěl aka Suma when ArmA 3 needs him , oh wait that other project ...

what what what what

that's fu**ing crazy why did they move him off to another project for when arma needs him the most lol

[das attorney 858]

what what what what

that's fu**ing crazy why did they move him off to another project for when arma needs him the most lol

$30,000,000 and counting says otherwise.

[Tyl3r99 41]

$30,000,000 and counting says otherwise.

ok im lost now, someone explain.

so hes been moved off an unfinished engine pretty much

[maddogx 13]

Guys, this thread is not about DayZ, nor is it about different engines, or documentation, or what Suma happens to be working on at the moment.

Please discuss such things elsewhere.

Edited January 24, 2014 by MadDogX

[das attorney 858]

Rog - will do Maddog, can't blame him though to be honest - must be exciting working on new projects. Just hope some of the good stuff comes over this way too.

[shiftysean 21]

You know, I always wondered about that video, since even with a relatively recent CPU I can't do more than like 200-300AI in OA before crapping out entirely (in editor, not as client-server). Certainly not with the frames he's getting could I go even half of his AI count. I'm guessing he's playing as a client running off of some amazing server. Even then, I'm not sure there were 1700 AI running at the time he was shooting video. Might've been at mission start, and he might've been getting 5FPS for some time before he began capturing video. I mean, pretty sure if you took BE Warfare (the latest) from OA you couldn't have more than like 500AI before server performance began dipping badly. I'll let an actual server admin comment on that, I'm not sure, but I just severely doubt he managed 1700AI and those framerates, whatever the setup.

Personally, I'd rather have 100-200 good AI than 600-900 bad AI. Mass AI that suck are "fish in a barrel", and offer little more than reactive target practice.

The story behind that was (which was on his channel somewhere) that he had a liquidcooled, enourmously overclocked pc that he pushed beyond the limit (he even stated having about 7 fatal crashes because he was pushing it so far) So that video is in NO WAY a realistic presentation of what you'd be able to do on an average pc :P He practically broke his computer at that point, with the best of the best available at the time. Yes it was possible, but with a hugely unstable pc that's gonna break if it keeps it up for longer than an hour.

That is not a fair representation of how many AI can be thrown on a field.

[GodAmongMen 0]

You know, I always wondered about that video, since even with a relatively recent CPU I can't do more than like 200-300AI in OA before crapping out entirely (in editor, not as client-server). Certainly not with the frames he's getting could I go even half of his AI count. I'm guessing he's playing as a client running off of some amazing server. Even then, I'm not sure there were 1700 AI running at the time he was shooting video. Might've been at mission start, and he might've been getting 5FPS for some time before he began capturing video. I mean, pretty sure if you took BE Warfare (the latest) from OA you couldn't have more than like 500AI before server performance began dipping badly. I'll let an actual server admin comment on that, I'm not sure, but I just severely doubt he managed 1700AI and those framerates, whatever the setup.

Personally, I'd rather have 100-200 good AI than 600-900 bad AI. Mass AI that suck are "fish in a barrel", and offer little more than reactive target practice.

I do agree with you on that, 100-200 good AI in a game like this is way better than 600-900 bad AI. His machine was a total monster. That being said, I wonder how many he would be able to handle in Arma III, would be VERY interesting to know.

That is not a fair representation of how many AI can be thrown on a field.

Very true, I just used the video as a way of saying that it was possible on an extremely high-end PC, as it stands now we seem to be struggling with 100, I'm sure some of you guys got a decent rig yourselves. I hope he posts something similar in Arma III so we can make some kind of comparison. :)

[shiftysean 21]

Very true, I just used the video as a way of saying that it was possible on an extremely high-end PC, as it stands now we seem to be struggling with 100, I'm sure some of you guys got a decent rig yourselves. I hope he posts something similar in Arma III so we can make some kind of comparison. :)

true, it would be intresting to see if he can manage 1000 AI's in arma 3 by turning his pc in the NASA supercomputer:P

[NeuroFunker 11]

Honestly at this point I don't much care about proving my points anymore as it's all just pointless bickering and speculating between defenders and critics, but I will have to search for it again as it was on this forum somewhere.

then your words have no weight, you claim something without backing it up, simply silly. Lika a grandma sitting on a bench and telling stories, nobody listens to.

[jumpinghubert 49]

I do agree with you on that, 100-200 good AI in a game like this is way better than 600-900 bad AI. His machine was a total monster. That being said, I wonder how many he would be able to handle in Arma III, would be VERY interesting to know.

Very true, I just used the video as a way of saying that it was possible on an extremely high-end PC, as it stands now we seem to be struggling with 100, I'm sure some of you guys got a decent rig yourselves. I hope he posts something similar in Arma III so we can make some kind of comparison. :)

here we go, sir:

96AI @ 31fps on open field with a 3570k @ 4,9 GHZ and 2666Mhz ram with sharp timings......fuckyeah :p

I assume the 1700AI-Video was done with faked parameters...something like Ai-Skill @ 0,0000000001 or similar :D

[Tyl3r99 41]

im going to try as much AI as possible and see if I can crash the game... ill let everyone know the amount of Ai I have before It simply crashes.

[NeuroFunker 11]

im going to try as much AI as possible and see if I can crash the game... ill let everyone know the amount of Ai I have before It simply crashes.

Don't forget about to try CPU/RAM/GPU usage just in case.

[das attorney 858]

Has anyone found issues with "groundWeaponHolder"?

If you spawn one with a few magazines added to it, then take something from it, the option to check inventory disappears. Then you can't interact with it again.

This was ok on the last stable build and broken on dev, but now with Stable updated for the campaign, it's broken on stable too.

Will set up a ticket when I get home.

[windies 11]

then your words have no weight, you claim something without backing it up, simply silly. Lika a grandma sitting on a bench and telling stories, nobody listens to.

More like a crazy guy holding up a "repent the end is near sign" and then the world ending the day after he dies.

[bad benson 1733]

Go on then I will bite, show me where.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131427/postmortem_bohemia_interactive_.php?print=1

the same thing has been mentioned plenty of times on the forums about recent work with especially the AI. it's mostly based on instagoat's talks with the devs at the gamescom.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?137130-Arma-3-hands-on-Gamescom-2012!&p=2210340&viewfull=1#post2210340

that's why the devs were specifically asking for detailed repro/debug missions. because the core of the AI is from back then and it's hard to know what does what to waht effect. the situation might get better but it's certainly a factor.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Bad Benson

[benjamin1 10]

Did anyone notice that if your profile name matches one of the story actors, it's called out? i discovered it by coincidence yesterday, as my PC name is Ben and my profile is Ben on default, i was called out "Ben! attack that man" scared the hell out of me lol.

EDIT!

I'm such an egomanic!, they say 'Ten!' instead of Ben, but with the broken Altian English it's hard to distinguish i mean, listen to this: http://youtu.be/pEtKzDL8tnM

Edited January 27, 2014 by Benjamin1

[barakokula31 10]

Did anyone notice that if your profile name matches one of the story actors, it's called out? i discovered it by coincidence yesterday, as my PC name is Ben and my profile is Ben on default, i was called out "Ben! attack that man" scared the hell out of me lol.

That's really cool! I wish my name was voice-acted :p

[froggyluv 2136]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131427/postmortem_bohemia_interactive_.php?print=1

the same thing has been mentioned plenty of times on the forums about recent work with especially the AI. it's mostly based on instagoat's talks with the devs at the gamescom.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?137130-Arma-3-hands-on-Gamescom-2012!&p=2210340&viewfull=1#post2210340

that's why the devs were specifically asking for detailed repro/debug missions. because the core of the AI is from back then and it's hard to know what does what to waht effect. the situation might get better but it's certainly a factor.

Yeah I remember hearing this also but I don't think it's like ancient aramaic code that's impossible to break -more like it's deep rooted and fragile like a house of cards. Personally I still see huge improvement as far as infantry is concerned where OFP was like watching two flocks of birds in wedge formation duke it out, Arma1 being worse due to the new complex urban structures "Can't get there!" was all too common. Arma1 was also terrible because cover just meant being near something. Arma2 improved AI alot with AI finally able to go to precise location by inches rather than meters which made a huge difference as well as leaning out from corners. Problem was they still got stuck by seemingly trivial ground objects that they couldn't step over and bridges were a bitch. Arma 3 they can now move thru intricate townscape pretty damn well and are not hindered by things like low walls, rocks and use cover a little better as well. Sure theres still problems but I wouldn't go as far as to say the AI has not advanced, at least not infantry wise.

[SaOk 112]

Netcode seems to be very much better than two months ago. Before I could play my COOP mission only 5 minutes before it lagged and exploded. Now the same mission version works smooth without bigger problems (just some issues for me to update). Looking very good. :ok: