General Discussion (dev branch)

[jumpinghubert 49]

We have recently fixed AI path planning as the AI soldiers sometimes weren't planning their paths properly. The drawback is that it now takes more time which obviously is not good - we are looking into possible optimizations. But note that it shouldn't be very noticeable in normal missions - your test mission is rather specific as it simultaneously spawns a lot of AIs and they begin their simulation and path planning all together.

thanks for the answer. To add some more information on my benchmission:

-the 20% performance gap stays the complete testing time of 3 minutes (after that time half of the ai is dead :p)

-all ai is in search&destroy modus in open field without trees or other statics like houses.

To be constructive it would make sense to introduce a benchmark wich simulates a sp-scenario.

[MavericK96 0]

Pretty much echo's how I feel and the major question I have which is why the AI can't be multithreaded if they are this big of a performance drain.

Yeah...and given that ALL computing is headed towards (actually, it's pretty much already at) lower speed, multi-core systems, there is nothing to be gained by dragging feet on this issue. It needs to be addressed sooner rather than later for the sake of the franchise.

[jumpinghubert 49]

Just to prove that that benchmark was bullshit, here is a screenshot of me playing in a town with a firefight of 57 against 50 units (grouped in default squads), with 42FPS on a slower CPU. (i5 3750@default)

This also includes scripts running on all groups making them look for good places in buildings to fire at the enemy, which is quite heavy on the CPU.

http://s21.postimg.org/ttbgzw8lf/aifps.jpg

Groups are spawned every few seconds if the unitcount drops below 50 per side. Pausing the game increases my FPS by about 10FPS.

EDIT: Some TPW mods running in the background, though they are relatively efficient. Also, i was not running Kerbal Space Program at the same time, i just suck at saving screenshots. :)

nice to hear you have better luck with a non-bullshit-scenario like mine :p without the possiblity to compare with older version of the game (LOL). I never said my "bench" is representative for small custom missions. It "simulates" heavy firefight so its representative for bigger custom missions....is that bullshit?

Edited January 23, 2014 by JumpingHubert

[Tyl3r99 41]

or like someon else said.... multi threaded AI

[dnk 13]

So, what number of AI are we entitled to with a modern CPU? I guess 100 isn't enough. So is it 200? 500? 1,000? How many virtual companies and brigades should we be expected to play with on a home computer?

And how good of AI are we entitled to with each number? How much will we complain when our 500 AI move like headless chickens and struggle to follow basic formations?

And what should we prefer, 500 crappy stupid AI or 100 mediocre silly AI? I suppose 1,000 near-human AI, right?

***

Agreed that the series can't really go one more iteration without multithreaded AI. Actually, it's probably necessary for the current iteration (at least it'd be very nice to have). I still think the biggest, and thorniest, issue is that the render and sim steps aren't parallel, but God knows how hard that is to pull off...

[antoineflemming 14]

I just wonder how many more games BI will try to put out using this engine before they begin to try to build a new one from the ground up. And before anyone mentions COD, their engine is really so simple they'll probably milk that engine for a while. RV doesn't have that luxury.

[calin_banc 19]

So, what number of AI are we entitled to with a modern CPU? I guess 100 isn't enough. So is it 200? 500? 1,000? How many virtual companies and brigades should we be expected to play with on a home computer?

And how good of AI are we entitled to with each number? How much will we complain when our 500 AI move like headless chickens and struggle to follow basic formations?

And what should we prefer, 500 crappy stupid AI or 100 mediocre silly AI? I suppose 1,000 near-human AI, right?

***

Agreed that the series can't really go one more iteration without multithreaded AI. Actually, it's probably necessary for the current iteration (at least it'd be very nice to have). I still think the biggest, and thorniest, issue is that the render and sim steps aren't parallel, but God knows how hard that is to pull off...

Thousands or tens of thousands, depending on your own GPU/API -

[Varanon 892]

Pretty much echo's how I feel and the major question I have which is why the AI can't be multithreaded if they are this big of a performance drain.

I wonder if there is an underlying, deeply "entrenched" reason behind the lack of real multi-threading in Arma...

(slightly off-topic)I've been working with LibreOffice source code for some time, and I noticed that their user interface is inherently single-threaded, even going as far as enforcing it with a mutex that every user interface call (in vcl) must take). Part of it is probably the legacy of older Windows versions, but the whole design is centered around this idea. I wonder if something similar is true for Arma ?

For example, when executing scripts, even "threaded" (i.e. spawning code through spawn), they seem to be running only one "thread" at a time. There's no method of synchronization between "threads" necessary nor possible, except "joins" by waiting for the execution of one script/spawned code to end. Given that a lot of the underlying engine is using the scripting engine (I think this is true even for the AI, probably the FSM execution, too), is the scripting engine inherently single-threaded and is that the reason for the bad scaling of Arma towards multiple cores ?

[Tyl3r99 41]

multithreading would be a huge step for arma but like that will happen lol

[GodAmongMen 0]

So, what number of AI are we entitled to with a modern CPU? I guess 100 isn't enough. So is it 200? 500? 1,000? How many virtual companies and brigades should we be expected to play with on a home computer?

And how good of AI are we entitled to with each number? How much will we complain when our 500 AI move like headless chickens and struggle to follow basic formations?

And what should we prefer, 500 crappy stupid AI or 100 mediocre silly AI? I suppose 1,000 near-human AI, right?

I can't help but comparing it to Arma 2 which could pull this of;

Ofc the Ai in Arma III is much more advanced/precise and I don't think anyone expects their system to be able to handle anything close to this, I sure don't, but still... what can we expect (after further optimization)? 1/5? 1/10? or about 1/18 (which the "current test-mission" that people are referring to uses).

I'm sure BIS is doing everything they can to address the issue and I'm excited to see what else they got in store for us. =)

[13islucky 10]

AAF Reinforcements was considered a DLC? What, like the Campaign is considered a DLC? I thought it was just a fancy name for an update. It's not a DLC like BAF, PMC, or ACR (among other things, fancy logos, separate campaigns, new characters, vehicles, aircraft, etc). Maybe that's what he means by DLC.

I think that you have 'expansion' in mind, DLC literally is stuff for the game that you download. I think that even updates are considered DLC, technically speaking.

[Damian90 697]

Animated skirt plates for Panther and Cheetah

NATO supplies of instant glue for side skirts of Slammers have been depleted

Animated plate selections for other Slammer variants

I wonder what does that means? It means that side skirt plates are animated and move when vehicle moves, or that plates are changed randomly on spawned vehicles similiar to AAF "Kuma" camo cover for side and rear slat armor?

Anyone can confirm?

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I wonder what does that means? It means that side skirt plates are animated and move when vehicle moves, or that plates are changed randomly on spawned vehicles similiar to AAF "Kuma" camo cover for side and rear slat armor?

Anyone can confirm?

Haven't had time to play the dev branch patches recently, but I assume they've introduced this little detail that Dwarden tweeted about before Christmas:

https://twitter.com/FoltynD/status/414111790524403712

[Damian90 697]

Aaaa, that is interesting. :)

[papanowel 120]

Haven't had time to play the dev branch patches recently, but I assume they've introduced this little detail that Dwarden tweeted about before Christmas:

https://twitter.com/FoltynD/status/414111790524403712

It's already working in the stable branch ;)

[NeuroFunker 11]

what about t-100, at least t-90 had moveable plates as well if i remember right.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------

I tried again to play the campaign but it is simply impossible to play. The game slows down to a crawl, getting at most 3-7 FPS when firefights break out. When I press ESC, it goes up to 35.

At this point. the game is broken. This has to be fixed soon. It's just disturbing that the slowdowns are apparently caused by AI actually doing what it is supposed to do.

what mission, what are your system specs?

[Tonci87 163]

I recorded it!

Sadly Bandicam fucked up the recording and the video stutters a little bit. But I had very solid performance ingame so it can´t have anything to do with that. As you can see the bullets pass through the guys head.

Additional Mods used: bCombat, JSRS, Blastcore.

The guy surrendered because of bCombat, sadly everyone in this camp has to be dead to continue the mission. So I went on and killed everybody who surrendered, with pistol shots to the face. I couldn´t kill this guy though. I immediately paused and launched Bandicam to record this.

What do we get from this?

1. It does happen!

2. Sometimes it is only one body part, sometimes more than one.

3. It isn´t affiliated to mods since not a single one of those mods can do such a thing.

4. We don´t know why it happens

[Bouben 3]

I recorded it!

Sadly Bandicam fucked up the recording and the video stutters a little bit. But I had very solid performance ingame so it can´t have anything to do with that. As you can see the bullets pass through the guys head.

Additional Mods used: bCombat, JSRS, Blastcore.

The guy surrendered because of bCombat, sadly everyone in this camp has to be dead to continue the mission. So I went on and killed everybody who surrendered, with pistol shots to the face. I couldn´t kill this guy though. I immediately paused and launched Bandicam to record this.

What do we get from this?

1. It does happen!

2. Sometimes it is only one body part, sometimes more than one.

3. It isn´t affiliated to mods since not a single one of those mods can do such a thing.

4. We don´t know why it happens

Thanks for documenting this. It was bothering me for a while already.

[f2k sel 164]

I had an issue like this a while back when you switched unit, it only took damage when shot in the legs.

I haven't tested A3 for some times but the video is close to what I was getting.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13736

[antoineflemming 14]

I think that you have 'expansion' in mind, DLC literally is stuff for the game that you download. I think that even updates are considered DLC, technically speaking.

Sure about that? I consider BAF, PMC, and ACR to be 'DLC' (as in DLC dependent on another vanilla game, this one being OA), and OA to be a standalone 'Expansion Pack'. AAF Reinforcements was just an update with a fancy name. And the main catch is this: You have the option of whether or not to install DLC (you can choose not to install DLC). You don't have a choice with a regular update, which AAF Reinf. was. Besides, things like AAF Reinf. and the Campaign Episodes are things that should have, and would have, been included at release, but that BI ran out of time to complete before the release date. Same with the upcoming jets. I don't think any of that is considered DLC. So I think that's what he meant when he said "no DLC". But I want to see some major improvements in AI (at least in commanding) before DLC.

[Dwarden 1125]

can you get me which models / soldiers this 'no head' hit detection bug affects?

[Alwarren 2767]

what mission, what are your system specs?

It doesn't matter which one. All of them are unplayable, even the Survive missions that were fine before. It's the game not my system.

[pappi_man 0]

I haven't played ArmA 3 since it got released full. Is there any news with Multiplayer Save Game feature? Something that we had in ArmA 2 and worked almost perfectly. I really want to go back to playing good ol' long missions without having worrying about resetting entire mission.

[Tyl3r99 41]

BI have you looked into cryengine? i thought id actually ask...

[NeuroFunker 11]

It doesn't matter which one. All of them are unplayable, even the Survive missions that were fine before. It's the game not my system.

thats weird, cause most missions if not all are playble for me.