Arma feedback thread - based on 1.09

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

i stoped playing arma since COD4, UT3 and Crysis, so i just checked it without big hopes. as for me it looks worse now and the overall control feeling, is still the same and not suited for any kind of cqb, which should be the basic of all shooter games. the trees look really worse from far while the fps isn't really better but i never cared anyway with my OC'd 8800GTX. The sky is flickering a little bit from blue to black than i got shot and it started to lag while under fire. -> Alt & F4 - cya in arma2...

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]I.E.: After a mission is finished and i have a bunch of guy on the server, some might not be on TS. I usually ask for miss requests. Now it's impossible to what they want, as i need to be in their same squad.

This is not user friendly at all. I think global chat in the lobby and when everyone is waiting the admin to choose a missions is best way to go.

Sorry, but you're misunderstanding. EVERYONE on the server will see the green group chat when in the lobby, because EVERYONE is considered to be in the same group at that point. The issue you are citing does not actually exist.

As to the VOIP - once again, this is a beta release. Testing VOIP is not over. If it's not working in the final release, yeah, gripe about it. In the beta, it is more productive to try to figure out why it isn't working, find ways to reproduce the issues, and get it looked at by BIS.

[Dwarden 1124]

speaking of VOIP is there way to disable it clientside wise ?

by "disableVoN=1;"

especially with these random BSOD issues floating around

btw. what's purpose of these ? forum search nothing, biki nothing

"singleVoice=0;

playerVoice=0;"

also i would like to ask if there was done anything about the maximal number of 2D/3D (atm 16/16) sounds

this was discussed nearly year ago but silence since then ...

what i mean si ability to define custom number of sounds 2D/3D for these who got powerful CPU(s) and AudioCards (e.g. X-fi with 127/127) ...

* yes i'm aware that use more than 96 is not recommended

it should be quite easy to add this into config file la

2Dsounds=16;

3Dsounds=16;

btw.

how exactly works VON in ArmA does it add positional 3D sound source for each speaking player

or only 2D sound source (left/right/mono)

or it's mixing them into single 2D / 3D source to keep channel load low?

increasing number of 2D/3D sounds then may improve it's quality too (depends really on how it's VON done)

[DaSquade 0]

@Dslyecxi: Don't get me wrong and i might have come off to harsh (seams to be a trend).

It can be a fact that VIOP is much better regarding more then XXX players over TS. I'm no techn or have any knowledge about that, so i guess i have to beleave you.

Nor did i have a dedicated server, time, knowledge to go figuer out what exactly is causing all these problems with VOIP. But i guess some are on the right track that on 'open' servers JIP screws things up. But if not mistaken we encountered simular issues even on 'closed' server with maybe a maximum of 15 players.

I'm refurring to GOL server witch sometimes locks server. Maybe they can provide more info regarding their server settings and connection.

->I'm just posting (feedback) what i'm expericing with the current availible beta. I'm extremly glad the public gets the change to test the beta's aswell as there is still some difference between beta testers envirement and day in-out use (public servers with it comers and go-ers).

Regarding the fact that you point out VOIP offers more then TS. Again don't get me wrong, maybe i'm simply missing what it actually is all about.

Quote[/b] ]My only guess is that you play gametypes where VOIP wouldn't matter to begin with

COOP all the way here. Don't blame me most OPEN servers apparently only offer rambo type missions (EVO-DOMINATION etc) witch seams to only atract rambos .

It only offers me two options:

Connect to one of these servers and make the best of it (many players, small or no dissapline).

Connect to 2-3 player servers...

What i mean is i'm all up for some form o dissepline and great teamwork. Armaholic (currently down due to hardware problems) and GOL (thanks for allowing me during LOCKED or PRIVATE sessions).

I'm happy for you you are part of a big family (clan), but if you want please share with me what VOIP offers what TS doesn't (wisper keys and more structured channels comes to my mind in TS).

Again i haven't experimented with VOIP that much (due to the fact it was only working at times for me, including crapping incomming sound).

Quote[/b] ]In-game VOIP is a huge boon when you're dealing with a playercount of above, say, 25 or so.

Please post names of server that make use of proper teamwork (where VOIP makes a difference).

If your list is bigger then 10, i will be silinced . No offence, but you make it sound BIS partly added it on your clans request. I mean, lets face it. The actual MP playing cummunity is small. Overall if you find a +25 playerlist server, it is a meeting place for the rambos who don't need this VOIP. Did you actually ever join that kind of server? Chat was a dissaster, now my screen if a flashlight with names flashing up (player1 says...+player2 says...list goes on on screen). I know we mean it good, but at least TS offered a safe place where only people with some dissipline joined to speak or just be silent if needed.

Anyway, i do hope VOIP in the final version works as planned, but some of the above mentioned stuff will simply doesn't make it what it could be (SPAM over voice instead of CHAT?).

I agree and i'm all up for COMMUNICATION, just think TS covered it pretty good and BIS didn't had to extra develop that feature, while other things would could of been developed. I mean, i don't think BIS will gain some now customers because they have a desent VOIP now.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]I'm happy for you you are part of a big family (clan), but if you want please share with me what VOIP offers what TS doesn't (wisper keys and more structured channels comes to my mind in TS).

VOIP allows for:

1. Direct Speaking - Players talking on this can be heard speaking from where they are standing, with the volume being based on their distance from you. This is enormously powerful and is a very immersive way to communicate. This alone has been the single most significant teamplay-enhancing aspect of ArmA compared to OFP. Imagine how useful it would be in any kind of game type to walk up to anyone in the environment, talk, and know that they will hear you.

2. Group chat - VOIP that is based on the in-game group you are in, automatically. Very useful in situations where you want to say something to your group but not anyone else. TS does not offer this unless you subdivide channels, at which point things become more complicated.

3. Vehicle chat - VOIP based on the vehicle you're in, automatically. Same as group chat - this is very useful and relies on integration with the game that is not possible in Teamspeak.

Quote[/b] ]No offence, but you make it sound BIS partly added it on your clans request.

VOIP has been a part of BIS' games since Operation Flashpoint. It has been in need of bugfixing for YEARS. Excuse me if I would like to see it actually work the way it was intended to work. There is an enormous amount of potential there and I personally am willing to invest the time and effort into testing it to try to bring it up to speed.

Quote[/b] ] now my screen if a flashlight with names flashing u

Complain to the server admins, there's a server config option to turn that off. Even when it is on, it only takes up one line of text.

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, i do hope VOIP in the final version works as planned, but some of the above mentioned stuff will simply doesn't make it what it could be (SPAM over voice instead of CHAT?).

There are annoying people in every game ever released. Utilize the mute feature (did you know there's a mute?) and move on. That's a horrible reason to not like VOIP. Idiots will spam Teamspeak as well, the only difference is that there's an entry barrier into doing it because of the user-unfriendly need to figure out the proper TS server and connect to it.

I am reluctant to continue discussing this with you based upon your self-proclaimed lack of experience with VOIP in ArmA. I hope what I've said has been even vaguely enlightening.

[DaSquade 0]

Quote[/b] ]I am reluctant to continue discussing this with you based upon your self-proclaimed lack of experience with VOIP in ArmA. I hope what I've said has been even vaguely enlightening.

I'm glad you tried to explain it a bit more and i'm happy you still take my (harsh) feedback friendly .

->I'm still playing BIS games, because it is the only thing that kept me interested all these years in this type of game, witch no other dev. brought on the market untill current days. So even if my critics and feedback sound harsh, i try to give it a possitive and constructive twist.

1. Direct Speaking: Was more or less aware of how it worked (distance etc). Haven't much noticed during my play due to the stat of VOIP at those point, but that is offtopic atm.

Well, "single most significant teamplay-enhancing aspect of ArmA", i agree but honestly...i can't see how it actually produces anything value beside a RL part. I mean, somehow ok it is RL, but i want my coms clear. I don't want to be forced to SCREAM here in the room so an other teamplayer on the other side of the road or after can hear me clearly (understand? Keep it simple but effective?).

->Pro over TS, afaik everybody can hear it who is nearby (non group players and enemy). RL and userfriendly yes.

2. Group chat: indeed an alround pro as it does it automaticly compaired to TS where you need to arrage your players over Channels. I noticed on GOL this is only a mather of a few seconds. Indeed when you talk big clans like yours...this is a welcome feature.

3. Vehicle chat: same as Group chat. User friendly and auto.

Well i agree once BIS brings a stable and proper working VOIP it can be a good thing, especially since it all gets done automaticly. Maybe a suggestion: allow players to keybind channels. I already noticed during 'action' this can be a bit frustrating if you speaking with crew and then need to speak with group and then back to crew (multiple tab + in stress situation this results in passing the correct channel etc).

If this could be done i think it would combine the quickness of TS wisperkeys? with the userfriendlyness of the channel use and assignment.

Maybe an HQ channel could be added, mather of having a clean chain of command channel or how do you guys share fireteam leaders coms?

EDIT: How about autocreated subgroup channels in case you split your team with the ingame assign command?

Quote[/b] ]did you know there's a mute?

Ah nope, thanks for saying , but yeah not a great concept. I know it was a bad point to bring up (SPAM and the JIP rambo servers). I need to life with it, but it is the daily fact.

Quote[/b] ]Complain to the server admins, there's a server config option to turn that off.

Again didn't knew. But yeah that is server related. Might need to get used to it. Fact is i'm using my secondairy monitor for TS. I want to keep my FOV as clean as possible.

->Christmass wish: VOIP on secondairy screen BIS (ala TS bulps lights)?

Anyway, time will proove what VOIP brings. I'm all up from COMS, more userfriendly use and an overall improvement of gameplay.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ] Maybe a suggestion: allow players to keybind channels.

This has been possible since at least 1.05 if not earlier.

Quote[/b] ]i can't see how it actually produces anything value beside a RL part. I mean, somehow ok it is RL, but i want my coms clear. I don't want to be forced to SCREAM here in the room so an other teamplayer on the other side of the road or after can hear me clearly (understand? Keep it simple but effective?).

Any player can talk to any other player simply by standing near them and speaking. That's the value. There is no "need to scream to be heard" with the direct speaking VOIP. If you have people split into more than one TS channel, the value of this should be clear. My group doing a coop mission can span five or six (or more) TS channels, which would make communication between low-level elements (ie: Fireteam members) difficult if the two people trying to talk were from different squads. This aspect of VOIP addresses that problem very, very well.

Quote[/b] ]2. Group chat: indeed an alround pro as it does it automaticly compaired to TS where you need to arrage your players over Channels. I noticed on GOL this is only a mather of a few seconds. Indeed when you talk big clans like yours...this is a welcome feature.

It's useful beyond the "user-friendly" aspect of it. My group establishes TS channels by squad. We use the "Group" VOIP to talk within each element (which is a fireteam, one "in-game" squad, three fireteams plus a squad leader element make up one full squad), and use the TS channel to talk to the entire squad. So, Bravo One (first fireteam, Bravo squad) can use Group VOIP to talk to everyone in that fireteam. They can then use TS to talk to everyone in Bravo squad. TS does not allow for that kind of hierarchy, and even if it did, it would not be flexible enough and it would not be integrated into the game as ArmA's VOIP is.

Quote[/b] ]3. Vehicle chat: same as Group chat. User friendly and auto.

It makes things much easier when dealing with vehicles in general. Loading people into helos from different squads, for example, is much simpler now - they can all discuss helo-specific plans during the flight, which everyone in the helo can hear. The pilot/gunners can talk to the passengers, the passengers can talk amongst themselves, etc. There is no comm barrier caused by Player A being in TS channel 1 while Player B is in channel 2 and the pilot is in channel 3.

Your two suggestions (HQ channel and second-screen VOIP) are probably out of the scope of ArmA1. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them.

[SpaceReverend 0]

First of all i must apologise. This has not got much to do with 1.09 but i couldn't find any other place to write this so be free to move this wherever this belongs. I'm very frustrated about BIS policy towards us(me) players. If you're going to have a good time playing ArmA online, you got to watch forums like vulture hunting for corpses. I like Arma, i really do, as a matter of fact, it's maybe the best freaking game in decade. Just so sick of this waiting. Waiting BIS to repair these bugs that haunt you wherever you go in arma. I just want to play and have fun with friends, not to stalk in forums all day long to find what is the best performance and why i suddenly die while driving a motorcycle etc. But i have to do this. I don't want to act like a prick (like i do) but please BIS, respect the community and take some real action to improve the gaming experience. Im sure you have bigger problems but this is just my humble request.

Youre doing a helluva good work but i feel that like QG was a little disappointment. It was like community mod that cost 32€ offering only few new missions and weapons already included in 1.08 update.

Lets hope that after 1.09 final release i wont have to write again. Merry christmas and a happy new year to all ArmAholics!

[[aps]gnat 28]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

ArmA 1.08

            Norm     Zoom1    Zoom2  

---------------------------------------

Test_1   28         29          34

Test_2   32         31          35

ArmA 1.09 Beta

            Norm      Zoom1     Zoom2  

----------------------------------------

Test_1    34         34          37

Test_2    34         33          36

...................

ArmA settings:

Resolution: 1280 x 960

View Distance: 2400 m

Terrain detail: Very High

Objects detail: High

Texture detail: Very High

Shading detail: Very High

Postprocess effect: Low

Anisotropic filtering: Normal

Shadow detail: Very High

Anitaliasing: Normal

Blood: High

Just a post on something I thinks worth mentioning .....

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>- TERRAIN DETAIL

- ANTIALIASING</span></span>

These are 2 setting that I consider have low visual effect for a high FPS hit

Consider....

- Changing TERRAIN DETAIL down to NORMAL as it generally only increases grass/weeds radius and shapes the terrain a *little* better. But from VH to Nor can be around 8 FPS up.

- Getting used to ANTIALIASING down on LOW or even DISABLED. Again another high FPS hit (5+) for generally limited value ingame / reduced playability. (I did it because I hate the look of the powerlines with it enabled)

Anyway, just try it, it may help.

[trufret 0]

Problem with ammo not reloading fully seems to not be limited to just vehicle mounted MG's. Any vehicle weapon system that uses magazines if affected ie. BRDM-2 ATGM ect.

also would it be possible to allow the loading of a fresh magazine in a vehicle by pressing your reload key. right now it seems the only way to get to the next magazine is to completely expend the first one.

Add another vote for the ability to set the tree's back to how they were in 1.08 for the people who have systems that can handle it. the crazy tree morphing is really annoying if your system doesn't need it for playability

[Dwarden 1124]

GNAT terrain detail shows it's problem with viewdistance beyond 1500 (2000) meters ...

in scope you can then see e.g. soldiers on hilltop but in reality it's behind the hilltop (with TD set to High you can't see them correctly)

simply terrain geometry detail at distance at normal may cause little issue

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

Recoil: I think some would call it a "feature", not a bug - but I agree that the recoil is now _very_ wrong on most weapons - MG recoil _downwards_ for instance - but even the normal rifles have very little recoil now - this is way too "easy" now IMO, nobody can fire those rifles with the arcadish amount of recoil in RL. TBO I far preferred the recoils _as they were_ as to me they made sense.

I'd also confirm some earlier posts regarding the AI hearing - they are now virtually stone deaf - we know a balance between realism and playability is difficult to achieve - but this has moved too far the opposite way - first we had bat-like sound location accurate (seemingly) to the millimetre, now they are deaf and ignoring you unless you are actually visible to them. Bit more tweaking needed in the balance between audio and visual responses is still required here!

Tanks/vehicles gunners accuracy against helicopters seems to have been increased to the point now that they can snipe your engines exactly at up to 1000m, regardless of your speed or manoevering - no way could they be so damn accurate, playability is suffering here.

Normal troops accuracy at shorter range seems too high (or their response-time for accurate aiming perhaps too short) once they do see you? Human players tend not to aim so accurately this quickly, takes time to bring up the sights - so why should the bots be quicker on the draw?

On the textures and trees LODs or display ranges, this also affects textures worse than before on taxiways and other ground textures, come to land in helo to a helipad from distance, then get out, and often the texture beneath your helo is blurred, but walk away and the next-door tile is clear. Turn around and the tile under your helo remains blurred, but zoom in on that tile and it becomes clearer - but STILL not as clear as the next-door tile.

This DID happen pre-1.09, but the effect is now worse than before with this beta. The same effect can be seen with trees, after you fly in from a distance the LODs seem to stay crap until you zoom in, even with trees that are relatively close to you.

The combat AI improvements did not include the hoped-for idiots-in-corazol fixes or bridge-navigation fixes, nor did it include the "team movement" stuff:

If you have 30 troops then do these orders the problem is clear:

ALL: formation delta.

5,6,7,8,20,21,22,24 are team RED

Team RED move to (point 50 metres ahead of you)

Team RED: Formation DELTA! (ignored)

...team RED won't keep your delta formation, they will degrade to a wedge(with a hole!), AND your original formation Team WHITE do not close ranks to form up properly leaving a huge gap. The whole organisation of the squads is a shambles - it makes command of large squads and multiple teams virtually useless as they don't behave intelligently enough.

If you order

Team RED: return to formation,

..then wait for them to fill the hole already left for them (!!)..

then:

Team RED: ADVANCE!

_THEN_ Team red will sort-of stay in Delta formation (ish).....

So they COULD do it. Why don't they do it when ordered to move??

[twisted 127]

WarWolf @ Dec. 27 2007,18:36)]Recoil: I think some would call it a "feature", not a bug - but I agree that the recoil is now _very_ wrong on most weapons - MG recoil _downwards_ for instance - but even the normal rifles have very little recoil now - this is way too "easy" now IMO, nobody can fire those rifles with the arcadish amount of recoil in RL.  TBO I far preferred the recoils _as they were_ as to me they made sense.

This is true. now the m240 or pkm has way too little recoil when standing - it's almost laser gun full auto.

realism in recoils should be the only criteria. and one of the big things to get right.

i do prefer the recoils 'snappiness' now but....

[Heatseeker 0]

Bit of exageration?

The M240 and PKM should have some more recoil but they are far from laser guns if you're standing..

On the other hand the M16's and AK74 feel much better, i was tired of the a.i. unloading fast acurate shot vs the players struggling for an acurate shot every 4/6 seconds.

Im glad i can now assault with an assault rifle .

[andersson 285]

I just hope they revert to the 1.08 recoils and implement Q1184's recoilvalues. They are excellent! No need to reinvent the wheel (or whatever) when they have a good solution in front of them that users like.

[PuFu 4599]

agreed with andersson. those values seems more realistic that what is going on right now with the recoils. Also u might wanna check the m107...can any human shoot a 12kg 50cal sniper with that low recoil in RL??? confused here

[OKO 0]

As I tought this recoil change with 1.09 is so catastrophic that it needs a specific thread, I made one and it was locked, so I repost it here, to discuss that thing =>

I think the new so called "gameplay" changes are very strange for a simulation like Arma.

You are now able to put an entire magazine in 3 or 4 seconds in a 50cm plate at 200m with an aka.

It's really not realistic, neither even fun.

Why are ou trying to change a simulation to a "quake like" game ?

Even Crysis have now a more realistic feeling with weapons than arma.

Actual 1.09 feeling with weapon is just AWFULL.

You made fantastic job, modelising recoils that felt like real ones, recoils which need to train yourself to the different hand weapons, recoils for a simulation and not for "counter strike" games, in Arma original version.

And now, you completly changed with the 1.09 beta, giving us some absolutly unrealistic, not funny, and not understandable recoil changes.

Who the hell give you this awfull idea to kill the simulaion aspect like this ??

And how couldn't you see YOURSELF how it is just a ridiculous choice ?

Now, you also don't need to be crouched to use MG, tell me, did you already try to use a MG on kneel or standing on your feet ?

You must be joking ... and it's not a good joke.

So, specifically, the 1.09 recoils are something not only highly unrealistic, but not fun at all.

It's a big mistake to try to change a simulation to a more larger public game with this artifact.

You won't convince neither the simulation fan than the occasionnal gamer.

Why don't you let the modders doing changes like this ?

Why do you kill your work ??

I won't mention the other HIGHLY UNREALISTIC change about the BMP, that could survive to an AT-4 impact.

You made me laught with that ... An AT4 could blast a 10 time more armored vehicule IRL (35mm of armor at best against 400 mmm of penetration ....)

AT4 was made to fight MBT not APC ... An APC couldn't survive to an AT-4 impact, no-chance-at-all.

So, haven't finished to read your change's log, I just tested at this time this dramatic changes, but this is the first time, for the first days of OFP that you release a soooo disapointing change on a patch.

Fom this day, I was absolutely happy with all your patch, from OFP untill now, for 8 years ... and suddenly, I see BIS trying to make a bastard game, not really a simulation, not really a game, and this will NOT satisfy people who like simulations, neither people who just want a game.

I hope this absolute and complete error will be corrected in the official patch, at least this is just a beta.

[cross 1]

If possible we need,

1) VON speaker/mic volume adjustment option in Audio Options

2) Option to turn off ONLY regular kills not friendly kills. (we cannot identify team killers with KILL MSG OFF)

There seems to be some improvement to the lag/desync and teleporting issues which is really great.

VON;

Nice to have voice activation (transmitting when you talk only). The signs when you toggle VON should be replaced to a better position.

It still breaks up and stops functioning from time to time..really hard to identify when and why. Need some guidance on possible reasons to narrow them down ie can it be gettin in and out of a vehicle or switching to a certain channel at a certain situation. It is hard to find out when you do alot of things during playing.

[mr.g-c 6]

WarWolf @ Dec. 27 2007,18:36)]Recoil: I think some would call it a "feature", not a bug - but I agree that the recoil is now _very_ wrong on most weapons - MG recoil _downwards_ for instance - but even the normal rifles have very little recoil now - this is way too "easy" now IMO, nobody can fire those rifles with the arcadish amount of recoil in RL. TBO I far preferred the recoils _as they were_ as to me they made sense.

This is true. now the m240 or pkm has way too little recoil when standing - it's almost laser gun full auto.

realism in recoils should be the only criteria. and one of the big things to get right.

i do prefer the recoils 'snappiness' now but....

Have you guys ever shot a assault-rifle in real life?

If not, please be quiet instantly and stop complaining.

I believe the recoils are very good now and MUCH MORE REALISTIC than before.

Honestly i only shot a M16A2-type and a AK74M-type during holidays in USA some years ago, but i think i am able to tell you that the recoil of these weapons are in real-life like nothing, at least the M16 has no real recoil which could bring you out of the target with your ironsight.

So it is not "too easy" now - it simply was to unrealistic-hard recoils before 1.09.

Other Issue in 1.09 beta:

I can't enable Hardware-Accelerated sound anymore.

Also EAX seems to be enabled now by default - do i need it for good localization of direct-talks from somebody else? I ask this because it cost some Frames

[KeyCat 131]

Gnat @ Dec. 27 2007,02:13)]Consider....

- Changing TERRAIN DETAIL down to NORMAL as it generally only increases grass/weeds radius and shapes the terrain a *little* better. But from VH to Nor can be around 8 FPS up.

- Getting used to ANTIALIASING down on LOW or even DISABLED. Again another high FPS hit (5+) for generally limited value ingame / reduced playability. (I did it because I hate the look of the powerlines with it enabled)

Anyway, just try it, it may help.

Thanks for your concern Gnat but I'm pretty satisfied with my fps. I normally have around 40-50 fps (except up north) in both 1.08 and 1.09 Beta and I'm OK with that. To me very high terrain detail, very high shadows etc. is worth it. I would even prefer to have less dense grass but with a larger radius but thats just me

WarWolf @ Dec. 27 2007,10:36)]

I'd also confirm some earlier posts regarding the AI hearing - they are now virtually stone deaf -

That's not my experience with 1.09 Beta so far.

Today I've done some limited testing regarding AI's general hearing (skill set to 0.50) and they did detect me very well when firing in the air nearby, they did go prone and started to scan the area.

The AI also detected my precense if making "noise" by running close to him (with a stone wall between). It's possible to sneak up on them from behind if you crawl or walk slowly but if you make noise they will react to it so saying the AI are stone deaf is not correct IMO.

My inital impression is that the AI changed for the better but I haven't really done any extensive testings yet.

Probably the best way we could do to compare/discuss the new AI in the 1.09 Beta is to make some small scenarios and share them among us. If anyone is interested I will be happy to share the simple mission I used for above test, just let me know...

A question regarding the VoIP. Is it somehow possible to disable the "big" colored VoIP icons (mic and channel etc.) showed on the screen? Personally I bind the PTT to Caps Lock and have my Rx/Tx indication that way so a option to keep the screen uncluttered would be nice.

/KC

[PuFu 4599]

i did fired an ak74, and also a 7.62 modified hunting rifle. and they both had a punch.

I'm not talking about ballistics. I'm talking about recoils. the ironsight don't need to jump all over the screen to have it realistic, nor to have them zeroed. Q's recoils were better, XAM recoils are better, more realistic. There is some community work on this one, why don't implement it?

About the the mgs (m240, saw and pkm):way to out of hands. While crouched recoils i believe are better, the standing/prone are not right, way to accurate. those are heavy weapons.

Someone already mentioned this, so i'll just underline it: The ak47 now is less powerful than the m4s - this is wrong.

[OKO 0]

Have you guys ever shot a assault-rifle in real life?

yes I do, I was in the army and fired some hundreds of 5.56 (with Famas)

And also mounted 12.7 MG

You don't seems to have this experience on what you said

Quote[/b] ]

If not, please be quiet instantly and stop complaining.

I believe the recoils are very good now and MUCH MORE REALISTIC than before.

I'm afraid you really don't know what you are talking about !

With all respect to you.

So, cause YOU are not using real weapons, except once you said, you better don't say anything about realism, dude ...

Quote[/b] ]

So it is not "too easy" now - it simply was to unrealistic-hard recoils before 1.09.

that's just completly wrong. If you think you are able to fiire 30 rounds in a 50cm plate at 200m in less than 5 seconds, without any training, this just mean you just don't know what you are talking about !

Hand weapons need train to uderstand it, to find the best rate of fire (one by one bullets on distant target), to control the muzzle in automatic fire etc ...

This need train IRL ! and not a little, some hundreds bullets to become a real good shooter !

And with the 1.08 and before recoil settings, this was the case, and the lurning curve was very close to the real thing.

I made some trainings for my organisation (OFCRA => http://www.ofcra.org/ ) with specific assault rifle training, firing at 20 targets, distant from 50 to 300 meters, and I saw how training like these improved a LOT the skill of soldiers :

At first you need about 3 to 4 minutes to complete the training, but after 10 to 20 tries, my best is now 1mn32 seconds !

that's just what you need : no unrealistic recoils, but training !

If you want to test it (its an alpha version .. ) :

BLUEFOR training => http://okofree.free.fr/armastu....ara.rar

REDFOR training =>

http://okofree.free.fr/armastu....ara.rar

these training are made to be used with realistic balistics addon.

If you also think you could fire a MG standing on your feet at 400 meters targets, you must really experience it !

It's far from the real thing, just an arcadish feature.

1.08 recoil are very close to the real thing, don't let your lack of training with it makes you believe it's to hard !

So here is the point : original recoils where pretty much close to the real thing in term of efficiency : same rythm of fire, same results on targets for all weapons.

With original settings, you have to learn your weapon but if you do, you improve a lot, quickly, and you feel like you fire with a real one, and there is a real difference beetween trained people and not trained people.

with the training above, you will see a real difference beetwen aka74 and M4, about 15 to 20% easier for M4 (15% to 20% speeder to finish the training)

Something, finally, very close to the real thing, even the time you need to complete the training.

A simulation, in one word ...

Now, it's just a quake or counter strike, nothing to do with realistic efficiency, FAR more efficient and FAR less funny.

Arma is an infantery simulation, If you prefer some arcadish games, there is an excellent one just released for you, named Crysis.

And even Crysis have more realistic recoils than arma now ... a real shame ...

BIS ... how could you do ...that ??

You really desapointed me for the first time untill 8 years

This change is so awfull I still can't understand how you could have done that and put it in a public (even beta) patch ...

I really hope you will correct that thing in the official patch, or anyway, we (our organisation) will release a public addon with original recoil settings for arma if you stand with the 1.09 ones.

This change is a really step backwards.

[froggyluv 2130]

I agree 100% with you OKO. Me thinks the hordes of town criers complaining over recoil and inertia finally got to BIS who have taken the unfortunate step of pleasing the masses by de-evolving to mouse wars.

[mr.g-c 6]

Quote[/b] ]that's just completly wrong. If you think you are able to fiire 30 rounds in a 50cm plate at 200m in less than 5 seconds, without any training, this just mean you just don't know what you are talking about !

Quote[/b] ]You don't seems to have this experience on what you said

Quote[/b] ]I'm afraid you really don't know what you are talking about !

With all respect to you.

So, cause YOU are not using real weapons, except once you said, you better don't say anything about realism, dude ...

- Why you feel so personally attacked through my post?

- I never talked about what you CAN hit on what ranges

- U don't know how often i fired the rifles, you don't now nothing about me and my experience with these kind of weapons, so you really cant judge or say anything over my abilities.

- I just talked about RECOILS, and i still think that they are more real-life-like than before in 1.08. In real-life there is not this unrealistic movement of muzzle up-and down AFTER the shot like it was in 1.08. In 1.09 they made it better for my PERSONAL feeling of realism, period!

Quote[/b] ]If you also think you could fire a MG standing on your feet at 400 meters targets, you must really experience it !

It's far from the real thing, just an arcadish feature.

never said a single word about that....

Also i think that the soldiers you control in this game are well trained to hit over such distances(of course not from standing positions)....

[OKO 0]

mr.g-c, what I wanted to say, was just : whatever you do, you couldn't have the real feeling of a personnal weapon with ... a mouse.

So, what is important is that your PERFORMANCE on the field stay close to the real thing.

With the 1.08 and previous version of arma, recoils were tuned enought fine to reproduce real performance of weapons :

- you need train to improve

- when you are trained, you have same efficency as with a rel weapon.

With new settings, everyone is a rambo after 30 seonds of game, that's just stupid for a simulation, it's only an arcadish feature.

And I just cant' believe the previous EXCELLENT WORK at recoil (not perfect, perfection can't be obtained with a simulation) could be erased with this awfull simplification.

I have really nothing personnal against you, and the only point I'm interested to talk about is : final efficiency of shooters.

This recoil makes everyone a Rambo in some seconds, when to be an average shooter need time, IRL.

Furthermore, this is just not more fun at all, this just feel robotic killer, bad sensation, and exagerated efficiency.

Nothing to do with a simulation.