Tanks - Missile flight profiles and weapon improvements

[oukej 2910]

Here comes another platform feature for Tanks DLC to have fun with :) Our passionate programmers have added an option to switch the fire modes when using missile launchers, bombs, etc. And more importantly, added few different ways in which the missile can reach its target. 

In short - you can now switch the missile's flight from a simple direct trajectory to one that better utilizes the tank's weaker armour - e.g. the notorious Top attack. We'll try to add more info as the time flies and as the features get utilized more by the game's assets. As well as we'll update the documentation so you can try out what's under the black box.

Titan AT

 

PCML

 

Documentation: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Missile_flight_profiles

[roberthammer 582]

Very nice ,but can you add prone AT firing animation? while its already in the game but it is not used

 

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T83601

[pavel volonsky 44]

Now the PCML will miss the locked target when firing with elevation in direct firing mode. Is this related to the new features?

Sometimes I just can't lock with a portable Titan launcher.

 

Cheers.

[oukej 2910]

9 minutes ago, roberthammer said:

Very nice ,but can you add prone AT firing animation? while its already in the game but it is not used

3

Oukej has left this channel (reason: scared of animations)

[lappihuan 178]

sadly thats BI in a nutshell:
- programmers are scared to touch anim code
- animators are scared to touch anim network
- artists and gameplay designers are scared to request animations and anim features due to the above

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

2 minutes ago, lappihuan said:

sadly thats BI in a nutshell:
- programmers are scared to touch anim code
- animators are scared to touch anim network
- artists and gameplay designers are scared to request animations and anim features due to the above

 

To be fair the animation network looks like a thermonuclear detonation.

[dragon01 902]

I know animations are a chore, but the way AT is handled now when going prone tends to give people a lot of grief. It's not even a about firing, but being able to do anything with AT in prone position. Not to mention accidentally switching to launcher when prone...

 

[SuicideKing 233]

This is cool! Didn't expect it would happen haha.

 

Quote

Added: Overfly top attack fire mode for the PCML launcher (damage values are still WIP) 

Yeah the PCML's damage needs a serious buff, right now it's barely an anti-MRAP rocket, let alone anything better protected...

 

EDIT: Although looking at SAAB's page for the NLAW, that seems to be working as intended, to an extent?

[Greenfist 1863]

At a little longer distance it's not very top-down:

 

And yeah, shooting AT from prone was the first stance I was taught and the most common one used. So for me, the game has always lacked the distinctive AT guy feeling of crawling through the mud with that cumbersome launcher in hands.

[dragon01 902]

In fact, I found that top-down attack mode is, right now, not very effective. Maybe it's just that the armor is WIP, but it seems that Titan missiles have lost some of their firepower in general.

[Strike_NOR 898]

So far 2 of 3 top down attacks with the Titan AT on Varsuk caused the missile to overshoot and land ~5m beyond the target.

 

 

Still close enough to annoy the RCWS turret and get rekd by 50cal.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Useful note:

I was on Tanoa, slight incline, shooting downards on Varsuk, stationary. Probably no more height difference than 15-20 meters. Range about 700m.

[x3kj 1247]

1 hour ago, Greenfist said:

And yeah, shooting AT from prone was the first stance I was taught and the most common one used. So for me, the game has always lacked the distinctive AT guy feeling of crawling through the mud with that cumbersome launcher in hands.

I would be ok with just shooting from crouch (its not realistic, but ok) - the main problem i have currently is with forced shouldering when going prone with launcher is that you are so arkwardly slow to equip/unequip the launcher. When you crawl behind a small wall and want to go up in crouch and shoot... you first have to go up in crouch, sloooooowly shoulder your rifle and get the launcher, start aiming, shoot,  slooooowly shoulder launcher and unshoulder rifle, go prone. Its super arkward

 

New targeting mode looks neat, but it seems more like a gimmick - very shallow and accuracy seems not that great. I would have preferred improvements to manual guidance (the most engaging weapon mechanic in the game imo) to be actually beam riding. Manual guidance has servere accuracy problems against moving targets because the missile tries to steer towards the final aiming point, instead of trying to align itself with the "beam" of the guidance system. This makes it very hard to controll as the final aiming point can switch rapidly in distance (target moves, sometimes you "miss" aiming at the target while the missile is flying, so the aiming point will be several 100-1000 m's in the distance). And because the missile is never in line with your optic axis the corrections it will take might lead it such that it can't hit the target at all. In addition, the missile has no guidance fail - if the missile has passed the current aiming target it tries to fliy a looping to come back around.

 

Having the ability for firing modes on launchers is awesome for modding though... UT Triple Rocketlauncher here i come :D

[R3vo 2654]

Awesome to finally see top down attach mode. Here's some feedback:

 

- PCML seems to not properly exectute a top down attack, the missile often misses.

- After I used all my PCML Missiles and readded some via the Arsenal I wasn't able to lock on to a target anymore. Not sure if that's related to the update

- Could the PCML get a visualisation of the current attack mode inside the optic?

[lex__1 422]

Oh, I believed it would happen))) Thank you very much

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T82244

This is the second attempt to sharpen the focus on the need for a shot at TOP )))

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119452

Visualization inside Optics Stationary AT does not switch

[bars91 956]

Re: prone w. launcher - yes to that AND general removal of arbitrary restrictions.

I've always felt that stuff like this severely limits the realistic tactical options and more casual fun factor at the same time.

Same can be said for not being able to handle launchers from FFV positions. Now, not all of them should be available, but something like flatbed trucks and pickups.

[froggyluv 2136]

- nice on new fire mode

- +1 to for the above on both firing from ground and FFV

- please find way to unhandcuff AI AT soldiers from being so tentative to open up. Im not sure whats making them so hesitant so often but this kinda goes for the game in general. As it say in the Good Book ~ "Let Them Shooteth!"~

[eriktrak 76]

3 hours ago, R3vo said:

 

- Could the PCML get a visualisation of the current attack mode inside the optic?

 

Feature is bugged but its there. Sometime it works for me but its unreliable.

 

 

 

[KiTooN 63]

O_O So glad to see you guys finally making this as native mechanic !

Here's an issue I encountered, with a simple repro (the missiles are prone to overshoot in top flight) :

 

 

My guess : the projectile real-time velocity is not taken into account, the projectile "points" towards the target in hope it'll get there, so if the ammo class has bad side friction, it'll often miss.

I also might be completely wrong.

[Strike_NOR 898]

@KiTooN @oukej

 

This is exactly what I am reproducing also.

 

The missile should correct itself so that its velocity vector is going for the target, not just point the nose at it. Seems like forward/horizontal missile inertia is still very relevant at the terminal flight phase.

 

:)

 

Other than that, it seems the PCML is working great. Leading the target majestically, while the titan AT in top attack is lagging the target a little bit.

 

(You can see this by looking at how the PCML adjusts course immediately after launch and flies in a straight line towards predicted impact. The Titan AT seems to always curve during flight, as if always aiming directly at the target, instead of ahead of it. This would help explain why it is missing its target in @KiTooN's example too)

 

 

Edit:

It's easy to always focus on the negatives, but I have to say that besides from these small guidance issues, things are shaping up for Tanks DLC. It's always exciting to see what the next "feature" reveal will be :) . I must admit, I was not expecting improved flight trajectories for anti-armor weaponry, but I dare to dream, that the flight envelope is a necessary step towards better armor penetration mechanics :).

 

From the top of my head, the major advantages to top-down attack are:

 

• Obstacles between launcher and target are less relevant (less risk of hitting trees, losing line of sight, better against hull-down tanks etc).
• Missile becomes harder to defeat (if any active protection systems are present, the missile is changing paths, instead of flying straight).
• Armor is generally thinner on top of tanks, which is why the Shaped charge, or Explosively formed penetrators excel from top down angles.

 

From this list alone, I am hoping the last point is a nod towards HEAT or EFP simulation :D

 

The PCML technically doesn't use "top-down attack", but rather "overfly" mode. It flies up just before the target, not immediately after launch, and the shaped charge is facing 90 degrees downwards, so it should detonate exactly over the top of the tank, sending a molten-copper+high pressure focused blast into the turret.  It currently looks very good ingame, but it spawns an awkward indirect hit explosion on the tank it seems. I hope that's just a placeholder :p

[HaseDesTodes 62]

i found a similar issue to the overshooting one. i don't know if it's new, but:

when using PCML in straight mode, at 500m in VR (targeted from the side)

it hits the ground around ca. 130m before the target (Gorgon)

it hits the ground around ca. 200m before the target (Quad Bike)

 

overfly mode works fine.

 

there might be more targets that cause this issue, i will report back if i find more.

 

i tested all (hope i missed none) basic versions of the ground vehicles (transport covered for trucks, unarmed for cars) and i found the same issue with

Prowler, MB 4WD, Cart, Hatchback

 

I also noticed, some damage anomalies (eg. SUV didnt take any (noticable) damage in straight flight), but i guess damage will be worked on later.

[oukej 2910]

10 hours ago, Strike_NOR said:

It flies up just before the target, not immediately after launch, and the shaped charge is facing 90 degrees downwards, so it should detonate exactly over the top of the tank, sending a molten-copper+high pressure focused blast into the turret.  It currently looks very good ingame, but it spawns an awkward indirect hit explosion on the tank it seems. I hope that's just a placeholder :p

1

There's a submunition created. Check the PCML gif in the first post - you can see the red line trajectory of the submunition and green dots indicating each armour penetration

[Moerderhoschi 107]

@oukej are there also plans to make it possible to lock on and fight near helos like the capability of the FGM-148 Javelin?

 

i made something similar in 2014, worked well but never perfectly :-/

 

[Alwarren 2767]

23 hours ago, lappihuan said:

sadly thats BI in a nutshell:

 

This late in the game I can perfectly understand they don't want to reinvent the wheel, and the animation system is.. well.. good thing that Enfusion will have a better one.

 

On topic: Thanks for this feature, long time coming but great to see it in game now! It would really be great if the same could be done for air-to-ground missiles, including the LOAL mode (yeah I know I am spamming this request).

[Strike_NOR 898]

58 minutes ago, oukej said:

There's a submunition created. Check the PCML gif in the first post - you can see the red line trajectory of the submunition and green dots indicating each armour penetration

 

Hi Oukej!

 

Thanks for the clarification. I see what you mean in the gif, it seems like it spawns a Submunition of type projectile. This is good (simulates EFP/HEAT), which is a huge step forward! I am thrilled to see this finally in arma :) A must-have for tanks DLC!

 

For some reason, when trying this on my PC, there was an "explosion" effect in the vehicles center mass when this happened (vehicle survived), in addition to initial explosion. Will see if I can reproduce this.

 

I have two simple questions for you:

 

• Why is the submunition launched at a 45 degree angle downwards, as opposed to 90 degrees?
• Will you incorporate submunition into Titan AT missile, as this too is a typical HEAT warhead weapon?

I've been so lucky to detonate a couple of HEAT warheads in real life for demonstration purposes.

Set it up with a 7cm steel plate, some improvised "spaced armor" of steel square tubes filled with sand and a watermelon wearing a steel helmet behind it. Nothing survived. I kept the helmet(s) as a reminder.

[mickeymen 324]

On 05.02.2018 at 7:49 PM, oukej said:

Titan AT

 

 

 

I congratulate all on this wonderful addition, It's really is wonderful!

I just want to add the following, in vertical mode (top attack), judging by the oukej images the flight trajectory of Titan AT, looks too horizontally. We have a very low angle of attack

As far as I know, it would be more correct to make the top attack is much more vertical (in relation to the target)