Lost the ArmA 3 hype

[dav 22]

On 12/31/2016 at 2:29 PM, Rydygier said:

Natural thing, "old toy" syndrome. That's how brain works, I suppose, excitement ends, when no more neurons to reconfigure in the topic, all known, all trained, so the more I play games, the sooner it appear. For me it is exactly same, and applies to all the games, in my case the least for Arma 3, but still. AFAIK it will never be again, as it was at first, but longer break and new content may prolong and to the extend refresh enjoyment. But eventually there's someday inevitable "time to move on" moment. RL work gave me enforced a year and half break from Arma creative activities, so I hope, eventually I'll regain enough energy and motivation to update my work and to top my Arma 3 stage with the last project. We'll see. 

 

Also I know, how depressing it can be, even, if understandable, I experienced that too - bored with games, but nothing interesting appeared instead to fill mind in the free time, so what to do with myself after work? 

 

 

You could sped your time practicing writing English after work.

[road runner 4344]

1 minute ago, dav said:

 

 

You could sped your time practicing writing English after work.

 I suggest you refrain from giving out English Grammar lessons!!

[Rydygier 1309]

Quote

You could sped your time practicing writing English after work.

 

I do. Just now for example. :) About 90% of my current English skill I got exactly by writing and reading on this paticular BI Forums for several years. Wiriting my first post here was... a huge challenge with extensive use of Google translator. However my English is for sure still seriously flawed, progress is big comparing to my pre-Arma times. What can I say - thanks also for that, BI & Arma community. 

[lexx 1363]

3 hours ago, Mynock said:

I feel similarly. Making missions (or content for that matter relating to those who make mods instead) has zero return on investment for the amount of time required. For every "thanks for spending your time making this mission (or mod or whatever) for my enjoyment at no cost" there's another "you should have done this or that or I don't like it and my opinion is all that matters and I'm entitled to free stuff from other people because 2017..." Wears me out in a hurry. I used to respond to every comment on a mission, now I don't even click my Steam notifications box. I simply don't give a crap anymore. Various (and surprisingly many) bad apples in the Arma community burned me out. Now I just make missions to play for myself never to be released publically because what's the point, virtually no one will be satisfied. Aside from that, I can only make so many 'go here, kill this, capture this, find that' missions before I get bored and don't feel like continuing. From the creators eyes they all look the same, even though every mission is different to actually play.

Well, at least you apparently get feedback. I rarely get any at all, which is far worse a situation, imo. Without feedback, no matter if good or bad, it's impossible to improve yourself when working on future missions.

[teabagginpeople 398]

On 31/12/2016 at 4:54 PM, froggyluv said:

 

 

Remember that 'Sides' module they gave us (only to retract later)? That would be the right direction to make the SP experience riveting again. Imagine, a new campaign in which your squad walks among nervous townsfolk and you have to watch your actions or you may incite a riot. Dynamic changing of a Units's feelings toward a side is obviously doable in current state with scripting, but comes off as hacky and not very believable. Matter fact, AI behaviour modules are the way to go if you ask me - Sniper, Spec Ops, Civilian, MachineGunner etc with specific Modules would be awesome and add so much to the standard fare missions in which all units act the same save the slight config discrepencies which arent even inherent by class but by rank which is just weird.

Ha froggy wants to be manning a checkpoint.  Piss off some civi Ai. Have that Ai come back a day later and "accidentally" hit froggy with his car then stand over his body like Ali taunting a downed opponent. 

 

In this campaign you speak of Froggy. your actions not only cause riots. They incite hatred. Suicide bombs.  enough disgruntled Ai form rebel groups that attack patrols and supply networks. roadside ieds. Piss in your cornflakes. 

 

Lexx pm sent.

[froggyluv 2136]

 

 Well they finally pressed that dusty ol "Optimize Me" button and voila -64 bit exe.

 

 So now its time Oukej jack up that "Animate Me" Dial to 11 untill civs mow the grass and wolves paint Picasso

 

 Btw -thanks for ruining my gaming session with that not yet possible scenario that I want

 

PS:Ali taunt + shuffle animation should be top priority

 

[Mynock 244]

9 hours ago, Rydygier said:

 

It's an illusion, I think. It's likely, most of satisfied users simply doesn't give any feedback, because why, all is OK for them, no motivation to bother the creator. Perhaps it differs, but from my own experience, I didn't found that much "demanding attitude" in the response to things, I created. Lots of requests and ideas, also bug reports, sure, but that's just most valuable feedback, you can get, even if not the most pleasant, especially, if it induces mutual dialog. Ideas exchange, one idea induces another, each bug report is a potential improvement - great thing, making your projects something much bigger and more popular, than when you're ignoring any feedback just because. Also, between the lines, any feedback means, your work sparked interest, otherwise no one would write anything, because what for, who cares. Perhaps just for some default way to express interest is whining. 

 

As for increased MP focus... Well, I wonder, how SP-MP balance will look for next Arma, considering current trend. And I hope, there will be enough SP juice to play with, since MP for me practically doesn't exist (for several reasons), and all the effort, devs put lately into MP gives me nothing as for motivation. However, if this will attract more players to Arma, that means more money for further development. That's good, as long at least some benefit will go to the SP weirdos ghetto. 

 

Bug reports are one thing, when they are valid anyway. I couldn't begin to count the number of "hey broken dznt wrk bro" complaints I get and then when I inquire about it, the person is running 85 conflicting mods that aren't required or even recommended for the mission, and then when I tell them to disable them their response is often "well git gud at missions bro make it so i can play with errthang i want!!!" That's not a bug report. Also the instances where I get one that I can't reproduce, no one else can reproduce, and it's likely just a fluke with that specific person's Arma game, yet they badger you to "fix" something you can't fix...

 

Wording also goes a long way. Call me old school but "gr8 mission make more!" rubs me the wrong way vs something like "Great mission, if you find the time to release more like it in the future I'll be sure to play." Command to spend your time making something for someone for free vs acknowledgement it takes a lot of time and the person is appreciative of that.

 

7 hours ago, lexx said:

Well, at least you apparently get feedback. I rarely get any at all, which is far worse a situation, imo. Without feedback, no matter if good or bad, it's impossible to improve yourself when working on future missions.

 

If you use the term feedback loosely, then sure. Most of the time it's not really usable feedback, and the majority of negative feedback from people is because they either played the mission and expected it to be something totally different and were unable to wrap their head around the concept that everyone makes missions differently, or they were unable to complete it on the first try because they died or whatever and therefore the mission is "bad." While I applaud your desire to improve yourself for (correct me if I'm wrong) the benefit of other people, I don't feel the same way. I make missions I want to make whether it be to learn a new skill or because I want to play it personally, and if I feel like releasing them, I will, but I've yet to make a mission to please anyone else. So while feedback is cool and all, if someone wants something I'm uninterested in doing, it's not going to happen no matter how many times they tell me to. The same goes for changes in missions I've already released or people requesting a one-off scenario from me; you wouldn't buy a box of cereal from the store and then call up General Mills and tell them you don't like the orange colored fruit loops in the box so they need to make an entire line of orange-free fruit loops...

 

 

My attitude is probably different from most of you. If I play a mission or download a mod I don't end up caring for much, I simply uninstall it and move on with my life. Chances are the reason it didn't work for me is exactly the reason it does work for someone else, therefore who am I to go and tell them they did it wrong or request a change or whatever. It's not my style, so be it, I'm sure it's their style and lots of other people's and I respect the time and effort invested and I move on. Don't take my attitude as a communist one where "all content should be viewed as being equal", there are mods and missions and content that are far better than others and there is some stuff out there that is just plain bad (see missions Mynock has made for reference to 'bad'); but it's all free, I can't rip on someone just because they do it differently than I would, that makes no sense. They spent their time and effort making it and offering it to the Arma community at large, so even if it's the biggest abomination I've ever witnessed, I'm not going to sit there and rip them for it.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

One thing nobody seems to be mentioning is that we have recently just broke a record between the release of two ArmA games (excluding the OFP -> A1 period) and are bound to break the OFP -> A1 gap.

 

In two months time, we're going to enter 4th year of hands-on ArmA 3, previous record being 3 years, 8 months for A2 -> A3, and there is still another year of ArmA 3 to go at minimum by looking at the roadmap.

If Tanks DLC releases sometimes in Q1 2018, that's going to be 5 years of A3 easy. Assuming ArmA 3 support completely ends at that point, Arma 4 isn't going to be released some months after that. Barring some kind of a miracle, next Arma title might probably even break the OFP -> A1 record.

 

At this point in the last cycle, we were two months into messing with A3 alpha, and have spent at least year of seeing trailers, screenshots and flooding the Arma 3 suggestions forum.

 

So damn right it's starting to feel stale, average Arma nut has spent at least 1000 hours on Arma 3. We've spent more than 7 years on Chernarus (and we still seem to want more of it looking for the calls of DayZ Chernarus to be ported to A3), 3 of them trying to run away from Altis. We're about to start the 5th year of the most technologically advanced, communicative and supported ArmA game which also missed the mark on the era and assets community favors the most.

[lawndartleo 109]

I have to ask, what is going to be fresh about an ArmA IV?  Looking at the roadmap that BOS has layed out for us, I see nothing happening with ArmA IV any time soon and I have zero problem with that.

 

1) 64 bit is around the corner.  What will this bring?  I don't know but it has me intrigued.

2) Content. Tanks, jets, tac-ops are slated for future release.

[Beagle 684]

All the new content has no real valie without a battlefield to use it on. The only real long term combined game mode so far was Warfare CTI, a game mode that is still mostly played on ArmA II servers since A3 dropped it.

Just look at Tanoa...it's rarely used besides COOP, !shoot as much AI as you can".

 

[crom22morc 0]

Nothing left to do but sign up for the real deal and join the military.  

[Beagle 684]

13 hours ago, crom22morc said:

Nothing left to do but sign up for the real deal and join the military.  

I have my discharge paper for 22 years now. I in fact to old now to enlisten at all again.

[lawndartleo 109]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:42 PM, Beagle said:

All the new content has no real valie without a battlefield to use it on. The only real long term combined game mode so far was Warfare CTI, a game mode that is still mostly played on ArmA II servers since A3 dropped it.

Just look at Tanoa...it's rarely used besides COOP, !shoot as much AI as you can".

 

 

How are you playing? Canned missions that are the same gig every time?  Once you 've played it ad nauseam, there will be no surprises. There are a few really good dynamic missions of note but even they get stale after a while because the underlying code is reused from location to location.

 

Learn Zeus. Play with a small group that can handle a little downtime while somebody cooks something up. I highly recommend using the Ares-Achilles mod to make use of those extensions . Have more than one person working Zeus so that everyone gets a chance to play. With my friends, there are two of us who run the show and we swap control from time to time to keep it interesting for all.

 

Once you dial in Zeus, add ACE. It makes things dramatically more immersive once you get the hang of its intricacies and overcome its difficulties.

 

Heck, just learning how to get the most out of these two items might even catch your attention.  There is fun to be had in making things in ArmA, even if it is just implementing something that others made.  Making it all work can be a chore but in the end you have a mission that is never the same because you decide how its going to unfold.

 

 

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

On 1/1/2017 at 0:59 AM, froggyluv said:

 

 Yep, well versed in the feeling. Also a SP and with the current trend in focus on MP modes, missions and campaigns its easy to see why. For me personally, the AI is just too binary and that takes away any possible tensions needed for sandbox game feeling. Recently picked up a STalker game (CoP) on sale at steam and that gave me that much needed unknowing and suspense when encountering other AI. Was an awesome feeling to see a duo of ragtag dudes walking around running up to them and them giving me a verbal warning, then raising their rifles at me till i backed off -Arma could use so much of this. It makes Ai intriguing as found myself just following them for a while to see what they were up to while they occasionally pulled out scanners or fought off weird mutated dogs.

 

MP can simply never offer intrigue as we are all like minded players running around to kill shit -so who are the characters?? At some point ill always come back to some Arma play -usually putting a few new units down in the editor on some new map with some new content but damn, none of that can offer what it is a player like me is always after

 

AI doesnt sell copies, BI committing most resources to design which sells more copies.

 

= Stagnant AI that barely changed in many years

 

simple equation :)

[Wiki 1558]

Well, I know the AI can act in a silly way sometimes, but all in all, it's much better than many other games  :-)

 

But the point is not here:

some of you say it's always he same things in SP "go there, destroy - go there, kill- etc..."

 

Well, maybe you're right, but you can also change the way to do it.

I have plenty of ideas about how to make new things in SP, but really don't have motivation to do it.

 

I also agree with Mynock and lexx:

we rarely get comments / feedback / thanks for what we do - and many are "damn, this is crap, do it instead".

And it's a real motivation killer.

[lukio 18]

2 hours ago, wiki said:

Well, I know the AI can act in a silly way sometimes, but all in all, it's much better than many other games  :-)

 

But the point is not here:

some of you say it's always he same things in SP "go there, destroy - go there, kill- etc..."

 

Well, maybe you're right, but you can also change the way to do it.

I have plenty of ideas about how to make new things in SP, but really don't have motivation to do it.

 

 

I've tried  my hand at creating missions that have some kind of humanitarian aspect to them, to give them more depth, like protecting first aid convoy, rescuing wounded civilians or doing SAR, but in the end I gave up because the AI always got in the way. Possibly it can be done with massive scripting skills and mods. Even making a "simple" escape & evade mission needs quite advanced scripting imo. Furthermore the documentation can be very minimal at times and many tutorials, guides etc. are outdated so it sometimes adds an extra layer to overcome. Edit: I'd really really like to get my hands on some of those encrytpted missions to see "how they did it".

 

Additionally I like to say that I do miss things like the A2 surrender module & first aid module which added a bit more mechanics around a mission than just - go in / set up defenses, kill / blow up everything - RTB. The whole FAK heal mechanic was quite disappointing. The AI also lacks some basic ROE settings imo, like do not fire until fired upon and tactical retreat. In general though (for combat) I'd say it is quite solid and seen quite some improvements.

 

 

 

[Mynock 244]

5 hours ago, wiki said:

I also agree with Mynock and lexx:

we rarely get comments / feedback / thanks for what we do - and many are "damn, this is crap, do it instead".

And it's a real motivation killer.

 

Yup, and 99% of the people who talk shit about how "bad" your mission is can't even make a basic mission...

[joostsidy 685]

Creating missions is creative work and this type of work is difficult to stay motivated for all the time.

 

My couple of cents:

- First do it for your own enjoyment, if others enjoy it, it's a bonus. I'm a little extreme in this as I haven't shared any of my 20 or so missions yet. I might upload one of them these days to see what it does.

 

- Take brakes from the game, or work on two missions at the same time, so you can swap when you are fed up with one. Play a whole other genre of games, like an isometric strategy game for a while.

 

- Set goals for yourself. Many times I'm fed up with the concept of the mission, but 'the fun' is then to complete the components in editing: configuring the convoy, managing the defence. Dividing mission building

into subtasks increases the chance of finishing the creation of a mission. Usually when I finish a mission I'm quite fed up with it because of all the testing, but I know that I'm going to like to play it in a couple of weeks.

 

- This one is really important: don't be over-ambitious. I sometimes can't believe what I'm reading in the modding section of this forum about people working for years and years on projects. Many times giving up after a long time.

This is very unhealthy and bad practice as project management goes. I tend to want to create very dynamic missions for replayability reasons, but nowadays, my missions are more linear (only a little dynamic). There is always random stuff going on in Arma anyway and if I haven't played a mission for a while I tend to have forgotten the linear parts so it feels fresh.

 

- Try to work within Arma's limits. I can't tell you the times I spent hours tweaking a particular helicopter landing, because it would be 'realistic'. Now I tend to let Arma do its quirky things and go with it. As long as the main goals and feel of the mission is correct, it's fine.

[ProfTournesol 956]

6 hours ago, joostsidy said:

 

- First do it for your own enjoyment, if others enjoy it, it's a bonus.

 

Exactly. That's the very secret of modding.

[Wiki 1558]

Well, that is diffcult as I mostly do for others.

As a matter of fact, when I make a mission, I don't enjoy playing it that much as I exactly know what to do, what will happen, where the enemies are, etc...

My first motivation is telling a story.

As said, I got plenty of ideas of scenarios, it's just making them that I find difficult ATM....

[miasdad 94]

On 12/31/2016 at 8:10 AM, wiki said:

 

Yeah.

 

Plus, I'm more a SP guy - and I've completed the whole game (campaign, missions, achievements...) and the usermade content that was worth it IMHO.

Been a while wince there is something really good to play.

 

I'm eager to see what BIS will release next year...

Just as eager-if not more so- for Wildlands. GR used to be tops on my list.If it had the features Arma has,I'd pick up no other.My 2¢

[dmarkwick 261]

17 hours ago, wiki said:

Well, that is diffcult as I mostly do for others.

As a matter of fact, when I make a mission, I don't enjoy playing it that much as I exactly know what to do, what will happen, where the enemies are, etc...

My first motivation is telling a story.

As said, I got plenty of ideas of scenarios, it's just making them that I find difficult ATM....

I make my own "special" missions ;) and I go the other way. I try to make a mission as randomised as possible while still producing very interesting results. So all groups' members have a randomised chance of not existing, you'd be surprised how much this single simple changes things. Sometimes you spawn with no AT capability. Sometimes with no machinegunner. It forces you to approach the same situation in different ways. Also, you're never quite sure about the capabilities or numbers of enemy groups.

 

Then of course you can add DAC or some similar random patrol generator to mix things up, so that your mission is each time different because of random enemy density.

 

I'd be embarrassed to admit how much time I spend doing one single mission over & over & over again, getting enjoyment out of how it plays differently each time.

[Foxone 1044]

Maybe try out MilSim it is something broadly played, maybe you will enjoy it (you could even make missions for that MilSim unit)

[semiconductor 309]

On 12/31/2016 at 4:27 PM, wiki said:

I'm depressed.

I like ArmA 3, I like editing, but it's been some time now that I'm not interested into it that much anymore.

Lucky you, I've never really got into Arma 3 in the first place thanks for the retarded setting and Mediterranean-centered graphics. I've waited for mods to come and fix it but somehow they never did and no matter what I tried I just can't get that Arma 2 feeling back and mind you, I've started playing Arma 2 a month after Arma 3 Alpha came out so that's not some "grass was greener" syndrome.

 

For me, Arma 3 just doesn't feel right: the lighting is unrealistic, the weapons look and feel like made of plastic, the terrains are boring and uninspiring etc. I just don't feel that connection I felt towards Arma 2's setting and graphics.

Sigh. Maybe Arma 4 will be better.

[jw custom 56]

I've also lost my passion for ArmA, had a good run and feel i got more than enough for my money :)

 

To be fair i only game a little on PS4 these days so i abandoned most gaming on PC.