Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback

[metralla 19]

this would at least for me and maybe others give some feel of actually seeing what should be done and does not get you in the air in 10 seconds which kinda sucks.

(like you have your escape and you lift off in no time ? as if everything is warm and ready in a static/parked helicopter, just takes the edge away if you are chased by some guys trying to kill you)

would be nice like mentioned before to have the collective and foot pedal animations as well.

.

accurate, you must enter at least the animation of the pedals and throttle.

[DancZer 65]

Dslyecxi nailed the key points! They just need to move out of the uncanny valley(reduce explosions and fix those strange simulation behaviors). If the heli behave like in real world then isn't frustrating and annoying.

[james2464 176]

Dslyecxi makes some great points, I hope to see these taken on board to.

[royaltyinexile 175]

would be nice like mentioned before to have the collective and foot pedal animations as well.

Yes, this work's planned, and is currently in progress. :cool:

Added: Collective and Pedals animations for some helicopters

For now, you should find some improvements on the AH-9, MH-9, and Mohawk.

Best,

RiE

Edited August 6, 2014 by RoyaltyinExile

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I love the fact that gear is now manually controlled in all helicopters across all flight models. Would it be possible to enable taxiing/parking brake for the non-advanced flight model?

[twisted 128]

Some thoughts on the current dev flight model, including comparisons with TKOH and DCS, complete with a list of suggested improvements to help pull everything together.

nicely put. i learned quite a bit here.

[samb 15]

I am impressed with Dslyecxi's video comparison. He did great job, I hope BiS takes his points into consideration. Still- even with current FM state I am having great time flying around A3, so thank You for giving us RotorLib guys!

[hellfire257 3]

The biggest thing is that the helos feel weightless. I fully understand what he means when comparing the DCS flight models. I understand that expecting a similar level is unrealistic, but there needs to be some feeling there.

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

Weight of crew is 100kg each (generic). Weight of ammo is defined in weapon config (magazines).

That's weird, because the choppers mass (as like all vehicles) doesn't change when units are boarding/leaving the vehicle.

Using ammunition doesn't affect the weight at all. At least nothing I could notice when using the vehicle (getmass command doesn't show any mass changes either).

Made a script that adds/subtracts mass with the setmass getmass command (taking a rough estimate for each soldiers weapons and magazines/items), that way it had a real big influence on flight behavior, you could tell if the chopper was loaded or not.

Especially when using a hacky solution to lift other vehicles and add their mass to the chopper, boy what a challenge.

Too bad vanilla doesn't do this.

[Brisse 78]

The flight model is not necessarily using the same mass as the one you get from the getmass command.

[metralla 19]

By god as they occur TKOH compare with DCS :cool:. Understandably, users of flight simulators would like to see something similar, but this is not realistic FM TKOH with advanced flight mode AFM DCS.

Is clear that the new system for helicopter flight will be better than the old arcade flight mode ARMA saga, but only that and nothing more.

[armored_sheep 56]

That's weird, because the choppers mass (as like all vehicles) doesn't change when units are boarding/leaving the vehicle.

Using ammunition doesn't affect the weight at all.

Dunno about script use, but if you play game it is easy to notice the weight changes.

Example 1) try empty Hummingbird and than load it with crew. 2) try Pawnee, go in steady hover and start firing rockets. You will notice that helicopter starts to climb as the weight drops.

[worldsprayer 0]

By god as they occur TKOH compare with DCS :cool:. Understandably, users of flight simulators would like to see something similar, but this is not realistic FM TKOH with advanced flight mode AFM DCS.

Is clear that the new system for helicopter flight will be better than the old arcade flight mode ARMA saga, but only that and nothing more.

Not that i wish to be rude, but your first sentence lacks any understanding that I can make out. Your second is understandable enough.

The problem with simply accepting that it's "better' than the old system is that it must in the end BE "better".

At the moment it is not. The current attributes of the aircraft (weightlessness, lack of obedience to laws of physics) served the aircraft well in the relatively confined, physics limited arma engine, but now that the INTENT is to create a legitimate flying experience, it has become woeful. If the company wishes to release a download that doesn't make them a laughing stock of the coding community, they actually need to release a quality product.

This is why we're giving our feedback instead of simply saying "oh well it will never be as good as DCS". Perhaps, but we won't know unless we push them to at least try.

Testing from today:

Attempted roll on landings in every aircraft at 100 kph. Each, with straight landing at 100kph (roughly 60 knots...a very efficient and gentle speed for touchdown) and RoD roughly 1fps...exploded. I started to feel what dyslexi was saying...exploded...exploded...exploded...after the fifth aircraft to prove unable to do a basic real world maneuver.

Other than that, I continue with my earlier statement that the aircraft lack mass, which is what is allowing the wind to act in an unrealistic manner at speed (high speed yawing for example), and standard turns that send the aircraft into tumbles. Everything simply goes so FAST in these aircraft, almost despite how slow you put inputs.

[4 IN 1 0]

I am one of the people who are genuinely disappointed how TOH when, There wasn't much we asked for, a better default FM, and someone fucking tell people how to use the bloody winch script, none have happened, and the answer we got for not beefing up the FM is that AI don't know how to fly the FM....

Really, who bloody care about AI don't know how to fly with THAT FM? No body even care about cheating the AI to fly their own FM while player use a "normal" advance one.

[Azzur33 1]

I hope they'll fix the damage system soon, because I'm sick on hearing that KABOOM sound and instant death which occurs when I hit a butterfly or a falling leaf.

[samb 15]

I am just waiting for guys like Fred Naar to give us his imput here.

[csthor 10]

I've finally managed to watch Dslyecxi's video (was at work before) and I have to agree with pretty much all his points. To me, at this moment, the ludicrous explosion habit of the new FM pretty much negates any real or imagined advantage the RotorLib FM may have because it's simply making helicopters unusable. Why? Because the twitchiness of the controls leads to overcorrection and that induces further control problems. And those lead, as you may have guessed, all too often to the Ka - ****ing - Boom. This leads me to my second peeve.

The control setup, especially in conjunction with advanced peripherals such as rudder pedals or HOTAS systems, is simply not up to specs. Sorry, there's no way to sugarcoat it. Not being able to adjust curves on your HOTAS or rudder with accurate visual representation is not worthy of a game from 2013. Not being able to assign rudder to an axis (in the manner of other flightsim titles, that is) is not helpful, either. Right now I'd love to put my Saitek rudder pedals on an S-curve because I feel the need to turn down control inputs on this axis but even after much trial&error with the cryptic and user-unfriendly setup menu I still haven't managed to find a setting which satisfies me. The same "chore" in titles such as Rise of Flight or DCS takes about a minute and is much much easier (due to the visual feedback the curve editors in said titles provide).

I know this isn't a full-blown flightsim but if you include the potential to use HOTAS and rudder systems then at least provide them with a decent setup system. Please.

Edited August 6, 2014 by csThor

[ChillaSteve 10]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there are no choppers on a dedicated server? They load fine in the mp editor but soon as I move the mission over to the dedicated server no choppers appear. also, if using zeus in mp on a dedicated, spawning any chopper, with or without crew crashes the client that spawns them..

[dr. hladik 231]

That's weird, because the choppers mass (as like all vehicles) doesn't change when units are boarding/leaving the vehicle.

Using ammunition doesn't affect the weight at all. At least nothing I could notice when using the vehicle (getmass command doesn't show any mass changes either).

Made a script that adds/subtracts mass with the setmass getmass command (taking a rough estimate for each soldiers weapons and magazines/items), that way it had a real big influence on flight behavior, you could tell if the chopper was loaded or not.

Especially when using a hacky solution to lift other vehicles and add their mass to the chopper, boy what a challenge.

Too bad vanilla doesn't do this.

weightRTD - returns [fuselage weight, crew weight, fuel weight, custom weight, weapons weight]

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there are no choppers on a dedicated server? They load fine in the mp editor but soon as I move the mission over to the dedicated server no choppers appear. also, if using zeus in mp on a dedicated, spawning any chopper, with or without crew crashes the client that spawns them..

Fixed in 126613

[nodunit 397]

Attempted roll on landings in every aircraft at 100 kph. Each, with straight landing at 100kph (roughly 60 knots...a very efficient and gentle speed for touchdown) and RoD roughly 1fps...exploded. I started to feel what dyslexi was saying...exploded...exploded...exploded...after the fifth aircraft to prove unable to do a basic real world maneuver.

Odd...I don't know if this is addon related or what but I more or less had a small hard landing in my helicopter above 100kph and didn't explode.

I'll experiment with it more and see if it was just a fluke or what as it may be related to the massive quantity of HP the helicopter has, relying more on system failures than pure hit points.

Edited August 6, 2014 by NodUnit

[maddogx 13]

I hope they'll fix the damage system soon, because I'm sick on hearing that KABOOM sound and instant death which occurs when I hit a butterfly or a falling leaf.

This. Dslyecxi's video also summed it up pretty well.

Helicopters need to stop exploding at the drop of a hat.

[Gudsawn 93]

Not directly related to the flight model, but I thought it was important enough to mention here.

Quoted from a user on our forums (regarding helicopter damage models):

I really like how at 17:00 he (Dslyecxi) says about the way helicopters respond to damage in ArmA. They just blow up. That has always bugged me.

One of my larger problems with it too, Arma is a game that could really benefit from having a system that works correctly with this sort of damage model as it could lead to so many cool scenarios that you simply cannot experience in a game like DCS.

[hoizen 18]

Out of all the areas that are needing improvement or are simply lacking, I would like to vote that the damage model is the most important (at least to me). I can do without a lot of other improvements (although I'd still like to see them) but the constant explosions at everything got old in the last game and it's no better here. Dslyecxi's tone when talking about the damage model in the video really captures my own feelings on it.

[metralla 19]

This. Dslyecxi's video also summed it up pretty well.

Helicopters need to stop exploding at the drop of a hat.

And the car? also have to stop exploiting? because the same rule should also affect explosions arma3 all vehicles. I think the damage system for vehicles is 50% done wrong. :nono::icon_twisted:

[doveman 7]

Could do with some information on how we're supposed to use the Set Trim (Rctrl+Num5), as it doesn't seem to do anything when I try it. I'm used to using Trim in DCS, where it holds the cyclic in position (and in the KA-50, updates the Autopilot/stabilisation channels but I don't expect that sort of thing in ArmA) and whilst there is a Trim Reset in DCS, everyone advises that it's not something that exists IRL and should be avoided, so I wonder if the same applies to the Trim Reset in ArmA3? DCS also has an option for the Huey to disable trimming the rudder/pedals, mainly because without force feedback pedals (which don't exist) it leads to the rudder getting stuck in a trimmed position without the pilot being able to tell where it is, so it might be an idea to either have this option, or fix it off, unless there's situations where some players will want/need the rudder to trim along with the cyclic.

I'm afraid I'm not impressed at all with the flight model at the moment. I know I'm a pretty rubbish pilot but I can control the DCS Huey with my FFB2 stick and Saitek pedals easier than I can the A3 rotorlib helos, which seem to be a nightmare to control right now. I really think that it would have been better to take some advice on how helos actually handle IRL, which no doubt would have been freely offered (as it has been in this thread) and is already in various ToH threads on this board (some of which are linked to under this thread) before releasing anything to the general public, as it doesn't really instil confidence hearing that it's available for testing and feedback, only to find it's so deficient at the moment.

Fingers crossed it will be vastly improved anyway, as I'd very much like to have more realistic helos in ArmA3 but it will have to get a hell of a lot better before I choose to use it over the existing simple and unrealistic flight model.