AI Discussion (dev branch)

[inlesco 233]

I'm sorry to say it's better not to expect expect scenes like this one to work safely with AI in A3. I'd say when creating a mission it's better to avoid having infantry and armor move at the same time close next to each other and avoid possible accidents.

A customizable formation with armor in the middle and soldiers behind / from both sides walking in combat / at-ease mode would be great as a replacement.

 

I think nobody expects dynamic pathfinding to be this meticulous. Sure, it'd be costly on CPU cycles, I assume ;)

[Vasily.B 529]

A customizable formation with armor in the middle and soldiers behind / from both sides walking in combat / at-ease mode would be great as a replacement.

 

I think nobody expects dynamic pathfinding to be this meticulous. Sure, it'd be costly on CPU cycles, I assume ;)

That would help groups with vehicles, when infantry and vehicle would not be in same group problem would stil be present. I have tried to create zone around vehicles (20 meters) and limit soldiers move in this zone, but in this case that make problems with get in points . There is no perfect cure for this :( Ai are suffering for non-stoping vehicles as i observed last time - i'm giving them waypoint (for vehicle) when i'm on foot, and they are driving on waypoint and without throttle driving further, and killing more soldiers.

[kremator 1065]

Having that kind of formation would end up in the infantry being run over!  Doesn't matter where you place them, but anywhere close ends in them being squashed.

[Variable 322]

Reading this discussion might lead someone to think that vehicle only convoys are all fine and dandy. It's not.

[Vasily.B 529]

Thats why i'm asking to fix them since so long. Beacuse they need lot of care. For wheeled vehicles there is Vcom_ai_driving mod which is cool, but for tanks theres is nothing, blank point. Mod was released back in early 2014 when all was thinking "ech, its only temponrary solution...." but thing is. we have 2016 and AI patchfinding in vehicles is not touched. Look at this :
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27000



Oukey, please, give some info about it to Ai developers....

[froggyluv 2136]

 As long as vehicle arent going at breakneck speeds I say just let them "bump" the infantry out of the way. Hell we have AI that ghost thru objects at times as the alternative is far worse.

 

 On a plus note, loaded up a squad of 10 onto 5 ATV's and had to roughride halfway cross Altis last nite (like 10 minute rl) -was shocked how well they were hanging with me despite areas of low walls and boulders and fog.  Felt like Cobra Kai guys from Karate Kid.

[Vasily.B 529]

Vehicles isnt that bad, they just need few touches to be finished. Only PhysX and reversing actually, and game will be finally playable for me. Infantry - they work good, but not perfect, only this ghost moves may be nervous, and pathfinding to get on/in vehicles sometimes. And stopping in some point and repeating "No cant do" to all orders. Im still waiting for magically 2 touches to vehicles.

[x3kj 1247]

As long as vehicle arent going at breakneck speeds I say just let them "bump" the infantry out of the way. Hell we have AI that ghost thru objects at times as the alternative is far worse.

 

 On a plus note, loaded up a squad of 10 onto 5 ATV's and had to roughride halfway cross Altis last nite (like 10 minute rl) -was shocked how well they were hanging with me despite areas of low walls and boulders and fog.  Felt like Cobra Kai guys from Karate Kid.

small turning circle, little inertia -> mistakes don't matter much

commanding a driver as commander is horribly messed up

[froggyluv 2136]

small turning circle, little inertia -> mistakes don't matter much

commanding a driver as commander is horribly messed up

 

 Top speed offroad in which a twig can blow out a tire, halfway across the state of Altis -hell im lucky I made it.

[nkenny 1057]

The latest few betas has brought an interesting development.

 

As a mission editor, I spend quite a bit of time experimenting with the AI. And as each patch seems to bring adjustments, I have a set of very simple-- rather unscientific-- vanilla scenarios that I run. Two squads, one CSAT the other NATO, facing one another in a heavily wooded area and across an open field. 

 

I run the test multiple times. Sometimes taking part as a lowly rifleman, sometimes not. Sometimes with their starting positions reversed. For me it is a feeling-barometer, proving ground, for vanilla AI moreso than anything else.  Now the last time I ran this test extensively was a while back. Before the christmas armour update certainly. However with the latest dev version I have seen an interesting change: 

 

The previous behaviour was that the NATO squad would win the woodland test and the CSAT squad would dominate the open fields-- something I attributed to CSATs frankly superior weaponry. The winning squad would generally end with three to four squad members surviving. In the latest dev. branch release this behaviour is reversed. 

 

Now NATO owns the fields and CSAT dominates close in fighting. Additionally, the winning squad tends to be more survivable, loosing only one to three members-- sometimes none! Finally rates of fire seems to have increased (particularly the NATO squad) and the posture seems generally more aggressive. 

 

There are obviously many variables: weapons, armour, terrain, how cover is sought--formations maintained, suppression or Stamina mechanics, my own malleable recollections, etc.  I am not interested in pointing any fingers. Just wondering if anyone has experienced something similar over christmas. 

 

-k 

[Vasily.B 529]

I see very big change in Ai behavior - infantry act more like infantry now, they simply can fight now as they should in milsim. Cant complain on infantry almost at all. As for me its time for vehicles now as they are far, far away from realism.

[Greenfist 1863]

AI changelog today:

Player is no longer able to make some of the fellow AI take a detour with him/her just because he/she is higher in the formation. If you - as a dirty subordinate - leave your comrades and go lone-wolf the AI will still stick to the leader and will just keep a nice warm spot for you in their formation.

:huh: I always thought this was a feature. Seemed logical that the AI didn't let their human wander off alone.

 

Groups should generally move faster in combat.

:) Splendiggity!

[mad_cheese 593]

It's so good to finally see these things happen. All these danger- and formation-tweaks look really promising.

[Maxzy 12]

AI changelog today:

:huh: I always thought this was a feature. Seemed logical that the AI didn't let their human wander off alone.

 

You thought that AI ignoring commands and not following squad commander is a feature and considered it logical?

[froggyluv 2136]

Most likely because this is just reverting to what always was - that being squad members acting like a flock of birds. At some point there seemed to be the addition of some sort of squad breakoff in that if player broke away a few underlings would join him - seemed like sort of a cool feature. So now we are told this was a bug all along? And this alone was the cause of slow responding danger.fsm? 

 

 So THIS was the alleged nasty danger bug we were told about some months ago?  Hmmmm... 

[twisted 128]

Most likely because this is just reverting to what always was - that being squad members acting like a flock of birds. At some point there seemed to be the addition of some sort of squad breakoff in that if player broke away a few underlings would join him - seemed like sort of a cool feature. So now we are told this was a bug all along? And this alone was the cause of slow responding danger.fsm? 

 

 So THIS was the alleged nasty danger bug we were told about some months ago?  Hmmmm... 

 

actually the flock of birds analogy reminds me of something - in arma the ai seem to move at the same time, especially turning. makes them seem very robotic and well AI-like. have more variation or a delay would  be a nice touch...

[old_painless 182]

From the ticket it showed when two human players had AI teammates. They would follow the wrong human, not the team lead

[cosmic10r 2331]

We had this on the dedi were we all in same team and units would follow me and some would follow squad leader... I actually kinda liked it lol

[mad_cheese 593]

So now we are told this was a bug all along? And this alone was the cause of slow responding danger.fsm? 

 So THIS was the alleged nasty danger bug we were told about some months ago?  Hmmmm...

 I can't imagine that - this was a long known issue and could turn out to be a real pickle... It has in all honesty not happened to me in a while but you can imagine the effect on your formation after unit2 gets his leg taken out :D Don't take my word for it but as far as I know this was not connected to playable-units or combat modes. Here's a video from even Arma2 where you can see the issue well. So maybe we are getting goodies AND danger-tweaks, this seems like just a great lil AI-tweak. And so does this one:

0021222: [AI Pathfinding / Motion] AI team mates fall behind in running because of raised weapons (oukej) - resolved.

 

As far as danger mode goes, this one looks promising, haven't been able to test.  

Tweaked: Lost AI returns to formation faster when in combat

Would be too nice if this fixed the units just stopping in the open, but the phrasing makes me not want to get too excited just yet.

 

I do remember some statements being made about expanding access to danger-behavior. An option to turn off auto-danger entirely does not seem obsolete to me at all at least from a scripted point of view. We can force them to be 'Careless' by script, we can force them to stay in 'Combat'. 'Safe' makes no sense to force since we have 'Careless' available. So all we really can not do is force 'Aware', which I think is really the sweet spot of combat modes. But hey, that's just my opinion. It is really nice to see that things are moving!

[msy 22]

I always think X-2-1 "cancel target" can really work! Or I don't know how this order works.

Plus, I always think there should be a "retreat" order that can make AI run back faster.

[Maxzy 12]

These recent AI changes really transformed the game. Although Infantry showcase plays basically as usual, Combined Ops is completely different now. Previously it took several minutes for my squad to engage in combat with all those stops and constant laying down because "enemy soldier - east!". Now its a fast run right from disembark point to a nearest car wreck and sudden death because not only friendly AIs are seem much more energetic, but also enemy soldiers are quickly taking positions which I used to make my strongholds =).

Also during one of playthroughs right from the start my squad leader decided that we don't have to take part in this combat and just went away. I was wondering where he's going and ran and ran and ran after him, but 10 minutes later somewhere around Air Station Mike i got bored and had to kill him =).

[mad_cheese 593]

Previously it took several minutes for my squad to engage in combat with all those stops and constant laying down because "enemy soldier - east!". Now its a fast run right from disembark point to a nearest car wreck and sudden death

that sounds pretty great except the sudden death part! :D

...my squad leader decided that we don't have to take part in this combat and just went away. I was wondering where he's going and ran and ran and ran after him, but 10 minutes later somewhere around Air Station Mike i got bored and had to kill him =).

That's really weird, but since Mike-26 is south of that mission's objective, I would suspect your guy somehow received the command to move to a nonexistent position, therefore heading straight to position [0,0,0] - the bottom left corner of the map. It's so annoying when that happens, but not related to behavior I think. Or is it?

[Vasily.B 529]

Im very happy about this tweak. Almost every day, every gameplay was finishing half of my team mates was dead beacuse they were following me instead of team leader. They started tweak AI..... I hope they will fix.... you know what :) As for me, when they fix AI and PhysX, and update all plugins, correct configs for updated plugins, they can start making DLC with no hurry, beacuse game will be playable and almost bug free. What? We will have working infantry, working vehicles, only small bugs like bugged textures or geometries, which will not give them such big pressure to fix it, and ACE 3 team will do the rest, best they can. Originall game never had so many function like ACE is giving. Only lack since OFP is prone animation for launchers..... Cant deal with that most the time. If launchers coult get so many animations as the rifles (height level of crouch - CTR + W or S, prone) this would be fantastic great.

[DancZer 65]

Is there any difference in combat mode changes for:

SAFE->COMBAT and AWARE->COMBAT? The AI should fear more in case one than in the second one.

In the first case the AI last thing should be to engage enemy and find cover first. Is there something in the current state of the game?

[Vasily.B 529]

Is there any difference in combat mode changes for:

SAFE->COMBAT and AWARE->COMBAT? The AI should fear more in case one than in the second one.

In the first case the AI last thing should be to engage enemy and find cover first. Is there something in the current state of the game?

Yes, in combat mode, AI is moving from cover to cover, and seek for enemy, in aware mode, they just follow you and observing horizon but not so deep as in combat. Other behavior details you can watch on Tutorial in virtual reality in main menu.