AI Discussion (dev branch)

[klamacz 447]

This thread gets attention, I'm checking it regularly. It is a lot easier and faster to respond to anything if you provide repro mission, or at least repro steps (how to reproduce it in simple but precise language, like you would be explaining it to my grandmother ;) )

 

First its already reported SOMEWHERE on feedback, but feedback is not working now, so i cant check this. Second - i'm sure about their ammunition. I checked inventory of low ammo unit via map, team, inventory of desired unit, and he has 2 mags for the rifle, so he was keep talking low ammo. Ordered him to get ammo from truck - nothing, from ammo crates - nothing, even lefted him mags on the ground , gived order tot ake it - nothing. Its not working.

 

In fact, it seems not working. We will get it fixed, thanks for info.

[Vasily.B 529]

This thread gets attention, I'm checking it regularly. It is a lot easier and faster to respond to anything if you provide repro mission, or at least repro steps (how to reproduce it in simple but precise language, like you would be explaining it to my grandmother ;) )

 

 

In fact, it seems not working. We will get it fixed, thanks for info.

OK, since there is no feedback tracker now, let me explain step by step how to repro this.

First spawn 2 man squad, yourself as commander, and ammo truck, ammo crate near you. Preview the mission. Now open map, get to "Squad" tab and open inventory of your buddy, delete his rifle magazines, so there will left only 2 or 1 mag (he will cry for ammo) - rest (ammo you deleted) should be on the ground. Now move him a little further (at least 50M from thise mags on the ground). NOW order him to rearm at truck, ammo crates or take ammo from the ground, watch what happen.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

How can you say that when a dev just replied to you 30 minutes ago in here? :D

Ha! I missed that. Wow. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

OK, since there is no feedback tracker now, let me explain step by step how to repro this.

First spawn 2 man squad, yourself as commander, and ammo truck, ammo crate near you. Preview the mission. Now open map, get to "Squad" tab and open inventory of your buddy, delete his rifle magazines, so there will left only 2 or 1 mag (he will cry for ammo) - rest (ammo you deleted) should be on the ground. Now move him a little further (at least 50M from thise mags on the ground). NOW order him to rearm at truck, ammo crates or take ammo from the ground, watch what happen.

Thanks for catching this, Vasily.B.

I'm wondering, so perhaps someone can give me clarification on this.

When talking about soldiers needing to be commanded to get ammo when they need it or even something as basic as medics needing to be commanded to heal someone, is this kind of design done intentionally or is it a limitation of the engine? I just feel like soldiers should automatically try to replenish their ammo when they need it and medic's should automatically heal others (and guys with FAK's that aren't medics should try to heal themselves). I just don't feel like I should have to babysit my squad like this.

I guess I can see how perhaps this wouldn't be desirable in a rigorously scripted (meaning set-piece style or whatever. Not literally heavy on scripts) missions so maybe it is done on purpose. I don't know. But for the most part the friendly AI just really really frustrate me.

They can't drive. They don't like to replenish their supplies when low. They don't heal themselves and guys like medics don't do their jobs. I know there are custom scripts available to help these things (VCOM AI Driving/Automedic/etc) but I just don't get why these things aren't being added to the game over time.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me so I can at least understand why things are the way they are?

[inlesco 233]

As this is related to AI and overall immersion, here's an example of a solid ragdoll of a dead body looks like: https://youtu.be/Xjq5VlPdAe4?t=4m10s

 

A3 is nowhere equal to it. On death, soldiers unrealistically flinch, their weapons / launchers dropped on the ground look like feathers pushed away by the wind.

 

I've even seen a Titan AT do a 360 in the air and then falling on the ground.

 

Surely, this should be improved ASAP. The question is now - when exactly :)

[Vasily.B 529]

About weapons in the air - its PhysX rendered. Same as ragdols. So if we are on topic of PhysX, there comes tanks of course. Updating PhysX will need rework lot of features, but it need to be done anyway, so i would do this before Tanoa expansion. After tanks, ragdols and other stuff related to physx would be fixed you woulld have much less bugs to worry about. In same time AI guys would fix Reversing, rearming and healing. Graphisc guys could update Truesky plugin meanwhile.... This is all possible, i dont know what have bigger priorities for now to be honest.

[en3x 209]

1. Originally scheduled for Eden Update (but now targeting Arma 3 Apex), our Visual Update aims to overhaul the game lighting configuration, and introduce new Sea Shader and Screen-space Reflections tech.
2. A variety of Usability Improvements are in store for 2016. Switching weapons, de-cluttering interactions , configuring game difficulty and more - our objective is to address some long-standing UX needs.
3. We're looking forward to extending Arma 3 Units. We aim to introduce event organisation, integrate parts of the service in-game, and make jumping into multiplayer quicker and easier than ever.
4. We want to continue making scripted systems and mods perform better and do more. Working together with our community, further Script Command Improvements, Additions and Optimisations are on the horizon.
5. Several scripted Multiplayer Systems (such as Revive and Dynamic Groups) were prototyped last year. As we head towards Apex, together with optimisation, we aim to extend and finalise their functionality.
6. The introduction of New Vehicle Classes (namely, Light Strike Vehicles and VTOL aircraft) stands to create some fun new gameplay opportunities, and provide new ways of exploring our large terrains.
7. Speaking of terrains, our final item we consider to be the crown jewels of Arma 3 Apex. 100 square kilometres of South Pacific archipelago, and your next battlefield: it's Tanoa.

Source: https://arma3.com/news/scanning-the-horizon-arma-3-in-2016#.VstNDq822Uk

 

So programmers work on:

 

Visual package (Screen space reflection, sea shader, game lighting configs)

Switching weapons, interactions (action menu?), configuring game difficulty

Arma 3 units: events

Scripted command improvements, ongoing optimization

Revive and dynamic groups

New vehicle classes LST and VTOL aircraft

[Vasily.B 529]

Switching weapons, interactions (action menu?) - what we need more in this case - we have now simply weapons switching that can be binded to any key,
Visual package (Screen space reflection, sea shader, game lighting configs) - ok but nothing about TrueSky plugin which is updated and ready to use.
Scripted command improvements, ongoing optimization - OK
Revive and dynamic groups - There is ACE 3 and other mods - nothing will beat it - should be lower priority.

New vehicle classes LST and VTOL aircraft - another $ DLC. Is this what players really need? Really? In one line of text they talk about community - the community mades vehicles, problem is, this vehicles will have limitation, that bohemia throw as lower priority. And this is related not only to vehicles - weapons too. Titan still havent top-down atack mode, launchers cannot be used prone. tanks canot reverse when its mostly needed... I really hope they reading this, beacuse those are NOW major bugs (they werent when they were reported, but time is making them more important every month, every players death by those bugs accidents.

This talks for itself:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=630463734

I Meet All this bugs EVERY DAY, its really not funny and i cant enjoy such game.
 

[en3x 209]

I'm not sure about weapon switching - do they mean switching different weapon stations with direct keys? (resolving cycling through nightvision modes, thermals...)

Or do they mean switching weapons on the move?Or switching weapons with keys?

 

Not everyone uses ACE, and there's plenty of public servers - native in-engine "revive" and "dynamic group" would be far better then any

scripted systems, however good.

 

New assets coming with tanoa do deserve new vehicle classes.However I do agree that creating something new while

existing class is still broken (tankX) does seem questionable.

 

Believe me when I say that I would love to see phyX tank implementation fixed reworked and revisted, but in same breath I

also understand that bohemians set the rules of their game, not me, or anyone else.I can only suggest...

[froggyluv 2130]

As this is related to AI and overall immersion, here's an example of a solid ragdoll of a dead body looks like: https://youtu.be/Xjq5VlPdAe4?t=4m10s

 

A3 is nowhere equal to it. On death, soldiers unrealistically flinch, their weapons / launchers dropped on the ground look like feathers pushed away by the wind.

 

I've even seen a Titan AT do a 360 in the air and then falling on the ground.

 

Surely, this should be improved ASAP. The question is now - when exactly :)

 

 Yes!

 

 So much this. Never thought Id miss Arma2 animations after finally getting ragdoll but the ragdoll is not progressing. At least in Ofp-Arma2, guys could in a sense fall when they're legs were shot and that is real time functional penalty to that AI -dragging himself around trying to fight. Now we have flinchies and a supposed aiming penalty tho I dont really see or feel it, probably because all subSkills are already so high that penalties are arbitrary. I literally just had a Marksman at normal skill square off with a Crewman (!) who was set to the lowest skill level on the slider at 800m apart, and moving toward each other. Guess who won 6 out of 10 times (hint, not Mark).

 

Appreciate the hell out of the disable Autodanger but we need more, especially for Tanoa. They've said the animation system is already pushed beyond its limits but find it hard to believe those ragdolls cant be bettered. Or the way that injured soldier took a knee -that could surely be implemented.

 

If only I could animate.....

[old_painless 182]

unit disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT" - unit will stay in whatever behaviour is set, for example AWARE.

[grp, 2] setWaypointForceBehaviour true - group will stay in waypoint behaviour (won't switch to combat)

 

Scripting, you say. As far as I can tell, this new feature is then worthless in existing missions, unless I am the author and can change the mission? So basically the 1.000+ missions on Steam workshop can not benefit from this breakthrough. Or the missions that I have in my library of prime community missions.

 

Why not simply add a MoveNow command to the action menu items to accompany the Move command? That would allow this feature to affect existing missions.

 

I almost hope that I misunderstand the requirement of scripting before this can be used,

 

OP

[old_painless 182]

Scripting, you say. As far as I can tell, this new feature is then worthless in existing missions, unless I am the author and can change the mission? So basically the 1.000+ missions on Steam workshop can not benefit from this breakthrough. Or the missions that I have in my library of prime community missions.

 

Why not simply add a MoveNow command to the action menu items to accompany the Move There command? That would allow this feature to affect existing missions.

 

I almost hope that I misunderstand the requirement of scripting before this can be used,

 

OP

I don't know how I managed to reply to my own question, LOL. Please delete this

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

 

1. Originally scheduled for Eden Update (but now targeting Arma 3 Apex), our Visual Update aims to overhaul the game lighting configuration, and introduce new Sea Shader and Screen-space Reflections tech.
2. A variety of Usability Improvements are in store for 2016. Switching weapons, de-cluttering interactions , configuring game difficulty and more - our objective is to address some long-standing UX needs.
3. We're looking forward to extending Arma 3 Units. We aim to introduce event organisation, integrate parts of the service in-game, and make jumping into multiplayer quicker and easier than ever.
4. We want to continue making scripted systems and mods perform better and do more. Working together with our community, further Script Command Improvements, Additions and Optimisations are on the horizon.
5. Several scripted Multiplayer Systems (such as Revive and Dynamic Groups) were prototyped last year. As we head towards Apex, together with optimisation, we aim to extend and finalise their functionality.
6. The introduction of New Vehicle Classes (namely, Light Strike Vehicles and VTOL aircraft) stands to create some fun new gameplay opportunities, and provide new ways of exploring our large terrains.
7. Speaking of terrains, our final item we consider to be the crown jewels of Arma 3 Apex. 100 square kilometres of South Pacific archipelago, and your next battlefield: it's Tanoa.

Source: https://arma3.com/news/scanning-the-horizon-arma-3-in-2016#.VstNDq822Uk

 

So programmers work on:

 

Visual package (Screen space reflection, sea shader, game lighting configs)

Switching weapons, interactions (action menu?), configuring game difficulty

Arma 3 units: events

Scripted command improvements, ongoing optimization

Revive and dynamic groups

New vehicle classes LST and VTOL aircraft

 

 

Think they have recruited bis_fnc_kk to spearhead the work on SQF improvements.

[oukej 2910]

First its already reported SOMEWHERE on feedback

• http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22452
• http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27555

One of those or both. Can't check either atm. We are aware of it.

We are also aware of the driving issues (cutting corners, not avoiding obstacles on road, tank commanding...).

It has been acknowledged and as "in progress". Please bear with us. Even if something may look simple and elementary on the first glance. When it comes to actually coding it and making it work reliably and universally it can turn into a job worth several months with an uncertain outcome. Even functional scripted workarounds don't always ensure feasibility. (And be sure we take a very close look at anything that could make our job easier ;))

As for the rest - keep the thread AI focused please ;) Thanks a lot!

 

[Vasily.B 529]

There is broken "DontCreateAI" parameter



http://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=1882
 

[inlesco 233]

 

• http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22452
• http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27555

One of those or both. Can't check either atm. We are aware of it.

We are also aware of the driving issues (cutting corners, not avoiding obstacles on road, tank commanding...).

It has been acknowledged and as "in progress". Please bear with us. Even if something may look simple and elementary on the first glance. When it comes to actually coding it and making it work reliably and universally it can turn into a job worth several months with an uncertain outcome. Even functional scripted workarounds don't always ensure feasibility. (And be sure we take a very close look at anything that could make our job easier ;))

As for the rest - keep the thread AI focused please ;) Thanks a lot!

 

 

Guys, I've always admired your brevity and focus on the AI as it's one of the most overlooked and don't-give-a-fuck things among devs in the industry, plus, as MP and e-sports are overwhelming the scene, a good AI becomes unappreciated by the majority.

 

Keep the great updates up!

 

- Your happy customer :D

[seba1976 98]

Small units will always need AI. I've always feared BIS shutting AI for good some day. That would be a really bad day. Please fix the driving, It's affecting the type of missions that can be simulated to a point of no return.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Scripting, you say. As far as I can tell, this new feature is then worthless in existing missions, unless I am the author and can change the mission? So basically the 1.000+ missions on Steam workshop can not benefit from this breakthrough. Or the missions that I have in my library of prime community missions.

 

Why not simply add a MoveNow command to the action menu items to accompany the Move command? That would allow this feature to affect existing missions.

 

I almost hope that I misunderstand the requirement of scripting before this can be used,

 

OP

 

Could be modded in as an extra command, though I am not sure if it can be put into the normal commanding menu.

[old_painless 182]

Oh yes absolutely moddable. For instance, it would fit nicely in the C2 mod or WW AI.

 

Imagine the high-fives around their offices when they cracked this problem that has plagued AI team control for years. I just simply can not understand why BI go through all this trouble, but fail to make it accessible in-game. Still hoping for the MoveNow as a feature in the normal commanding menu :)

[cosmic10r 2326]

Because it's not the magic bullet that you may be thinking it is :)

[old_painless 182]

well perhaps not, but still it was released on stable branch so not regarded by BI as experimental anymore. So why not add a command to allow people to try it out? As with several commands on the commanding system you learn what works in a certain situation (still waiting for driving, though :) )

[cosmic10r 2326]

Exactly right... I think it's another tool in the toolbox... but it has its issues in some cases. In some contexts it will help accomplish some things.

I'm with you... driving is one of my last few major gripes...

Although it was odd. I was trying icebreakrs new Isla Abramia and the ai drive that like nobody's business. Makes me almost think it's a combination of pathing and ai perception... there are some tight mountainside corners and they made it very well... like shockingly well.

[old_painless 182]

I am no expert but I have understood that you can do a lot as terrain builder for designating a stretch of terrain to be a "drivable road". Might be Icebreakers experience in these matters showing.

 

But if you take Altis as a case, the poor driving appears when they have to navigate the small cities w/ narrow streets. They handle the highways in open country rather well.

 

Or if you have placed down a barrier of some kind in your mission they do not see it (so their inner Google Maps is out of sync with the world). They will crash into it repeatedly

 

Finally, any convoy driving across Altis through small towns is not working.

 

So more than one vehicle, or custom structures, or the small towns will need some AI TLC

[cosmic10r 2326]

I wonder if the sheer scale of altis make map tweaks not doable.

There is one spot on altis where they drive into a rock near the junction and beach the vehicle there... Uber aggravating lol

[haleks 8206]

All I want is to be able to make a convoy mission on fallujah that works. :wub:

 

Convoys is one mission type that is barely feasable at the moment - even the one from the campaign feels clunky.

Oh boy, just imagine a 10 vehicles long convoy going through hell, reacting as one man, keeping formation etc...

 

But I guess that would also require some kind of UI overhaul : the current command system is not so fluid and managing team members affected to different vehicles is ...painfull.

I would love to see the zeus interface somehow integrated to the rest of the game.