AI Discussion (dev branch)

[mad_cheese 593]

Oh yes absolutely moddable. For instance, it would fit nicely in the C2 mod or WW AI.

caugh.. it's already in C2 :) although shame on me, due to a nooby script line it's still dev-build only right now :(

 

Because it's not the magic bullet that you may be thinking it is

I agree on that. It's not perfect but it still makes a significant difference. I have high hopes that the reason why they didn't implement it yet is due to their idea of making auto-danger a lot better, to the point where it's actually convenient instead of a headache

 

All I want is to be able to make a convoy mission on fallujah that works. :wub:

 I would almost put up money that this is never going to happen. I guess the only way to achieve this is by scripting it 100% (unitplay etc with all it's pet peeves), basically what all other games do, at least the ones I have ever seen. :(

Having said that.. driving right now is 'not very satisfying' lol

[NeMeSiS 11]

Oh yes absolutely moddable. For instance, it would fit nicely in the C2 mod or WW AI.

 

Imagine the high-fives around their offices when they cracked this problem that has plagued AI team control for years. I just simply can not understand why BI go through all this trouble, but fail to make it accessible in-game. Still hoping for the MoveNow as a feature in the normal commanding menu :)

It is not 'Movenow', and explaining what it does to most of the community is pretty much impossible and would only create more frustration ("My AI stopped fighting properly after i told them to move, WTF", or worse "The AI sucks").

 

An actual easy to use force move command would need some extra stuff.

[seba1976 98]

Oh yes absolutely moddable. For instance, it would fit nicely in the C2 mod or WW AI.

 

Imagine the high-fives around their offices when they cracked this problem that has plagued AI team control for years. I just simply can not understand why BI go through all this trouble, but fail to make it accessible in-game. Still hoping for the MoveNow as a feature in the normal commanding menu :)

 

It's been left to scripters because only scripters can understand what it does. The real problem was not preventing the AI units from going into danger mode by themselves, it was getting them out of it by some condition, external to their own FSMs, and still is.

[old_painless 182]

caugh.. it's already in C2 :) although shame on me, due to a nooby script line it's still dev-build only right now :(

Looking forward to that :)

 

It is not 'Movenow', and explaining what it does to most of the community is pretty much impossible and would only create more frustration ("My AI stopped fighting properly after i told them to move, WTF", or worse "The AI sucks").

 

An actual easy to use force move command would need some extra stuff.

 

 

It's been left to scripters because only scripters can understand what it does. The real problem was not preventing the AI units from going into danger mode by themselves, it was getting them out of it by some condition, external to their own FSMs, and still is.

 

@NeMeSiS, seba1976: Right, I get your point(s). A MoveNow command would not be appropriate wording, as it is not so much about the movement. "Disengage" might be more appropriate (we have that, it just does not work always). Or you could declare "AreaClear", like wiping the threat picture temporarily. And then the subordinates would respond to standard move commands. Implementation-wise, it would be obvious for BI to enter the new command in the Engage or Combat menus (3 or 7).

 

Having been faced with the stuck AI while commanding, I think I understand what BI is trying to achieve. Even as a non-scripter. For instance, one unit in my team would refuse to board a heli because they have picked up a scent. Or just getting them to move into an armoured vehicle while under fire can also be difficult.

-OP

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

The real problem was not preventing the AI units from going into danger mode by themselves, it was getting them out of it by some condition, external to their own FSMs, and still is.

 

It's still barely working... The group leader is fleeing like a rabbit when disabling autocombat but for the rest of his team, it's clearly unreliable. Sometimes they follow their leader, some are getting stuck, some are still firing...

[old_painless 182]

Hm, disappointing to hear. Was autocombat disabled for all the units, or just the group lead ?

[Vasily.B 529]

I am no expert but I have understood that you can do a lot as terrain builder for designating a stretch of terrain to be a "drivable road". Might be Icebreakers experience in these matters showing.

 

But if you take Altis as a case, the poor driving appears when they have to navigate the small cities w/ narrow streets. They handle the highways in open country rather well.

 

Or if you have placed down a barrier of some kind in your mission they do not see it (so their inner Google Maps is out of sync with the world). They will crash into it repeatedly

 

Finally, any convoy driving across Altis through small towns is not working.

 

So more than one vehicle, or custom structures, or the small towns will need some AI TLC

There is more, after preview of RHS mod showcase demo mission "First Contact", i was highly disapointed how AI was driving normal Ural truck There was normal crossroads and AI wasnt able to turn left, just forward-rewerse X 20 times. It clearly showed how AI needs work.

About autocombat, it dont work for tanks for sure.

 

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

Hm, disappointing to hear. Was autocombat disabled for all the units, or just the group lead ?

 

All units.

 

Here the sqf I'm calling through a trigger. Feel free to comment or tell me how to correct/improve it (just place a group where the leader is called wz_g1 and a marker called wz_wp1 where they'll run to)

g1 =  group wz_g1;

hint "flee you fool !";

_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

{
  sleep 0.1;
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "COVER";

} forEach units group wz_g1;

Test scenario:

I start shooting the group, they get on the ground and start firing back then after few 15 seconds the trigger is running this small sqf.

[old_painless 182]

Thanks for sharing - I'll try that out tonight. Nice hint, btw :)

 

Edit:

 

OK, I tried it out in Stable branch. No mods, except CBA3.

 

Scenario: A CSAT recon team at an initial location on Stratis runway. A marker placed up the runway, where I want them to move to. I placed myself as concealed shooter overseeing their initial location and the marker.

 

I used two triggers:

 

1) MoveNow trigger: gives the team a waypoint at the marker with autodanger disabled, so runs your code

2) VanillaMove trigger:gave the team a waypoint at the marker but did not change any autodanger properties. So standard, unmodded behaviour

 

Objective was then to try and see if the two move orders would act out differently if they were under fire from me, while moving towards the marker.

 

It turned out quite well, I think. If I used the vanilla behaviour and told them to move, when shot at (by me) they would stop moving and try and find me and take me out.

 

If I tried with the autodanger disabled (your code), they would not stop moving even when I shot at them en route. They would make it to the waypoint at the marker. So that is really a MoveNow! command.

 

Now, once they have made it to their waypoint it is vital to reset the autodanger back to its old setting. The autodanger commands in your code is basically a lobotomy. Once that is in effect, you can walk right up to them and take them out.

 

So I would suggest the ability to disable autodanger, and to enable it (put it back in its old state).

 

Edit 2: A bit less positive observations

 

I tried to have the CSAT team in danger mode BEFORE being given the autocombat disabled and move order. I did that by shooting at them at their initial placement and they would then start engaging me back as expected. Now, if I give them the first trigger command to move with autocombat disabled, the results are mixed. The leader will typically break and run towards the waypoint (so MoveNow for him) but the team mates hang back and are not disengaging and seem to not have their autocombat disabled. Hm, I guess that is what you saw, too

[old_painless 182]

Another test to try and figure out why autocombat apparently gets disabled for the team lead, but not his subordinates. I replaced the loop over units in the group with this where each named unit get their autocombat disabled. The units are called pm, rs, rm and wz_g1 (group leader):

g1 =  group wz_g1;

hint "flee you fool !";

_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

  sleep 0.1;
  pm disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  pm disableAI "TARGET";
  pm disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  pm disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  rs disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  rs disableAI "TARGET";
  rs disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  rs disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  rm disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  rm disableAI "TARGET";
  rm disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  rm disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  wz_g1 disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  wz_g1 disableAI "TARGET";
  wz_g1 disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  wz_g1 disableAI "COVER";

It seemed to work better, even when engaged they would move all of them, no stragglers. Not sure if it is a fluke, perhaps someone else could test it out ?

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Another test to try and figure out why autocombat apparently gets disabled for the team lead, but not his subordinates. I replaced the loop over units in the group with this where each named unit get their autocombat disabled. The units are called pm, rs, rm and wz_g1 (group leader):

g1 =  group wz_g1;

hint "flee you fool !";

_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

  sleep 0.1;
  pm disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  pm disableAI "TARGET";
  pm disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  pm disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  rs disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  rs disableAI "TARGET";
  rs disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  rs disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  rm disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  rm disableAI "TARGET";
  rm disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  rm disableAI "COVER";

  sleep 0.1;
  wz_g1 disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  wz_g1 disableAI "TARGET";
  wz_g1 disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  wz_g1 disableAI "COVER";

It seemed to work better, even when engaged they would move all of them, no stragglers. Not sure if it is a fluke, perhaps someone else could test it out ?

 

 

A working theory I have is that it is to do with assignedTarget/Target system.

 

When the subordinates have an assigned target, they are in firing/acquirelock/acquire target mode, which is not itself combat mode. Just a theory. 

 

Been using the new disableAI 'autocombat' as Zeus on 60 player I&A server. If anyone wants videos/tests of the AI in this situation (big firefights), let me know.

[inlesco 233]

I always wondered - are AI commands like move forward / reverse, strafe left / right hardcoded or it's possible to get a realistic looking solution through scripting?

 

If making dynamic AI movement is possible through scripting, time to make a convoy formation for vehicles. I'm sure this community is capable of that.

[old_painless 182]

A working theory I have is that it is to do with assignedTarget/Target system.

 

When the subordinates have an assigned target, they are in firing/acquirelock/acquire target mode, which is not itself combat mode. Just a theory. 

 

Been using the new disableAI 'autocombat' as Zeus on 60 player I&A server. If anyone wants videos/tests of the AI in this situation (big firefights), let me know.

 

I suspect you may be right about the targeting. One theory that might explain what I have seen above:

 

If a group is engaging/knows about targets, perhaps the subordinates first and foremost are in targeting mode. Not so much the group leader, he might be targeting coordinator rather than actively engaging himself.

 

That would explain why the group leader immediately hauls ass when having autocombat disabled, while his team stays behind. Autocombat disabling only works when you are not actively targeting something.

 

The subordinates need to be freed out of the "engaging" state before the autocombat stuff will be allowed to work for them.

 

Like I say, just a theory.....

 

-OP

[seba1976 98]

If that's the case, you can try adding:

_x commandWatch objNull;

To each unit, before the rest of the set.

[old_painless 182]

I got some even better results from removing suppression effects as well. In all my tests, unless wounded, all units in the group would move when told to. Even under fire en route, and even when having been in danger mode before being given the move order.

 

So the cocktail (for a unit called pm) is:

  pm disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  pm disableAI "TARGET";
  pm disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  pm disableAI "COVER";
  pm disableAI "SUPPRESSION";

Thanks for the tip about commandWatch, seba !

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

I'm getting better result in setting the waypoing after a 3 second sleep after all the disableAI.

Still, if an AI was firing at me when the script si started, the AI is completly stuck, unable to move, even through Zeus assigned WP for example.

I even tried to start by a setCombatMode "BLUE", wait some time but I always get the same result...

[infrareddimming 195]

Small question/suggestion to the grand wizard oukej:

 

Would it be possible to introduce a group behaviour that allows AI to have weapons lowered but still keep formation (especially in "LIMITED" speed mode)?

As of now you can set them to "SAFE" or "CARELESS" which results in weapons lowered but formation being changed into a very loose trail formation.

 

Would be nice to have an option to have AI groups keep formation with weapons lowered.

 

Cheers

 

Yes, this has been a pet peeve of mine since OFP. I would love for formation options to be unlocked in safe mode. Makes patrolling much more immersive if we're able to adopt a wedge formation for example. 

[mad_cheese 593]

Still, if an AI was firing at me when the script si started, the AI is completly stuck, unable to move, even through Zeus assigned WP for example.

I even tried to start by a setCombatMode "BLUE", wait some time but I always get the same result...

 

probably because he's still targeting you. Seba's post above should help!

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

 

probably because he's still targeting you. Seba's post above should help!

 

I already included his advice.

g1 =  group wz_g1;

hint "flee you fools !";

g1 setCombatMode "BLUE";
sleep 10.0;

{
  sleep 0.1;
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "COVER";
  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x commandWatch objNull;

} forEach units group wz_g1;

sleep 3.0;

_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

[old_painless 182]

 

I already included his advice.

 

I had a breakthrough with this code combo. It turned out as hoped in more than 10 test runs:

hint "flee you fool !";

{
  _x commandWatch objNull;
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";

} forEach units group wz_g1;

g1 =  group wz_g1;
_wp = g1 addWaypoint [getMarkerPos "wz_wp1", 20] ;
_wp setWaypointSpeed "FULL";
_wp setWaypointBehaviour "AWARE";
_wp setWaypointType "MOVE";

It works, ie. they run for the waypoint, under all these scenarios:

• I engage the group from a distance and suppress them, they get up and run
• The suppression has worn off, but they are not yet shooting at me (so acquiring/searching/scanning for me)
• They have been suppressed, and are now returning fire after having acquired my position

 

AFAICT, there is a slight difference in sequence of the various disableAI commands between my code and yours. I tried out different ones and found that it could matter. This sequence was the one that ended up working in my test.

 

Please see if it could make a difference for you ?

 

-OP

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

 

Please see if it could make a difference for you ?

 

-OP

 

Yep, working fine now !! Excellent !!!  :wub:

[old_painless 182]

Awesome! Seems that this is the proper cocktail to make AI move under fire:
 

 

(Sorry for lousy quality, just tried out MSI Afterburner, still need to figure out compression etc.)

[froggyluv 2135]

^^^^ You guys are awesome. Just tried this and Ive been waiting a long,long time to see this. They just run -really run! Thru gunfire *faints*

 

 Thanks BI also for providing this finally

 

 

 

 

 

 

  :D

[old_painless 182]

Finally indeed!

 

Now we just need some modmaker to make a command for it :D

 

OP

[cosmic10r 2331]

Nice work guys... can you get them back to vanilla bis reactions at the end of the move ?