AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Bouben 3]

I have a question, for developers if possible.

When playing the Mission in Episode 2 where you have to steal the fuel truck, I have noticed that the enemy is completely non-reactive to shooting and taking casualties aside from individual squads reacting.

Basically, I wonder if there is any plan/intent to give the enemy the ability to react to casualties globally. Usually if even a single patrol takes casualties or gets shot at, the reaction is usually pretty big. I noticed that they sent a single strider to investigate, but after I shot that, nobody else ever came around. At this point, halfway through the mission, I have destroyed every tank and truck inside the town itself, and probably killed every footsoldier.

It makes the mission easier for sure, but it's a major break in the suspension of disbelief if the reaction by the enemy is so weak.

So, will the AI be able to communicate between squads and support each other in the future in some kind of upper-echelon "All Units of this set belong to the same super-unit (A company, for example) and will share information and send help to each other" unit formation?

I would say that this is simply a badly designed mission.

I agree with the rest that it would be better to have it as a behaviour module.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Maybe even have radio squad members that if killed limits the range in which a squad can call reinforcements from.

If you attack a situation best to get eyes on the radio squad member first or ai communicates to other ai further afield.

[x3kj 1247]

Sadly the implementation would be more difficult than it seems :(

What about a command "rearm at this position" - you tell a Soldier to move to the pointed position and he will automatically check the closest "container" (crates, soldiers, etc) to this position if they match his weapon/ desired supplies. If they don't, he will investigate the second furthest container from the position and so on. If he can't find any matching in a range of X meters, or after Y attempts, he reports a "can't do". This would reduce the micromanaging of the rearm process.

This wouldnt require any interactiveness from the player, but the player can shorten the process of reloading by directing the AI to a position close to where the player knows that there is matching ammo to be found there. And in case of multiple containers (many dead bodies) would solve the problems of trying to select a container directly via the "action" menu.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Fennek

[oukej 2911]

What about a command "rearm at this position" - you tell a Soldier to move to the pointed position and he will automatically check the closest "container" (crates, soldiers, etc) to this position if they match his weapon/ desired supplies. If they don't, he will investigate the second furthest container from the position and so on. If he can't find any matching in a range of X meters, or after Y attempts, he reports a "can't do". This would reduce the micromanaging of the rearm process.

Ordering the AI to "rearm" already sends it to the nearest known container with suitable ammo and equipment.

[seba1976 98]

Ordering the AI to "rearm" already sends it to the nearest known container with suitable ammo and equipment.

How much ammo can take the AI from the container?

[Greenfist 1863]

How much ammo can take the AI from the container?

I think it's the same as when you do it yourself. Something like 6 mags and 3 grenades etc.

[seba1976 98]

I think it's the same as when you do it yourself. Something like 6 mags and 3 grenades etc.

Thanks, I never did it myself :). I believe the last time I've checked the AI took like 2 mags.

[five_seven5-7 56]

What can I do if AI get stuck in a path that can not get out?

(one AI was trap in Kavala near the Hospital down the road)

If i told with to get in the chopper it says no, if i told him to move in a direction it moves to the balcony and says cannot comply if try to send him to fetch a gun it moves around the building and stops...

I tried the shoot and first aid without success.

[oukej 2911]

Ordering the AI to "rearm" already sends it to the nearest known container with suitable ammo and equipment.

It should try to grab anything to get back to it's initial loadout (as defined in config) with respect to the currently held weapons if these are different from the initial loadout.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

What can I do if AI get stuck in a path that can not get out?

(one AI was trap in Kavala near the Hospital down the road)

Was the AI placed in the building or you've ordered it to go there? Could you please try to reproduce it if it happens again? Or PM me a pic or coords of the exact position/building?

[instagoat 133]

I have a question. I've just finished bingo fuel, with AI settings on skill 100 and accuracy 25. However...

I killed over 50 Soldiers (An entire platoon), destroyed 2 wheeled APCs, 2 IFVs, at least 3 MRAPs and damaged at least one more APC beyond repair. I did all of this without support from my AI friends, because the enemy AI did never react to being shot at from large distances (aside from starting to run around for a bit and then stopping again), they did not try to get me inside a building, they walked into killzones, ignored nearby shooting and never attacked me more than one soldier at a time.

How is this possible, from an average player like me?

And I don't want to hear "AI mods plz", because I want to play the vanilla campaigns without them breaking. The problem is that the enemy AI is beyond easy, even at the highest settings possible, at least tactically. You can make them super snipers, but their ability to attack and move is very slight compared to the advances of the rest of the game. For example, when I destroyed one MRAP with a captured launcher from about 1.2 km away, the AI reacted very briefly to the explosion, but then resumed their normal "follow waypoints" pattern as if nothing had happened. They also ignore corpses (Thief had this down way back when. There's run of the mill shooters and rpgs now that do this.) and are not morally impacted by taking fire at all.

They also prefer walking down streets and open places instead of taking cover, and when being shot at do not move. I killed two supposedly much better trained CSAT soldiers in a prior mission when they took cover in the middle of the road and started taking pot-shots at me (me with a machinegun, crouched behind a rock). In this mission I had only a single instance of an AI flanking me, which was nice, unfortunately he was alone and instead of keeping to shoot, he preferred to shoot, run a bit and then try to shoot again. Gave me a lot of time to fix my mistake of not observing my flank.

I like the campaign. Unfortunately being able to do things like this is a major break in my suspension in disbelief. Who am I, John McLane or your average soldier stranded on a hostile Island? If the enemy were completely accessible in the recon mode, you could destroy the entire occupation force on your own. Just hide in a building, they'll come to you piecemeal and all up the same path. And they also don't try to enter the building. Or try to shell it with a tank. And if you don't move, they forget you're inside the building after ten minutes max.

There's so much stuff in here. Will the AI be getting a major makeover with regards to its ability in capability sometime in the future? Not rifle accuracy, but tactical ability?

[supercereal4 29]

How is this possible, from an average player like me?

Yeah I've also noticed that the AI have gotten much easier lately. I used to play this one "Alamo-style" mission that was fairly difficult, but the last few days have been very easy; AI would hardly shoot at me and would attack one at a time. They did however try to use rockets against me, which impressed me. But yeah I've seen a negative change in AI aggression as well lately.

[twisted 128]

Can't the distance and name of possible (and logical) ammo sites be listed such as: Nato Basic -10m, Dead Soldier -30m....etc

Rather than: Katiba; Katiba; Katiba.... any of which could be 500m away.

I thought these were ordered by proximity? Which while not as informative as having distances, at least provides a point of reference.

Agree ai should react to deaths around them, especially with the marksman Dlc coming out. Suppression should be engine based and appropriate to the level of fire and affect ai And players. Group based bounding move and fire should be a thing too when in combat mode. That's a fundamental. To achieve this ai leaders would probably have a few states in combat mode like attack, take cover & hold, and fall back that are determined by way points and knowledge of enemy. These represent the broad ways a unit would react to contact and enemy numbers as well as deaths in group.

Also would really like to see ai control made more robust and dependable when slingloading using way points. Right now I get about a 20% success rate when using the hook way point on an object. The object is light enough to transport. This severely limits the usefulness of the slingloading aspect of the helicopter Dlc.

Edited February 2, 2015 by twisted

[oukej 2911]

I have a question. I've just finished bingo fuel, with AI settings on skill 100 and accuracy 25. However...

...

they did not try to get me inside a building, they walked into killzones, ignored nearby shooting and never attacked me more than one soldier at a time.

...

Yeah I've also noticed that the AI have gotten much easier lately. ... AI would hardly shoot at me and would attack one at a time. They did however try to use rockets against me, which impressed me. But yeah I've seen a negative change in AI aggression as well lately.

Aren't you just getting better? ;) No, now seriously, this sounds interesting. There hasn't been any "dumbing down" lately.

AI doesn't follow you into buildings (and you can exploit it), which is a fact but it's not new. AI firing rockets at you, supposing you were on foot - that would be new and shouldn't be like that.

Otherwise

- the AI should avoid taking cover which has been fired at or is under the FOV of the enemy - foundation of this has even been improved quite recently

- AI should react to fire if the bullet impacts somewhere close (currently the AI doesn't react to passing bullets) or if it sees or hears the weapon fire

- Once alerted the AI should either go prone or take cover (or consequently both) and try to find the source of the threat

- Unlike some dive-into-the-haystack games the AI should happily plunge at you in numbers ;)

Could you please elaborate more on the issues you've been experiencing? Have you tried some showcases recently? Could you guess when it could have changed?

Do others have similar feeling about the vanilla AI as well?

Thanks a lot!

[killzone_kid 1331]

Maybe this is because setskill now works as it should and doesnt get autoset to 11 regardless of mission settings?

[oukej 2911]

That issue was valid only for units in MP environment and only those that were remote to the server. (units on server had correct skills - in terms of behavior, only the skill/skillFinal commands were getting wrong values)

[Variable 322]

Do others have similar feeling about the vanilla AI as well?

I didn't play Bingo fuel lately, but playing some custom made missions using vanilla AI I didn't observe any of these issues. The AI was accurate and aggressive. Skill 0.7, Accuracy 0.3

Edited February 3, 2015 by Variable

[Wolfenswan 1]

That issue was valid only for units in MP environment and only those that were remote to the server. (units on server had correct skills - in terms of behavior, only the skill/skillFinal commands were getting wrong values)

Can you clarify one thing about the fix:

In a MP environment with a dedicated server, will the AI-values set in server.cfg (precision & skill) affect ALL AI (no matter locality) or will client settings still affect AI local to them?

[oukej 2911]

Can you clarify one thing about the fix:

In a MP environment with a dedicated server, will the AI-values set in server.cfg (precision & skill) affect ALL AI (no matter locality) or will client settings still affect AI local to them?

Server is the one and only king when it comes to the AI Level.

[Robalo 465]

Hi oukej,

Can we please get this page documented with arguments and effects locality info ?

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array

Thanks!

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Played bingo fuel last week. Not on Dev branch.

My actions. Went to town found tank. Rpg tank. 2 direct ass shots it blew.

Ai reaction. Nearest squad or what remains. I dropped 3 before the lasy 2pinpoint me. 2 engage Me, moving position I take them both out.

As i finish off that squad near tank.

Another Squad has closed In on my position.wasn't sure if they were nearby or came from other end of town.

Just curious oukej, do squads move to explosions or a firefight in the distance.

[seba1976 98]

Played bingo fuel last week. Not on Dev branch.

My actions. Went to town found tank. Rpg tank. 2 direct ass shots it blew.

Ai reaction. Nearest squad or what remains. I dropped 3 before the lasy 2pinpoint me. 2 engage Me, moving position I take them both out.

As i finish off that squad near tank.

Another Squad has closed In on my position.wasn't sure if they were nearby or came from other end of town.

Just curious oukej, do squads move to explosions or a firefight in the distance.

It's not an engine thing, it depends on mission designer. If a group has a GUARD waypoint, they will move toward any engaged units of their own side.

[otrebla_snake_ita 2]

What about AI in close combat? Is Bohemia going to improve AI in cqc encounters? Above all in these situations the AI seems very buggy and it looks like it doesn't know how to react! Soldiers moving following a nonsense path, stopping and looking for nothing and similar situations should be fixed :)

[seba1976 98]

;2874216']What about AI in close combat? Is Bohemia going to improve AI in cqc encounters? Above all in these situations the AI seems very buggy and it looks like it doesn't know how to react! Soldiers moving following a nonsense path' date=' stopping and looking for nothing and similar situations should be fixed :)[/quote']

I'm afraid things will be like that for a long time. Just try to enjoy what's there, because it's nowhere else.

[inlesco 233]

Quick Q to BIS: Will AI be able to make use of bipods / weapon resting?

[roberthammer 582]

Quick Q to BIS: Will AI be able to make use of bipods / weapon resting?

Aren't they accurate enough without bipods? :p

maybe they will use auto-rest on AI when their weapon has a bipod