Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[audiocustoms 375]

... and I wish the soundmodders will make their good work in the future too.

Soundmodding is pretty useless at this point. I think the audio configs will change a lot with the next few uptates and i would have no patience to rework a huge soundmod with every arma update. I was thinking of working a soundmod very often... But yeah, like i said not at this point.

[megagoth1702 252]

Finally it's there guys...

The mother danging OPREP on AUDIO!

http://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-audio-roadmap-update

[danil-ch 165]

Nice list. Too bad they didn't mention this two sound regressions. Still waiting... :)

Sound of falling bodies is missing

No turret motor sounds

[x3kj 1247]

The mother danging OPREP on AUDIO!

http://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-audio-roadmap-update

Review and Overview are the exact same text :D

Apart from that it sounds (haha) very good.

No turret motor sounds

There already is turret motor sound for the Strider for example (or was at least in dev branch last time i checked). Propably just config values that need to be added for the rest

Edited June 3, 2015 by Fennek

[vegeta897 13]

Finally it's there guys...

The mother danging OPREP on AUDIO!

http://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-audio-roadmap-update

Reading that was super exciting. It's great to see BI so ambitious about improving their game post-release.

Also grats on the shout out.

[megagoth1702 252]

Samples being chosen randomly is good, but not good enough when you hear the same sample twice. The algorithm should always pick ANOTHER sample but not the same one. So like this - A B C B C B A B A C A C B A C B, not like this A B B C B A A B C B B B C C B.

This is how it is in dev branch and stable branch at the moment.

[nikiforos 450]

I already stopped using sound mods but of course there is still much work to be done :)

[St. Jimmy 272]

BIS you really need to look in your samples and test them with some headsets. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=24304

That's loudest freakin disortiong that I've ever heard! I know headsets are not the best etc. and that's why I've currently good headphones but I tested it because of that report. No issue with some speakers and headphones but for example with Logitech G930 it sounds like a missile is launching in your ears (and I really mean that). You need to somehow repro this stuff and see what's causing it because many people are using that type of headsets. it's likely related to this stuff http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21268

[bullhorn 18]

There's some things they can't/shouldn't reproduce, like SW 7.1 simulation on crappy headsets. I'm sure they're using studio headphones like AKG K240 or Sony MDR7506 (or better) which are designed for mixing/mastering. If it sounds bad on your system, well, that's a problem with your system, contact the manufacturer.

-EDIT: Actually, I haven't tested 1.46 audio yet so I can't confirm/deny if this is a real issue. Feel free to ignore me entirely.

Edited June 3, 2015 by BullHorn

[kklownboy 43]

well most "crappy" headsets have a eq prog.... But using Monitor class head phones are the only way they should test the sounds.

[froggyluv 2136]

Personally totally jacked that BI decided to tackle this with gusto and even better it was a true case of Dev/Modder symbiotic win -just like Smookie o.O

Nice job Mega and BIDevs.

[St. Jimmy 272]

There's some things they can't/shouldn't reproduce, like SW 7.1 simulation on crappy headsets. I'm sure they're using studio headphones like AKG K240 or Sony MDR7506 (or better) which are designed for mixing/mastering. If it sounds bad on your system, well, that's a problem with your system, contact the manufacturer.

well most "crappy" headsets have a eq prog.... But using Monitor class head phones are the only way they should test the sounds.

Yeah but it's still weird that only Huron and T-100 (and maybe other tanks also now, I didn't test that much) have those issues and other things are fine. It would be nice to hear some explanation for that other than that the hardware is crappy :D

It's not really an issue for me anymore because I'm using other headphones nowadays but according to that Huron report, it can be a pretty wide issue in many surround headset hard/software. So I try to at least care that it can be pretty bad issue for some people. I wouldn't ever board a tank anymore in Arma 3 if that disortion happened everytime.

[KeyCat 131]

Great OPREP!

For our simulation, a simplified calculation is considered sufficient because of common bullet speed; since there should be a SC even when bullet does not pass the listener, we simulate this by creating a SC on the impact position

This is probably the explanation for the "tick tick" sounds that sounds like bullets are impacting all around you even if no one are able to hit you, i.e moving behind a ridge for example.

As I said in previous posts this "feature" is very confusing (and I'm not alone on this one) so I rather be without sonic cracks when bullets does not pass the listener - all IMO of course.

/KC

[jumpinghubert 49]

The Oprep sounds very ambitious! :) For me this is the ultimate distance sound reference

[zeep 3]

Thanks for the update devs.

Though i'm sad there's nothing about 3daudio mentioned.

3DAudio (on a stereo setup) is something that -i believe- arma's audiio engine simply cannot do, is that correct?

To emphasize, i'm not talking about 4.1 / 5.1. Purely 3DAudio on 2 speakers.

Simply put, the audio driver/engine determines what sound source is where related to your head in-game and then processes the playback of game sounds to make it sound like it's really behind, above, below, in front of you etc..

Ofcourse this helps tremendously locating anything by sound. Most games have this.

Also known as HRTF.

Very simple example:

[roshnak 41]

Most games have this.

As far as I am aware, most (new) games do not have this.

Edited June 4, 2015 by roshnak

[doveman 7]

Virtual surround is generally done at the driver level (Dolby, Realtek) or by third-party apps (Razer surround) now, so games just have to output 5.1 and the HRTF processing is done externally.

[roshnak 41]

Virtual surround is generally done at the driver level (Dolby, Realtek) or by third-party apps (Razer surround) now, so games just have to output 5.1 and the HRTF processing is done externally.

Except that's not true 3D audio. You're getting, at best, an emulation of 7.1 audio and interpolation between those points on a horizontal plane. Properly done, we could have accurate positional audio in horizontal and vertical space.

Virtual surround is better than nothing, but it's not taking full advantage of what can be done. I want to be able to tell that someone is at my 8 o'clock and above me, not just that they are at my 8 o'clock.

Edited June 5, 2015 by roshnak

[doveman 7]

Except that's not true 3D audio. You're getting, at best, an emulation of 7.1 audio and interpolation between those points on a horizontal plane. Properly done, we could have accurate positional audio in horizontal and vertical space.

Virtual surround is better than nothing, but it's not taking full advantage of what can be done. I want to be able to tell that someone is at my 8 o'clock and above me, not just that they are at my 8 o'clock.

I don't find virtual surround very good myself but I suspect that's due to my Auditory Processing Disorder, as other people find Razer to be great.

Whether current virtual surround implementations are as good as 3D audio is surely just a matter of the processing done however. All that 3D audio can do is take the 5.1/7.1 signal from the game and process it in one way so as to try and make it sound like sounds are placed in a 3D space on a stereo headset and that could just as easily be done by a driver or external app I would have thought.

[roshnak 41]

I don't find virtual surround very good myself but I suspect that's due to my Auditory Processing Disorder, as other people find Razer to be great.

Whether current virtual surround implementations are as good as 3D audio is surely just a matter of the processing done however. All that 3D audio can do is take the 5.1/7.1 signal from the game and process it in one way so as to try and make it sound like sounds are placed in a 3D space on a stereo headset and that could just as easily be done by a driver or external app I would have thought.

Actually, true 3D audio is not just taking the 5.1 or 7.1 signal and processing it for headphones. That was my whole point. It operates on the same principles (HRTFs), but true 3D audio positions audio anywhere in 3D space, behind, in front, above, below, and anywhere in between. There's a whole bunch of stuff on the internet about this if you google HRTFs.

Here's a decent article that talks about HRTFs in games and specifically addresses the differences between full 3D audio and virtual surround.

With a little work, you can experience 3D audio in any game that uses OpenAL.

These guys have some demos you can try out. So do these guys.

As for your problems with Razer Surround, it could just be that their HRTF model isn't suited for the shape of your head and ears (it doesn't work very well for me, either, whereas the second RealSpace demo works great). I'm no expert, but as I understand it, if you don't have any trouble locating where sounds are coming from in real life, you shouldn't have a problem doing it with properly configured HRTFs (I could be totally wrong about this). This stuff is pretty interesting. With samples configured for differently shaped ears, things that are supposed to sound like they are orbiting your head in a horizontal plane can sound like they are suddenly rising above your head or dipping under it at certain points or there can be little discernible effect at all.

Edited June 5, 2015 by roshnak

[Bucic 1]

As always with the subject of 3D audio uneducated claims obscure the discussion within first few minutes. The easiest way to avoid saying gibberish is to not even mention any surround implementations, period.

The fact that some surroundimplementation uses HRTF does not make it true 3D audio. True 3D audio uses information on exact sound sources location in the game acquired from the game engine. Any implementation not using the information is just a gimmick, standard Surround sound being the worst of them all.

[Brisse 78]

So many people think surround and 3D-sound is the same thing. Wrong.

Count the dimensions for yourself.

Surround can recreate "left-right" and "front-back" dimensions. That's only 2 dimensions. We are missing "up-down".

Stereo is not 2 dimensions as some might think. It's only 1 dimension.

[doveman 7]

So many people think surround and 3D-sound is the same thing. Wrong.

Count the dimensions for yourself.

Surround can recreate "left-right" and "front-back" dimensions. That's only 2 dimensions. We are missing "up-down".

Stereo is not 2 dimensions as some might think. It's only 1 dimension.

Well Dolby Atmos is meant to place sounds in the vertical space, so if that was used in games instead of 7.1 then perhaps a virtual surround implementation would be able to take that information to create 3D sound.

I'm not sure how important the vertical spacing is though, surely what's most important is being able to tell the exact direction from which someone's shooting at you or a vehicle is approaching? With 5.1/7.1 speakers I get this information, just not with virtual surround on headphones.

[Brisse 78]

Dolby Atmos is going to be used in Star Wars Battlefront, but I'm not sure if we are going to be able to use it to create a stereo headphone mix or if it's only possible to use with compatible home cinema systems. I hope it gets a downmix-to-stereo-headphone's feature, that would be cool, and could mean three dimensions and not just two.

Battlefield series is actually one of few game(s) that have built in HRTF. Since Battlefield Bad Company, there's a headphone option that includes HRTF filtering. Works quite well actually. Don't know if it's 2D or 3D though.

Edit: Another game I have played which actually includes HRTF is Codemaster's DIRT series. They are using the Rapture3D audio engine which is capable of 3D sound on stereo headphones using HRTF. Other than that, I don't know many games which use HRTF in the game engine. For most games I use Dolby Headphone to downmix 8 channel surround. That means 2 dimensions, and works quite well (but it's not 3D as some seem to think) in my opinion.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Brisse

[St. Jimmy 272]

RCWS HMG 12.7mm got some unbalanced audio sometimes. I guess it's not about the samples because they're most of the time balanced so can't repro all the time. It feels like the other sample gets some volume increase sometimes.

When that happens it's like 3 rounds Bam Bam Bam and then three rounds BAM BAM BAM and that loops for some time but it can stop so it's not easy to repro. I don't have any loudness equalization on so it's something in the engine sometimes I guess. Tested with Stereo Headphones.

You can hear it in this video and after I take that small break @10s everything gets balanced: