General Discussion (dev branch)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Tweaked: The autocannon fire mode of the AH-99 Blackfoot and the Mi-48 Kajman helicopters was changed to 5-round bursts

Can we not? Can we not automate absolutely everything and take player skill out of the game? I mean it's not that big of a deal but afaik the gunships in real life might have an option to switch between modes or RPM but PLEASE stop making everything forces burst mode, it's absolutely annoying. Maybe for AI, fine but revert it back for players.

[Alwarren 2767]

Can we not? Can we not automate absolutely everything and take player skill out of the game? I mean it's not that big of a deal but afaik the gunships in real life might have an option to switch between modes or RPM but PLEASE stop making everything forces burst mode, it's absolutely annoying. Maybe for AI, fine but revert it back for players.

To the best of my knowledge, most gunship autocannons fire burst. For the Apache I think it is 20 rounds per trigger pull.

Send from my tablet, so pardon any autocorrect bollocks

[bars91 956]

To the best of my knowledge, most gunship autocannons fire burst. For the Apache I think it is 20 rounds per trigger pull.

 

You are correct. So are BIS for leaning towards at least some form of semi-realism.

[Vasily.B 529]

Rate of fire in M230 (apache cannon) is 625 +/- 25 rpm so it have 2 fire modes. Yes player need slowe fire rate, Ai is wasting ammo enough, let player save some.

[2legsakimbo 1]

really like the improvements so far.

 

but also the control experience needs a good looking at.

 

but there are 4 things needed. Maybe not so big but they'd make a hell of a difference imo.

 

1. ability to interrupt a sequence. like reloading or more importantly self healing. This is an old one but it really is crazy when you are trying to heal and get surprised and have to wait for the heal to end before moving. Simply making it cancel and losing that med pack as a consequence would be better than being trapped in an animation.

 

2. ability to poke out from cover and back again. would be useufl in providing a greater sense of control and of not being all thumbs. Linked very closely to the below point 3.

 

3. remove the input lag. There seems to be a delay on every movement. which makes navigating very difficult. Especially close to things like walls and sandbags. This gets me killed so often. again, it gets in the way of sensation of being in control.

 

4. Reactions to be hit and wounded. Right now there's a very big disconnect between what it should do and the effects and it impacts (no irony intended) heavily on the sense of the weapons actually doing damage. Both to player and AI.  AI being able to 180' scope and kill me is extreme and happens. But its also being shot oneself with very little noticeable effect. Not a sound or anything. The jerky getting hit animations are not good.

 

all these things tend to add a wedge between the game and the player. Result is that things seems a little off, mistimed and disjointed.

[oukej 2911]

Can we not? Can we not automate absolutely everything and take player skill out of the game?

I don't think the bursts necessarily take away the skill :) You only are no longer able to snipe targets with just one round.

The change has three aspects - realism, feeling (insert random youtube Apache gun fire footage) and also a technical aspect, where bursts will allow us to utilize a different sound solution that makes the high RoF weapons sound better.

[Vasily.B 529]

I don't think the bursts necessarily take away the skill :) You only are no longer able to snipe targets with just one round.

The change has three aspects - realism, feeling (insert random youtube Apache gun fire footage) and also a technical aspect, where bursts will allow us to utilize a different sound solution that makes the high RoF weapons sound better.

Not necessary. With modern FCS in choppers/tanks/ships you can make sniper shot with 125 mm or 30mm without problem.

[das attorney 858]

Can we not? Can we not automate absolutely everything

 

That's the reality of what the military (and private businesses) look to do.

 

I talked to a US EOD guy once, and he said the military had spent over $1,000,000 training him alone for the work he needed to do.  He also talked about mechanisation of his job and how in the future, robots will do it all so there's no need to spend lots of money (and also no risk of sending home a dead EOD guy when things go wrong, with all the bad press that goes with it).

 

It's just a logical progression - cheaper and safer.  TBH I was surprised Arma 3 wasn't just a bunch of robots fighting another bunch of robots given it's set in 2035.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I don't think the bursts necessarily take away the skill :) You only are no longer able to snipe targets with just one round.

The change has three aspects - realism, feeling (insert random youtube Apache gun fire footage) and also a technical aspect, where bursts will allow us to utilize a different sound solution that makes the high RoF weapons sound better.

 

 

That's the reality of what the military (and private businesses) look to do.

 

I talked to a US EOD guy once, and he said the military had spent over $1,000,000 training him alone for the work he needed to do.  He also talked about mechanisation of his job and how in the future, robots will do it all so there's no need to spend lots of money (and also no risk of sending home a dead EOD guy when things go wrong, with all the bad press that goes with it).

 

It's just a logical progression - cheaper and safer.  TBH I was surprised Arma 3 wasn't just a bunch of robots fighting another bunch of robots given it's set in 2035.

*sigh*, i guess. But I've seen footage of an Apache fighting the Taliban with good degree of bursts and full auto fire. So i guess it isn't necessary to have the ability to fire one round at a time. As long as fully automatic fire is till possible, then i have no issues.

[das attorney 858]

*sigh*, i guess. But I've seen footage of an Apache fighting the Taliban with good degree of bursts and full auto fire. So i guess it isn't necessary to have the ability to fire one round at a time. As long as fully automatic fire is till possible, then i have no issues.

 

 

I get where you're coming from, but if they can make better sounds (lets face it, the current ones are bad sounding, and also most likely have a bad MP performance), then I totally don't mind burst.

 

As long as you can keep clicking the button to fire consecutive bursts, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem  :)

[oukej 2911]

You can still hold the button down and it will keep raining down all the fire you desire. Just the amount of bullets will always be in multiples of the burst length. In this case five rounds. That is also the minimum that can be fired by a single trigger pull.

[Baconeo 47]

Would it be possible to get a similar search box in Zeus as there is in the Eden 3D Editor? Many a time have I wanted to find something and had to sift through lots of tabs just to find what I wanted when a simple search box would make it quicker.

[Guest]

Would it be possible to get a similar search box in Zeus as there is in the Eden 3D Editor? Many a time have I wanted to find something and had to sift through lots of tabs just to find what I wanted when a simple search box would make it quicker.

AFAIR, it's planned but for now they working more on 3Den that Zeus.

[somesangheili 111]

• Fixed: Characters were forced to the prone stance when running / sprinting unarmed and turning around

That's fixed but there is another movement bug: transitioning to crouch while rifle-raised and standing idle will make you step forward a tad before you crouch

 

EDIT: actually the previous bug (forced prone while unarmed transitioning) isn't entirely fixed, I saw it happen to some AI, and it also happened to me. I guess it's just harder to reproduce now.

 

EDIT: and going prone while unarmed jogging or sprinting will make you strafe left a little bit.

[Alwarren 2767]

That's the reality of what the military (and private businesses) look to do.

I talked to a US EOD guy once, and he said the military had spent over $1,000,000 training him alone for the work he needed to do. He also talked about mechanisation of his job and how in the future, robots will do it all so there's no need to spend lots of money (and also no risk of sending home a dead EOD guy when things go wrong, with all the bad press that goes with it).

It's just a logical progression - cheaper and safer. TBH I was surprised Arma 3 wasn't just a bunch of robots fighting another bunch of robots given it's set in 2035.

Which is exactly why I HOPE that if there will be an Arma 4, it will go back at least to early 2000 or even better 1985. Future warfare is more and more eliminating humans, which is certainly good but from a gaming POV the Cold War makes for MUCH more interesting gameplay. You know, without thermal scopes, self homing projectiles etc.

It just makes it so much more exciting.

Send from my tablet, so pardon any autocorrect bollocks

[ineptaphid 6413]

You can still hold the button down and it will keep raining down all the fire you desire. Just the amount of bullets will always be in multiples of the burst length. In this case five rounds. That is also the minimum that can be fired by a single trigger pull.

I am really glad you have added burst fire-I prefer it and actually think it requires more skill-not less. Regarding Apaches etc, they cannot be fired fully auto, but can be switched between bursts of 10,20,50 or even 100 round bursts. This does cause the gun to get quite warm...

[road runner 4344]

Not necessary. With modern FCS in choppers/tanks/ships you can make sniper shot with 125 mm or 30mm without problem.

The countless Gun Cams from the wars in Iraq, and Syria, from AH64's AH64D's, MI 24's Mi35's, Mi28's and Ka50's would refute that statement. 

 

Back in my day, it was easy to single tap with a GPMG to drop a target at 400-600M, but that's not what it's designed for, and not when it's at its most effective, when firing a burst of 5-10 rounds, the barrel oscillates ever so slightly to create a wider impact area called the Beaten Zone, which in effects creates a much larger area in which to inflict casualties, as opposes to a single round all the time.

Using HE 30MM rounds in 3-5 rounds burst, that don't all land in the same spot creates pretty much a similar effect, and is far more effective and demoralizing on the enemy, and also creates a larger area of damage.  

[R3vo 2654]

For all the folks here discussing the heli gun change:

 

One can still fire full-auto, one click however, fires 5 shots now.

 

Really like the change!

[das attorney 858]

Which is exactly why I HOPE that if there will be an Arma 4, it will go back at least to early 2000 or even better 1985. Future warfare is more and more eliminating humans, which is certainly good but from a gaming POV the Cold War makes for MUCH more interesting gameplay. You know, without thermal scopes, self homing projectiles etc.

It just makes it so much more exciting.

Send from my tablet, so pardon any autocorrect bollocks

 

Yes!

 

I remember everyone asking for thermal vision and high-tech stuff back in Arma 2; and now that we've got lots of it in game, it really isn't that exciting and is OP as far as gameplay goes.  Agreed that going back to a low-tech age would be much more fun.

[Vasily.B 529]

The countless Gun Cams from the wars in Iraq, and Syria, from AH64's AH64D's, MI 24's Mi35's, Mi28's and Ka50's would refute that statement. 

 

Back in my day, it was easy to single tap with a GPMG to drop a target at 400-600M, but that's not what it's designed for, and not when it's at its most effective, when firing a burst of 5-10 rounds, the barrel oscillates ever so slightly to create a wider impact area called the Beaten Zone, which in effects creates a much larger area in which to inflict casualties, as opposes to a single round all the time.

Using HE 30MM rounds in 3-5 rounds burst, that don't all land in the same spot creates pretty much a similar effect, and is far more effective and demoralizing on the enemy, and also creates a larger area of damage.  

I get it, but look now in Arma. There is one guy (enemy) and you flies apache (or any other vehicle with autocannon) - AI gunner start to shoot, first bullet hit the guy, rest is wasting of ammo + very famous bug since first Arma and BMP-2 autocannon, which have limited ammo. Same was with most of Russians choppers where ammo reach 250 rounds, this will not let you to fire long bursts. There are diferent strategies to diferent factions, you cant apply this settings to "standardise" all of them.

[Vasily.B 529]

Yes!

 

I remember everyone asking for thermal vision and high-tech stuff back in Arma 2; and now that we've got lots of it in game, it really isn't that exciting and is OP as far as gameplay goes.  Agreed that going back to a low-tech age would be much more fun.

Play RHS mod (but wait for the update first) - you will feel old Arma and OFP climat.

[Guest]

Blackfoot - shooting a burst immediately after a first one will make no sound.

 

steps to reproduce :

- place blackfoot and play as gunner

- shoot a burst (5 bullets)

- shoot another burst (5bullets) just after the first one end.

=> the second burst make no sound

it may require a lot of tests, the "windows of opportunity" is very short. The 2nd burst must be shot at the moment when a 6th bullets could leave the barrel.

 

 

--EDIT : happens with Kajman too.

[Guest]

Suppressive fire order seems not to work when group leader is in a vehicle.

[oukej 2911]

Thank you for the reports!

Blackfoot - shooting a burst immediately after a first one will make no sound.

Our audio heroes already have a fix for it (aka soon in Dev), exposing more potential for the "looped" sounds.

Suppressive fire order seems not to work when group leader is in a vehicle.

True. It should work when you command other vehicles, but there's an issue when you command your own gunner.

[Cobus 0]

You're not the first one to report optimisation issues. These issues were already here on previous Arma games. BIS devs know it, and work on it, but they're not wizard. You will not see Arma 3 performances unlocked all at once, as by magic.

Salut,

thank you for responding, I do not expect it to be fixed anytime in the near future, I only wish for them to optimize the engine they use for the next game even if it is not instant. I look forward to their next games, and hope that they are able to further optimize ArmA 3.