Opinions on manual gun cocking?

[Daniel 0]

you can't intimidate players in videogames by wielding a gun.

That's a load of rubbish. Instant death and lack of, or very much delayed, respawn completely change the way players approach the game. That's veering off topic however.

Screw it, i'm all for more complex weapon mechanics in Arma 3. It's an infantry sim first and foremost. Weapons should very occasionally jam and players and bots alike should have to deal with it. There should be intuitive key commands for any and all tactically important mechanics.

[antoineflemming 14]

That's a load of rubbish. Instant death and lack of, or very much delayed, respawn completely change the way players approach the game. That's veering off topic however.

Screw it, i'm all for more complex weapon mechanics in Arma 3. It's an infantry sim first and foremost. Weapons should very occasionally jam and players and bots alike should have to deal with it. There should be intuitive key commands for any and all tactically important mechanics.

I thought America's Army did weapon jams quite well.

[dmarkwick 261]

On balance, I think I'd just prefer to assume my soldier avatar knows how to use the weapon, and I just control the soldier. Turning the game into micro-management of equipment seems the wrong direction, should be improving the tactical not the mechanical.

[dysta 10]

On balance, I think I'd just prefer to assume my soldier avatar knows how to use the weapon, and I just control the soldier. Turning the game into micro-management of equipment seems the wrong direction, should be improving the tactical not the mechanical.

Hey, that's something.

Since you've mention about "make avatar know how to use the weapon", how about adding the skill feature that would affect the performance of the soldier's microaction as well?

[4 IN 1 0]

Even that would be too much just for gaming sake

I do like to have the opinion to manually ride the bolt for manual rifle from the sniper side of thing though, given that if I have to break my aim when riding the bolt.

[iratus 71]

Having to do all the steps to manipulate your gun manually is interesting in that conceptional game, however it would be just a burden in ArmA and not add to the gameplay. Having to repeat a set of keystrokes everytime you reload gets old verry quick (and many people would just macro it, wich would render it useless). And: if you do this for handguns you would have to do it for every other weapon in the game too (including tank guns, mortars, heavy machine guns etc.) which would be much work for BIS, much to learn for players (ArmA already has a steep learning courve) but in my opinion would ot make the game more enjoyable.

Let's just assume the soldier we control knows about using his weapons and concentrate more on the interessting choices and decisions to be made in the tactical environment.

About manual cocking:

It depends on if there is a "tactical decision" about it to be made. For example in Far Cry 2 your bolt action sniper rifle gets cocked automatically after you go out of scope view, so you have to decide "do I look trough the scope for a few secounds more" or "do I cock as fast as possible". I'm okay with that (although I don't know how realistic that is, I can imagine people being able to cock a rifle while still looking trough the scope).

On the other hand, if you've got a pump action shotgun, why should someone wait to "pump" right after he fired the gun? There's no reason. So it would be best to just doubecklick after every shot fired, no decission would be needed. So the mechanic would become just a burden to the player and not really add to the gameplay.

[rye1 21]

Well with a bolt, as a sniper with no spotter you may want to hold off before chambering another round. Of course there are tactical pro's, but also many con's.

[Scoggs 1]

I say all of the above, but leave it as an option for those who do not wish to have it.

[UbiquitousUK 11]

I am in favour of manual cocking in all instances in which it is realistic i.e. also for assault rifles after a reload. If you are worried about this being too much for some players then you can make it a difficulty option that comes on by default at e.g. veteran level or above. I think I agree that it would work better if bound to the reload key rather than the fire button. I would go with long R to cock and short R to reload.

I would also like a safe firemode on the weapons.

[dsi24 12]

Receiver is awesome, but it is a gun sim, not a mil sim.

It'd be cool if we could do stuff the player is capable of doing in Receiver though, fast reloads, distributing ammo into mags, etc, but every aspect of it doesn't need to be directly controlled, just called. Maybe a fast tap of R would be a fast reload, while a longer hold would save the old magazine for later. With the new gear UI showing approximations of ammo in each mag you could add a right click unload/load feature to magazines (the action takes a certain amount of time depending on the amount of munitions being handled). The character already knows how to do these things, the player just needs to (be able to) call up the action.

[mr.g-c 6]

So, since roughly 60% of the community is for that feature, is there an official ArmA3 CIT Ticket made about it?

[Blaze2132 10]

Honestly I don't think it will make a difference. Manual or automatic: either way I can't imagine any major effects on gameplay. It doesn't contribute nor detract from the game or from the overall experience. After all, it's just the difference between having to click or not click.

It really just becomes a matter of personal liking. Some people will most likely enable it for immersion into the game, and some people will simply find it annoying. As long as the feature is optional, I think everyone will be happy. However, I think the real question to be asking is: 'Is this feature even worth my time as a dev? Should I pursue this instead of other features, should I just prioritize this as a sort of secondary goal, or should I totally discard the idea?'

Personal Opinion: I think it would just become an unnecessary gimmick that I would learn to deal with whether I appreciated it or not. I care about the gameplay and not the gimmicky little controls that accompany it, and since this shouldn't really affect gameplay it won't matter to me either way.

[NoRailgunner 0]

If its end up beeing just a annoying/cumbersome feature that has little or no effect on A3/2035 weapons - make it optional. Don't waste time on gimmicky stuff if there are other things waiting to be done and need to work flawlessly from the get-go.

[heroes maker 10]

guys, seriously, if you want a super-awesome realist reloading there's a game for this, it's called "Receiver", okay you only have a 1911 for now, but the reload is entirely manual ( you have to remove the magazine yourself and everything else ).

so, i choose manual reload only for bolt and shotgun because this is the only thing i need.

[Panda_pl 0]

Receiver has already been mentioned and there are some things worth pointing out:

1) you should not be able to engage safety on 1911 when hammer is down.

2) there is no half-cock

3) you should not be able to work the slide when safety is engaged

4) you should not be able to release the 1911 slide by pulling on it ®

Other than that it is a good game.

After a few days of playing I found out the whole system, although cool, does not add to gameplay. I just press e-~-zzzzz-~-z to top off the current mag or ee-2-z-t for tactical...

However topping off the magazine is faster and more foul-proof than reloading properly... There is also a problem with key binds since standard keyboard will not let you do a reload while moving because of limits on simultaneous key presses.

In the end I have developed muscle memory just like IRL and just do few key strokes instead of conveniently pressing R to watch my guy do it himself. Which is main reason why I think it makes no difference at all. It is a mini-game within the game and you will get good at it so fast it will loose coolness factor. Sure there were funny moments where I dropped magazine in stress instead of putting it into the gun but that was the learning phase. I guess it just serves to silence the kids who think 3 seconds is too slow and they could reload a magazine in one second IRL.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Panda_pl
grammerr

[On_Sabbatical 11]

The big question is:what is it going to add to the game ?

[Snowden 1]

The reason I liked the manual bolting in red orchestra 2 was the ability to fire a bullet then stab with the bayonet without having to wait for the automatic bolting animation to finish. It saved my life more than a few times in close quarters encounters. Since I see no intent to add bayonets to ARMA, I don't think they should add it if it will have no effect on game play (since there is no melee combat).

[onlyrazor 11]

The reason I liked the manual bolting in red orchestra 2 was the ability to fire a bullet then stab with the bayonet without having to wait for the automatic bolting animation to finish. It saved my life more than a few times in close quarters encounters. Since I see no intent to add bayonets to ARMA, I don't think they should add it if it will have no effect on game play (since there is no melee combat).

It also allows you to stay on target and check if you hit anything. Pretty nifty when sniping.

[Echo38 1]

As OnlyRazor noted, it does add gameplay elements, but even if it didn't, it should be included for the simple reason of realism and immersion. The Arma series is marketed as "the most realistic infantry simulation," and for it to have unrealistic chambering & cocking mechanics (as it has so far) belies that claim. Now, making the chamber mechanics realistic wouldn't harm gameplay, so there's no decent reason to not do it.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I voted for the second.

Sniper and shotgun cocking should be done automatically while you reload a weapon but other times manually. You can watch accurately through the sights after a shot when not cocking and there should be some kind of swing or taking eyes out of the sight when cocking a sniper.

[MrR4PT0R 1]

IMO it should be added for realism but it should be optional and if in use you could empy your weapon or mag?

[igneous01 19]

I liked the manual cocking in RO2, so I vote yes for 3rd option. But imo for weapon handling there should be an action to examine your weapon (in case it jams, double feed, etc) with nice animations. But I consider that icing on the cake.

[EricM 0]

but even if it didn't, it should be included for the simple reason of realism and immersion

Arma is not a bolt simulator, it's a sandbox game. What counts is the freedom and bigger picture.

Anything that your character/avatar would do automatically should be done automatically, unless shown that it can really change gameplay.

What's next ? Manual insert keys and double tap to release parking break to start a car ? Remove grenade pins ? Scroll wheel to focus on your goggles ?

[myshaak 0]

Arma is not a bolt simulator, it's a sandbox game. What counts is the freedom and bigger picture.

Anything that your character/avatar would do automatically should be done automatically, unless shown that it can really change gameplay.

What's next ? Manual insert keys and double tap to release parking break to start a car ? Remove grenade pins ? Scroll wheel to focus on your goggles ?

This +1

I don't understand the point either, especially when the whole mood for Arma 3 is streamlining controls.

[mr burns 132]

Arma is not a bolt simulator, it's a sandbox game. What counts is the freedom and bigger picture.

Anything that your character/avatar would do automatically should be done automatically, unless shown that it can really change gameplay.

What's next ? Manual insert keys and double tap to release parking break to start a car ? Remove grenade pins ? Scroll wheel to focus on your goggles ?

This +1

I don't understand the point either, especially when the whole mood for Arma 3 is streamlining controls.

So, whats the problem?

He said it should be optional - you won´t have to go with it, do you understand?

It wouldn´t be as silly if we were talking un-optional pink ponys instead of cars .... :rolleyes: