Development Blog & Reveals

[trent 14]

I don't really give a crap. You don't buy ArmA for the SP.

How presumptuous. You don't buy ArmA for the SP, plenty of other people do.

[das attorney 858]

Just make sure that it's over in the AI thread as well/at least!

Rgr! :)

[OstiasMoscas 10]

How presumptuous. You don't buy ArmA for the SP, plenty of other people do.

Please, speak for yourself.

Yeah, presumptuous, that's me. I made it pretty clear I was speaking for my self, voicing my own opinion.

I also wrote that "I can see why people are upset". I realize some people are fans of the SP and plays it. I'm one of them.

In fact, I basically haven't touched the MP of the neither the ArmA series nor the original OPF games (not even co-op).

However, sometimes games have their release dates pushed. And this is basically what's happening. Except, Bohemia have chosen to release the finished parts of the game. Meaning those who want to can enjoy every other aspect of the game, while waiting for the single-player campaign to be released. Would it be better/less upsetting if the delayed the whole thing? At least now you can still play the finished MP or create your own missions/skirmishes in the editor. You have access to the islands, all three factions, and every single weapon and vehicle.

As a huge bonus you also have access to one of the best and most creative online communities there are, and the awesome content it produces.

Although you won't have the official campaing there are still fun to be had in community created missions, or trying out different mods.

If you're limiting yourself to only playing the single-player campaign, you are missing out on what the game truly has to offer.

Edited August 3, 2013 by OstiasMoscas

[JSj 12]

Yeah, presumptuous, that's me. I made it pretty clear I was speaking for my self, voicing my opinion.

"You don't buy ArmA for the SP", that is "people don't buy Arma for SP" is a statement of fact, not an opinon. If it was just your opionion, you should have said: "I don't buy Arma for SP". A very basic thing that should not have to be pointed out, and it did indeed make you look very presumptuous to all of us who enjoy the SP aspect of Arma.

[Maxzy 12]

Remove the game. Just let it go. Vote with your feet.

And why?:

It's not your project. This game obviously is not for you. Fanaticism is not healthy.

There is and will be other games and other developers. BI doesn't need you.

You don't appreciate other peoples work.

You put the bars sooo high and say "jump". And they do jump.

But if they drop the bar even once, they are incompetent, lazy arrogant ¤&%¤%s, who only care about Easy Money not willing to even try to Please you.

You could do it, of course, it's so simple. You'd never try it yourself though, why should you. You're the Holy Customer.

Yes! Thank you!

[Poochie 10]

Yeah, presumptuous, that's me. I made it pretty clear I was speaking for my self, voicing my own opinion.

I also wrote that "I can see why people are upset". I realize some people are fans of the SP and plays it. I'm one of them.

In fact, I basically haven't touched the MP of the neither the ArmA series nor the original OPF games (not even co-op).

However, sometimes games have their release dates pushed. And this is basically what's happening. Except, Bohemia have chosen to release the finished parts of the game. Meaning those who want to can enjoy every other aspect of the game, while waiting for the single-player campaign to be released. Would it be better/less upsetting if the delayed the whole thing? At least now you can still play the finished MP or create your own missions/skirmishes in the editor. You have access to the islands, all three factions, and every single weapon and vehicle.

As a huge bonus you also have access to one of the best and most creative online communities there are, and the awesome content it produces.

Although you won't have the official campaing there are still fun to be had in community created missions, or trying out different mods.

If you're limiting yourself to only playing the single-player campaign, you are missing out on what the game truly has to offer.

But according to DnA the release date isn't being pushed, the full game is being "released" as half-finished with the campaign being delivered at a later date. If they declare this a full delay and extend the beta by giving us a significant content update such as Altis then I can understand. But the course that BI is appearing to take is a scummy one. Then again, I don't know because we found this out through a third party source. Why isn't there a new spotrep up explaining the situation already?

And to your second point, I do play MP and enjoy MP but it's the precedent it sets. BI is effectively telling the community to do their work for them.

[chortles 263]

... because a dev blog on the issue is supposed to be coming next week and SPOTREPs tend to be specifically for stable patches? Somehow I don't see "SPOTREP Special just for this".

[dale0404 5]

Why isn't there a new spotrep up explaining the situation already?

Because it is the weekend and they also have lives to attend to, you know family and stuff.

[Alwarren 2766]

Somehow I don't see "SPOTREP Special just for this".

Considering this has been discussed pretty heatedly for about 32 pages now, "just for this" might be a whee bit of an understatement.

[chortles 263]

A lot of that seems to have had damn near nothing to do with the campaign directly and more general complaints about BI and Arma 3 development, which admittedly diminishes my give-a-damn.

[OstiasMoscas 10]

"You don't buy ArmA for the SP", that is "people don't buy Arma for SP" is a statement of fact, not an opinon. If it was just your opionion, you should have said: "I don't buy Arma for SP". A very basic thing that should not have to be pointed out, and it did indeed make you look very presumptuous to all of us who enjoy the SP aspect of Arma.

In my opinion no one should buy ArmA for SP alone.

How was that hard to read from what I wrote? Reading comprehension is part about being able to understand what's written, from a certain context.

Considering the context it was written in, it shouldn't really be necessary with a whole lot of deciphering to arrive at what's written above.

Especially when after having written "You don't buy ArmA for the SP", continue to write that I can understand why people are upset.

[Varanon 892]

Yeah, presumptuous, that's me. I made it pretty clear I was speaking for my self, voicing my own opinion.

No, you did not make it clear. You said "You don't buy for the SP". That's general.

However, sometimes games have their release dates pushed. And this is basically what's happening. Except, Bohemia have chosen to release the finished parts of the game. Meaning those who want to can enjoy every other aspect of the game, while waiting for the single-player campaign to be released. Would it be better/less upsetting if the delayed the whole thing? At least now you can still play the finished MP or create your own missions/skirmishes in the editor. You have access to the islands, all three factions, and every single weapon and vehicle.

What finished MP ? Defend Camino ? Escape Stratis ? Give me a break. There's no SP content in the final (except the showcases), and no word of additional MP content.

Create your own ?

Let me ask you a simple question: You go to a restaurant and order a meal. You pay in advance, because, what the heck, you know it's going to be good. Then you get the soup and are informed that the rest of the meal will be delivered a few days later.

Are you upset ? I am pretty sure you are. You will ask the restaurant owner if he's got a screw loose. But you are perfectly willing to accept that from a software company ?

The point is, it's not the community's "job" to deliver content. The platform and some content are to be delivered by the developer, as was made clear from the start, you know, when I paid 75 Euro (more than I have ever paid for any game ever).

As a huge bonus you also have access to one of the best and most creative online communities there are, and the awesome content it produces.

Although you won't have the official campaing there are still fun to be had in community created missions, or trying out different mods.

That's a bonus, and should NEVER be taken for granted. As a mission maker, I'm not really thrilled that it is expected of me to provide content when the developer can't deliver it (and I'm sure a lot of mission makers will think similar). As I said before, and gladly re-iterate, it's OK to say that there will be community content, but to RELY on that, and actively pushing fixing problems/providing to the community content creator is something totally different.

If you're limiting yourself to only playing the single-player campaign, you are missing out on what the game truly has to offer.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. You are completely missing the point. You basically say "Limiting yourself to italian cooking makes you miss out asian cooking". If you want to play single player, you want to play single player. Maybe you lack the time, or the skills, or the ideas to create your own content. Maybe you just want to play Arma, and don't give a hoot about MP ?

What you are doing is finding excuses, nothing else. Excuses for something demanding an explanation, not excuses.

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

In my opinion no one should buy ArmA for SP alone.

How was that hard to read from what I wrote?

Simple: You didn't write it..

[JSj 12]

In my opinion no one should buy ArmA for SP alone.

How was that hard to read from what I wrote?

Maybe because that's not what you wrote? :j:

[mmaruda 20]

@metalcraze - all the OA fixes are merged in the A3 ...

if you claim there are AI regressions and these fixes aren't working,

what about post the URL to Arma 3 FeedbackTracker ticket into AI thread

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-Development-Branch-AI-Discussion

sorry but complaining w/o reports or proofs is not going to change anything

How much proof do you need? This has been reported countless times, there is a video a few pages back in this thread (which implies you do not follow the discussion here). Currently the AI is near blind at close range and cannot see you or properly react to you presence unless you are directly in front of them (like they have a fov of 10 or something). There have been significant improvements to the AI since Arma 2, but some new stuff got broken and is seriously affecting gameplay.

[OstiasMoscas 10]

But according to DnA the release date isn't being pushed, the full game is being "released" as half-finished with the campaign being delivered at a later date.

Which is exactly what I'm addressing in my post, cf. "basically what's happening".

By releasing most of the game content on the original release date, but pushing the release of the single-player campaign, fans of the series are still able to enjoy the game. If the only alternative would be to delay the release of the game as a whole, I think most would agree that to be worse.

If they declare this a full delay and extend the beta by giving us a significant content update such as Altis then I can understand. But the course that BI is appearing to take is a scummy one. Then again, I don't know because we found this out through a third party source. Why isn't there a new spotrep up explaining the situation already?

Whether they call it an extended beta, or finished game without the single-player campaign doen't really matter all that much.

In reality it's pretty much the same exact thing. However, they should undoubtedly make their customers aware of the fact that certain aspects of the game will be released on a later date. Without us having to relying on getting our info from a third party.

That being said, you still get the exact same content that you have paid for, you only get it at a later date - akin to a game having it's release date pushed.

If I remember correctly, they did mention that they would explain the situation to the community properly in the next spotrep.

And to your second point, I do play MP and enjoy MP but it's the precedent it sets. BI is effectively telling the community to do their work for them.

I disagree that they are setting a precedent with this release. They have seen how the community has reacted, and if they do something similar in the future, they'll hopefully have learned from their mistake and give us a proper explanation, first hand. I doubt they'd willingly get themselves in the same situation again, considering the amount of negative response this have gotten from the community. As for BI telling the community to do their work for them, community created content will always be a part of ArmA games, whether game content is released on the planned date or not.

[strangere 2]

How much proof do you need? This has been reported countless times, there is a video a few pages back in this thread (which implies you do not follow the discussion here). Currently the AI is near blind at close range and cannot see you or properly react to you presence unless you are directly in front of them (like they have a fov of 10 or something). There have been significant improvements to the AI since Arma 2, but some new stuff got broken and is seriously affecting gameplay.

This is been discussed in Development Branch AI Discussion whit RoyaltyinExile.

[OstiasMoscas 10]

Maybe because that's not what you wrote?

Deriving an understanding from a certain context is unheard of, right?

[OMAC 254]

Please, speak for yourself. There ARE people buying Arma for SP. I play SP, and when playing MP, I play Coop. Some people find Coop boring. Some people don't play MP at all.

A BIG word up on this. Varanon is RIGHT ON, and I feel/play the same way. Without solid SP, I'm out 100%.

It isn't a huge deal for the community if the campaign is delayed, merely a disappointment. However, it doesn't make BIS look good; it shows poor planning and management. It makes people (read: reviewers) wonder if BIS knows what they are doing. Some reviewers and non-Arma players out there have perhaps already been wondering why BIS would air all their dirty laundry by releasing a paid alpha and beta. Doesn't the BIS QA/QC department (if any :rolleyes:) have the resources to test content? Or perhaps it's not their fault at all; maybe there are so few experienced coders that the content is being developed too slowly? Whatever the case, releasing an unfinished game doesn't look good, and cannot possibly have a positive effect on sales.

Having Ivan Buchta (and other top devs) work on kiddy DayZ rather than the flagship A3 is a HUGE slap in the face to the Arma community.

Edited August 3, 2013 by OMAC

[froggyluv 2130]

Let me ask you a simple question: You go to a restaurant and order a meal. You pay in advance, because, what the heck, you know it's going to be good. Then you get the soup and are informed that the rest of the meal will be delivered a few days later.

Are you upset ? I am pretty sure you are. You will ask the restaurant owner if he's got a screw loose. But you are perfectly willing to accept that from a software company ?

..

Yes I would I would think the owner was a bit off but software development expectation is bit different than going in and expecting a meal. A more paralleled example would be a new restaurant opening in which you have had good experiences with the owners and have now bought a pre-paid ticket to their Grand Opening. Along the way you are treated to drinks and appetizers daily but find out their will be no entrees at the Grand Opening BUT you will get that entrée at some some point. Not a bad deal for the person getting free drinks/appetizers every day waiting for the buildup -but madness from a business perspective in that having no entrees for the Grand opening will surely hurt their reputation.

Let the liquor floweth!

[Alo Keen 7]

I think that the discussion on delaying campaign release (and all the disappointment/understanding bickering) might warrant a separate thread, given the amount of posts.

[Sealife 22]

Some people don't play MP at all.

I resemble that opinion , I am very Dissapoint about Campaign but what can we do apart from maybe watch latest Dayz Blog and Dream of such dedication to a measurable aim ?

[foffy 58]

Absolutely disappointing news. I wish the community was informed sooner. I am one of the minority who absolutely loves the single player stuff BI does, but what in the world will the final game have now? Just the main island and some new units until whenever the campaign drops? What new player is going to be on board with that?

[nmdanny 22]

I don't understand why people are so upset over this, BIS is just delaying the SP, they're not cancelling it.

There isn't even a set release date, so you can consider the release of the game as extended beta, surely it's better than being stuck on Stratis for months.

[OstiasMoscas 10]

Let me ask you a simple question: You go to a restaurant and order a meal. You pay in advance, because, what the heck, you know it's going to be good. Then you get the soup and are informed that the rest of the meal will be delivered a few days later.

Are you upset ? I am pretty sure you are. You will ask the restaurant owner if he's got a screw loose. But you are perfectly willing to accept that from a software company?

I see your point, but that's a pretty horrible comparison, for obvious reasons.

Why should a game where you've paid for early access, be exempt from having content delayed?

I don't know whether you bought the game at the Alpha stage or at the Beta stage, but when you bought it you basically agreed to having the content delivered to you piece by piece over a certain period of time. The release date forms the basis for when you should have the complete contents of the game. However it is well known that release dates can be pushed. By buying in early we all run the risk of content being changed to a certain degree, or that content might get delayed.

Of course it sucks when a significant portion of your incentive to buy the game is delayed. But they way Bohemia are doing it, from what I understand, you'll at least get to enjoy all of the game content minus the single-player campaign. I think most people prefer that alternative to the whole game being delayed. Even if we don't get all the game content on the planned release date, it's still better to have some of it than none of it.

The point is, it's not the community's "job" to deliver content. The platform and some content are to be delivered by the developer, as was made clear from the start, you know, when I paid 75 Euro (more than I have ever paid for any game ever).

And Bohemia isn't saying it is the community's job to deliver the content. The content is coming.

A delay isn't something that's unheard of in the gaming world. How much you decided to pay for the game, is of no significance.

BIS can't be faulted for you choosing to buy the Supporter Edition (in which case you also got more than one game).

That's a bonus, and should NEVER be taken for granted. As a mission maker, I'm not really thrilled that it is expected of me to provide content when the developer can't deliver it (and I'm sure a lot of mission makers will think similar). As I said before, and gladly re-iterate, it's OK to say that there will be community content, but to RELY on that, and actively pushing fixing problems/providing to the community content creator is something totally different.

Agreed. But then again I think Bohemia are very thankful for the great community their games have created.

Again, I disagree that they're relying on community created content. It's not like a great heavy burden has been put on your shoulders.

If you decide to create content, then that's great. If not, then that's fine too. The official content is coming. Bohemia aren't demanding

that you go into overdrive to create fresh content for their game.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. You are completely missing the point. You basically say "Limiting yourself to italian cooking makes you miss out asian cooking". If you want to play single player, you want to play single player. Maybe you lack the time, or the skills, or the ideas to create your own content. Maybe you just want to play Arma, and don't give a hoot about MP ?

How on earth is "f you're limiting yourself to only playing the single-player campaign, you are missing out on what the game truly has to offer." a ridiculous statement? How is it not true? Of course you might not want to try the editor, or maybe you aren't a fan of MP. I still holds true that you are limiting yourself, and are missing out on a great deal of what the game can offer you. You don't really need and skills or a great imagination to create content for yourself on the basic level. Putting units on the map and creating a few waypoints will take you a couple of minutes at most.

There is plenty of content available (for those who want it) to tie you over, until the single-player campaign eventually is released.

[progamer 14]

Guys, wrong forum post for this discussion.