They better have female soldiers...

[maddogx 13]

This thread is balls. My conclusion is that there are 2 kinds of people in these forums: Feminists and Realists.

Awesome and logical argument right there, like always. This man deserves a medal!

On a more serious note, Big Dawg nailed it.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

This thread is balls. My conclusion is that there are 2 kinds of people in these forums: Feminists and Realists.

I'd say there are a handful of realists, and the rest are just stubborn old men.

[Beagle 684]

I'd say there are a handful of realists, and the rest are just stubborn old men.

I'm a stubborn old men and one of my friends is gay, but that does neither mean I'm gay too nor that all my friends are gay. One girl plaxying this or that does mean nothing. Keep in mind...Girls at Car- or computer exhibitions are usually paid to be there.

It' the same ratio like that two women you will fidamongs 100 men in the barracks canteen.

And yes, I had to server besindes women and they usually meant trouble and a big bag full of exceptions and excuses...!

[Kingsmurfy 10]

Anything which increases the scenery gets a thumbs up from me.

[dmarkwick 261]

I guess, in a very pragmatic way, what we'd like to see is not necessarily females as such, but different body types? A system of applying existing animations to different body types would solve everything :)

Then, a female body type would be handled the same as any other, male, fat, tall etc. The military generally employ people within a fairly narrow body type range so minor animation issues would possibly go unnoticed, or could be overlooked for immersion. Very minor stretching of textures for body types is what I'm thinking.

Obviously hardware such as weaponry would remain unaffected, but the animations for extreme body types might have some odd looking situations here & there. Short fat people wielding GPMGs for example. But then, it seems to me they do already sometimes.

So we should maybe say that a range of body types should be available, and ignore extreme body types not found (usually) within the military.

I'm making the assumption that female units can use the same uniform/equipments as male units. As such, no further animations would be necessary, but some work on applying existing animations to different ratio body types would.

[icebreakr 3159]

I recommend a new character for BIS: "She-male (AK47)". That would solve the problem.

[dmarkwick 261]

[lugiahua 26]

I don't care if there will be female soldiers or not, I just wish female characters have same functions as males, unlike Arma2 where they could only operated very limited vehicles or equipments.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'm making the assumption that female units can use the same uniform/equipments as male units. As such, no further animations would be necessary, but some work on applying existing animations to different ratio body types would.

Nah, I think different animations are a must. Women just move differently than men.

[jakerod 254]

In the spirit of ArmA, female characters should at least have combat animations so that they could potentially fight. If it's unrealistic that they're serving on the front lines then so be it (it's all up to mission design anyway), but there are certainly situations where women could be involved in combat, and to deny that for the sake of authenticity is against the spirit of ArmA IMO (especially since ArmA 3 takes place in a ficticious, future setting). To be honest, it makes as much sense as complaining about the NATO forces using F2000s and Comanches; it's all alternate reality, so different policies regarding female soldiers are perfectly plausible.

Now I realize it also means a lot of extra work for BIS (making a whole set of anims for females), so if they decide it's not worth the effort I'd be ok with it. Despite this, I'd still like to see the ability for female characters to fight in future ArmA games, and I don't understand why people are so opposed to it.

Well said. I also think that the fact that we may be fighting China in this war is relevant. Fighting a losing war against a nation with a billion people may change what females are allowed to do in the military.

[dmarkwick 261]

Nah, I think different animations are a must. Women just move differently than men.

In which case you're asking for a doubling-up of animations, which I think will be too much work for little gain. I think for a pragmatic solution the same anims could be used. I don't know that women soldiers move that differently :)

[-GR-Operative 10]

Nah, I think different animations are a must. Women just move differently than men.

When you are in the military, that doesn't matter. The only things that matter are the military doctrine and what your superiors say.

If they want you to talk, walk, aim, hold a gun or anything in a specific way, you'd better make it that way.

[*LK1* 10]

yeah! for the 2-3 only girls in the entire Arma community...

the only girl i saw playing BIS game gave me the conviction that they should stay away from BIS games. if you weren't part of FSI clan you can't understand.

:D

[Big Dawg KS 6]

In which case you're asking for a doubling-up of animations, which I think will be too much work for little gain. I think for a pragmatic solution the same anims could be used.

On the contrary, without new anims there would be no real gain at all. Aside from looking bad, it wouldn't be any different from putting long hair and breasts on a male character... :rolleyes: In any case, I'm pretty sure new anims would be needed anyway due to technical limitations (unless this has completely changed in ArmA 3).

I don't know that women soldiers move that differently :)

It's quite noticible when you see female characters using animations designed for male characters. Sometimes it's subtle, and sometimes it looks downright awful and wrong.

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Operative;1943300']When you are in the military' date=' that doesn't matter. The only things that matter are the military doctrine and what your superiors say.

If they want you to talk, walk, aim, hold a gun or anything in a specific way, you'd better make it that way.[/quote']

So every female character in the game will be military? Regardless, even with training, women have slightly different posture than men. It's simple anatomy.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[ravendk 25]

Sorry my rage.. but this is just stupid..

[Rage on]

COOOOME ON!!!! Female soldiers moving diffrent what the ... SIGH!!! How abt stepping out of the 1800's ?!

Have ANY of you ever been in the military?? What experiance do you base this off.

I served, i spend lot of years in the army and frankly what you guys are saying is just bull. Female soldiers move JUST LIKE MEN, its all very simple. 1 Head, 1 torso, 2 arms, 2 legs. Its a XX cromozone HUMAN instead of a XY cromozone human!

Of course some women do wird stuff BUT SO DO MEN!!!

Sure the reproductive organs look diffrent and they got (OMG) Boobs... SO F****** WHAT !

Saying that females can be soldiers is like (true story) saying that black people have bad night vison so they cant see in the dark. It is rediculess!

Saying that females are bad FPS gamers, well shiate sherlock, first time you played a FPS game YOU propperly ALLSO were crap at it.

Moste of this tropic is downright Racist and i feel ashame for you guys...

[Rage off]

Edited June 2, 2011 by RavenDK

[Zipper5 74]

Racist -> Sexist.

Not the same thing.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

So every female character in the game will be military? Regardless, even with training, women have slightly different posture than men. It's simple anatomy.

Sry Big Dawg but i think I'm going to side with DM on this one. He's right in that the focus should be on connecting animations and body types. Disregarding the inference of 'grace' that western culture atributes to female movement, we all basically move the same mechanicaly the differnces we detect are more due to weight distribution and limb proportion wich vary across both sexes.

Though this would be my prefered option I can't realy see it happening. Sounds a bit complex.

[paecmaker 23]

I dont have anything with female soldiers in ARMA3. And all the talk about animations, female have different animations and shit. I say that they should do the animations good for everyone. And they already got female civilians so doing female soldiers shouldnt be so hard, they are soldiers just like men.

[Primarch 10]

Sorry my rage.. but this is just stupid..

[Rage on]

COOOOME ON!!!! Female soldiers moving diffrent what the ... SIGH!!! How abt stepping out of the 1800's ?!

Have ANY of you ever been in the military?? What experiance do you base this off.

I served, i spend lot of years in the army and frankly what you guys are saying is just bull. Female soldiers move JUST LIKE MEN, its all very simple. 1 Head, 1 torso, 2 arms, 2 legs. Its a XX cromozone HUMAN instead of a XY cromozone human!

Of course some women do wird stuff BUT SO DO MEN!!!

Sure the reproductive organs look diffrent and they got (OMG) Boobs... SO F****** WHAT !

Saying that females can be soldiers is like (true story) saying that black people have bad night vison so they cant see in the dark. It is rediculess!

Saying that females are bad FPS gamers, well shiate sherlock, first time you played a FPS game YOU propperly ALLSO were crap at it.

Moste of this tropic is downright Racist and i feel ashame for you guys...

[Rage off]

You should complete your school first before saying that you served a minute in the army. Take a class of biology to know the anatomy difference between human male and female?

[max power 21]

...

I've never seen a woman move with combat gear on but their difference in movement in every day life has to do with where their centre of gravity is and how wide their hips are. On average, women have a slightly lower centre of gravity and their hips are at a slight mechanical disadvantage. I don't know how much of an impact that would have on your ability to spot a woman in combat gear. Any nice touches like that in the game would be welcome, though.

[Primarch 10]

I've never seen a woman move with combat gear on but their difference in movement in every day life has to do with where their centre of gravity is and how wide their hips are. On average, women have a slightly lower centre of gravity and their hips are at a slight mechanical disadvantage. I don't know how much of an impact that would have on your ability to spot a woman in combat gear. Any nice touches like that in the game would be welcome, though.

It just exaggerates the differences.

You'll see a flood of "NO, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE ON MAN AND WOMEN!11!" inbound.

[paecmaker 23]

If anyone dont think women CAN be soldiers THAT ARE ON THE FRONTLINE.

Look at these pics

I dont care if there arent any female soldiers in the game but it isnt a bad thing if they are.

[nkenny 1057]

Reality check please.

Are you guys nitpicking that Females (in full kit) should have subtly different animations?

Considering BIS less-than-awesome track record in animations?

Lets get AUTHENTIC, SMOOTH, and FUNCTIONAL animations for all soldiers first-- THEN start the discussion whether or not women in combat kit move notably differently-- enough to merit a TON OF WORK and extra resources for a microminimal feature.

-k

[DerKonig 10]

If anyone dont think women CAN be soldiers THAT ARE ON THE FRONTLINE.

Look at these pics

Please do not quote pictures!

I dont care if there arent any female soldiers in the game but it isnt a bad thing if they are.

You obviously have no idea what the term "Frontline" means. These are not pictures of front line combat zones. These are pictures of female service members in second/third line occupations. I mean really, people, its not this mythical debate that's answer is hidden by the government. Google it, in most modern militaries (Including the one that matters, the US) women CANNOT serve in combat occupations.

Edited June 3, 2011 by W0lle

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Considering BIS less-than-awesome track record in animations?

BIS produces excellent animations, and the ones for the women in ArmA 2 are great; just limited. They do use mocap for all of their anims, so I don't know how it can get any more realistic.

I think your complaints are more related to how the engine implements the animations, and it seems BIS is improving this in ArmA 3.