They better have female soldiers...

[wipman 1]

Hi, rightnow there're females in combat units on many countrys, by the year 2025 there will be much more, the us army and the Marines have a program rightnow called Lioness that goes just about that aside other needed field tasks.

BIS will be the 1St combat sim that will include female playable and AI units and they'll write their company's name on the gaming industry for doing it (if they get to do it) with all the free publicity that comes with it that's equal to: Potential Customers. In other words... more customers. More customers = more money. More money = better life + possiblity of make better games. Add female soldiers only have good points.

During the WWII the women demostrated their value as combatants on the front line for example in Stalingrad; during the Nam war, they did it as Viet-Cong soldiers, and the VC achived the military victory over a superior force in part due to this. The women have demostrated their utily in combat already doing the hard job of squeeze the F trigger. I vote for the female soldiers. Let's C ya

[Bulldog Six 10]

I wouldn't hold it against them if they no longer cared about what you want, Bulldog Six.

Well believe it or not BIS would be well advised to listen to some angry player's opinions if they expect them to buy their game and talk good about their future releases. I am disappointed for a reason. A game doesn't become a classic if it looks nice on first look and lacks details on second. And the predecessors pretty much do just that - nice and shiny look on the outside, and whacky gameplay feeling and boring storyline in the inside. Looking at what is there to see about A3 I get the feeling it won't change anytime soon, so excuse me for expressing my honest opinion about it. it is frustrating when a game is so promising and full of potential but becomes a second class game because of wrong set priorities of the dev's.

I got my share of experience in gaming and I know exactly what this game/sim needs to become a classic - if they were willing to listen I'd be willing to consult them. but I agree with you on one thing: I doubt that'll ever happen. it's up to them to prove us wrong.

[max power 21]

Well believe it or not BIS would be well advised to listen to some angry player's opinions if they expect them to buy their game and talk good about their future releases. I am disappointed for a reason. A game doesn't become a classic if it looks nice on first look and lacks details on second. And the predecessors pretty much do just that - nice and shiny look on the outside, and whacky gameplay feeling and boring storyline in the inside. Looking at what is there to see about A3 I get the feeling it won't change anytime soon, so excuse me for expressing my honest opinion about it. it is frustrating when a game is so promising and full of potential but becomes a second class game because of wrong set priorities of the dev's.

I got my share of experience in gaming and I know exactly what this game/sim needs to become a classic - if they were willing to listen I'd be willing to consult them. but I agree with you on one thing: I doubt that'll ever happen. it's up to them to prove us wrong.

You speak in a lot of absolutes and sound very angry. I wouldn't listen to you either. If your opinion is not unique, there are better places to get the information you're presenting. If your opinion is unique, it's very likely that you're not worth listening to in the first place because you represent only yourself, and frankly I doubt it's worth the time getting past your abrasive posting style to listen to what you actually may be saying. A lot of people present their opinion like they hold the key to BIS's business future... which makes me wonder if you get business advice on a public forum full of gamers...

Edited July 26, 2011 by Max Power

[Haystack15 10]

I still fail to see the reason why female character models shouldn't be made for ARMA….. I mean honestly, how will this affect the current Male ARMA players?

Some of the response I hear to that question is

1.) I don't want to shoot a female character

A1 - You can Sit there and let her shoot you then.. (Simple Problem Solved)

A2 - You can remember that what you are doing is playing a "Simulator/Game" and take into account that what you are not doing is something you’re not doing in real life.

2.) I don’t want to take orders from a female!

CQ1 – When your mother, wife or girlfriend tells you to go do something, will you do it?

CQ2 – What do you find more manly and honorable?

- Men taking orders from only men because they are males?

- Men taking only simple orders from both sexes?

- Men taking any kind of order form both sexes?

Women are an extreme danger to their male counterparts on the field.

More BS

Women are only an extreme danger to their male counterparts when they have a gun in their hands and pointing it at them....

End story really is that BIS won't do it regardless be it due to bad press or something else, this is more or less an unwinnable battle and it has nothing to do with the community's beliefs.

This is probably the only thing said on this thread that gives a logical reason why virtual female characters cannot be implemented into ARMA.

______________________________________________

But most of us keep comparing ARMA 3 to real life when sadly in Real Life ARMA 3 haven’t taken place yet due to the time frame it was set in. Many things can change in the world in just 3 years. Who knows maybe in the future, females will be in the frontlines in many countries. And let’s say for example if BIS does implement Women into ARMA. If you look at the motto of ARMA III it will say “Survive, Adapt, Winâ€.

Learn to Adapt to a possible virtual future world. ARMA is not Real Life People. If you forgot about that then you need to take some time off it..........

Edited July 26, 2011 by Haystack15

[ryguy 10]

It's been done in plenty of other games, and we ALREADY CAN shoot and kill women civilians. So there goes the "morality" argument.

[Bulldog Six 10]

It's been done in plenty of other games, and we ALREADY CAN shoot and kill women civilians. So there goes the "morality" argument.

Totally agree with you!

If the reason female soldiers aren't included is a question of morality one should start putting war(games) in question in the first place. Noone seems to have a problem with that, so why be a hypocrite about it with female soldiers? Makes no sence to me either.

@Max Power: first, I stated I'm angry and frustrated. you don't have to read between the lines to catch that. second, I don't really care if BIS takes any advice. it's just another opportunity missed.

EDIT: actually I do care a bit, because I want a game like this to be fun and realistic at the same time. most games have lost the fun part in the last decade and merely turned into semi-fun sparetime killers and mass-conditioning-vehicles.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Bulldog Six
spelling error correction

[max power 21]

@Max Power: first, I stated I'm angry and frustrated. you don't have to read between the lines to catch that.

Right, but you can state, "I'm really frustrated..." and still come off civil.

second, I don't really care if BIS takes any advice. it's just another opportunity missed.

Oh, I doubt that very much.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

It's been done in plenty of other games, and we ALREADY CAN shoot and kill women civilians. So there goes the "morality" argument.

Yep, and it gets worse when they cant shoot back.

[Bulldog Six 10]

Right, but you can state, "I'm really frustrated..." and still come off civil.

who are you, the nanny? get out of my face.

Oh, I doubt that very much.

you write as if you'd know me. well you don't, so again: get out of my face.

civil enough?

Edited July 26, 2011 by Bulldog Six
being civil

[ryguy 10]

Chill out dude, BIS isn't going to schedule personal interviews with everyone who has an opinion. That doesn't mean they aren't taking everyone's with at least a grain of salt.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Stop arguing here. You'll just get the thread locked...

[solidsnake2384 10]

Lol im just imagining the female audio for commands. Id rather keep them out, except for pilots and stuff like that but itll just feel like Michelle Rodriguez is there if the females were in a combat role in Arma 3 since shes in a bunch of military films (Resident Evil, Avatar, Battle LA). Yes, NATO is getting desperate but id rather keep them out.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Lol im just imagining the female audio for commands.

Why would you need to imagine? Some of the female units in ArmA 2 already have a fully recorded radio protocol.

And I agree about the morality thing being BS; if anything killing an armed woman in game would be more just (not that I personally believe killing virtual anythings is immoral) than how currently they are absolutely unarmed.

As others have said I think just about any arguments against arming females in ArmA 3 have been invalidated at this point.

[max power 21]

who are you, the nanny? get out of my face.

you write as if you'd know me. well you don't, so again: get out of my face.

civil enough?

LOL. Unsolicited advice is just great, isn't it?

Edited July 26, 2011 by Max Power

[nodunit 397]

It's been done in plenty of other games, and we ALREADY CAN shoot and kill women civilians. So there goes the "morality" argument.

And what games are these? A game like GTA can get away with this because it is not a war game. (wierd isn't it)

[max power 21]

You can shoot women in ArmA 2 and OA, I think... I mean, I think they aren't invulnerable. I've never actually shot one in the game, to be honest, but I assume they can die.

[rye1 21]

Yeah they die.

[ryguy 10]

And what games are these? A game like GTA can get away with this because it is not a war game. (wierd isn't it)

Assasins Creed, Tomb Raider, Call of Duty (terrorist level), Fallout 3, Halo, Mortal Kombat, WoW... you want me to keep going?

"GTA can get away with it because it's not a war game"... sure :j: ... so I guess even though there's rocket launchers, assault rifles, and mass murder, no country has formally declared war on each other? Therefore, not a war game? Interesting logic I guess, but still doesn't hold up considering the other games I've mentioned.

Edited July 26, 2011 by ryguy

[nodunit 397]

The logic isn't so much mine as much as the media's (and somewhat public opinion).

It doesn't seem to matter what types of weapons the game may have as long as it's not touted as a "realistic" millitary war game, incidentally it doesn't appear to be the fact that women can be shot, or technicly shoot.. It seems instead that the 'morality' (if you could call that twisted logic moral) arguement comes out when a user can play as a female soldier who can actively do virtually anything a guy can.

You never hear people crying about the morality and 'danger of women on the battlefield' in a game like fall of reach afterall, or any complaints about a female commander sheppard from mass effect, and while the hooker and strip club business is more or less 'controveral' in GTA it is less condemned than the idea of a fully functional female soldier in a realisticly portrayed military of today...wonderful world we live in isn't it.

Edited July 26, 2011 by NodUnit

[ryguy 10]

Well I've never heard of a game even doing that before... I would be very surprised even at todays media if anyone got angry over this.

Edited July 26, 2011 by ryguy

[nodunit 397]

The media is normally stirring things up anyway, what should be more concerningis the attitude of the players and you need look no further than this very thread to get an idea of what that attitude is.

Edited July 26, 2011 by NodUnit

[DieAngel 0]

The arguments you usually see here stem from milsim enthusiasts who adhere to the entire US military doctrin, rather than pick from it what is good and productive for playing and experiencing a milsim and discard what is the product if a hyper masculine environment, they simply take the whole thing, or none of it.

It's a good thing that Arma3 is set in a hypothetic future, this gives room to the designers, and hopefully will separate us from the usual bullshit that you tend to encounter when depicting current and past military bodies.

I have nothing against sticking to good ideas that stem from the military, they made war for decades, they certainy know a thing or two about it, the standard operation manuals and the like are all good reading materials for playing milsim games.

The doctrine as a whole contain a lot that could be improved and result of traditionalism, that the army as a whole is an entity that takes very little input from the rest of the society and tend to live by it's own rules.

I'm going to link here the absolutely exellent character customisation system that was used in ranbow six vegas 2, granted it MIGHT be a little too much for Arma3, i think it's the sort of things BIS should look into.

Edited July 26, 2011 by DieAngel

[Bulldog Six 10]

You can shoot women in ArmA 2 and OA, I think... I mean, I think they aren't invulnerable. I've never actually shot one in the game, to be honest, but I assume they can die.

another perfect example of what your "advice" is worth. how about you stick to what you DO know before you start guessing, thinking, assuming etc..

you said something about 'unsolicited advice': taking a look at the amount of posts you've written tells me you can't keep your so called advice to yourself. maybe you should think more about not running such a big mouth.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Bulldog Six

[Ish 11]

What?! Females in the army? nooo.. Just ask the Israelis :D

Seriously though, this is probably a cultural thing. Same with dismemberment, child soldiers, pregnancy on in-game models etc etc.. all very real, but all very touchy. In this particular case however, I don't get it? If a girl in my country said she was in the army, I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. At least the SAM team is working on female models (no pun intended).

[gossamersolid 155]

*Rye sets up a mission in the editor where you massacre women*

Yeah they die.