Stealth Kills?

[PuFu 4591]

Actually it does, because you could use that to your advantage to sneak around bases, which could have an impact on stealth kills

Again, stealth kills includes more than just up close and personal. While suppressors(there is no such thing as silencer) can be quite loud inside buildings and in tight environments, this thread is not called knives in A3 for a good reason.

The current system doesn't allow the stealth component in A2/OA to work properly without additional scripting needed, which is a pity.

I'm sorry I see your posts all the time and 90% of them are just pure trolling.

I'm also sorry you feel that way, feel free to check my post history for a proper % though.

[Haystack15 10]

(there is no such thing as silencer)

"Suppressor" - A suppressor, sound suppressor, sound moderator, or silencer, is a device attached to or part of the barrel of a firearm which reduces the amount of noise and flash generated by firing the weapon.

AKA "Silencer" does exist, Its a term to refer to a device. :)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

AKA "Silencer" does exist, Its a term to refer to a device. :)

I offer that pufu was suggesting that silencers, when considered literally (i.e. make a weapon completely silent), do not exist. He was not arguing that the word does not exist.

[rye1 21]

I agree Black, that will definitely open it up! It allowed you to easily get within arms length of the AI, it's definitely opened up all the stealth and sneaky astmosphere of the game. The OP states stealth kills to be up close and personal, and I agree, it should be something that should be included though. The video also showed us that suppressed weapons work against the AI from a good 70m away in open terrain. The OP also states a simple animation of which to use this, this may not mean using a knife PuFu, it's a discussion, not saying this will happen or that will happen:- take the good out of it and get rid of the bad.

And if you wanted to get that in-detail with suppressors within buildings then a semi should be louder than bolt action, subsonic rounds louder than supersonic/sonic. The current designs (nevermind future ones) have little to no zero shift.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Rye

[CarlGustaffa 4]

How effective a sound suppressor is depends greatly on the noise environment it operates in. I don't believe the AI has a perception of surrounding sounds, meaning that they will hear your footsteps even no matter how noisy the scene is. Maybe they hear less if they're inside their own running vehicle, not sure.

[maddogx 13]

How effective a sound suppressor is depends greatly on the noise environment it operates in. I don't believe the AI has a perception of surrounding sounds, meaning that they will hear your footsteps even no matter how noisy the scene is. Maybe they hear less if they're inside their own running vehicle, not sure.

I'm pretty sure they hear less when inside a vehicle, though I'm not sure which factors play a role. Does it matter if the vehicle is open or closed, or if the engine is running or not? Don't know.

One thing I believe they don't have is a general "hearing threshold" that is affected by ambient noise. Normally, when in a loud environment, you can no longer hear quiet sounds - they are "drowned out" - but this probably isn't the case for the AI. Perhaps it would be a nice feature to suggest on the Arma3 CIT. :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Don't think it's feasible. Requires each AI to have a db meter hearing actual "played" sound, which is way too expensive. Can't work off config db values as you don't know how the sample is in sustained loudness or organized. Like

BRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

BANG..................piff

i you know what I mean.

[Blackfox34 14]

you can already sneak behind enemies, especially if they have no NVGs, think is it is risky (yes it is risky in real life) but i think even more so in ARMA with the AI's laser vision. I've managed to do it in ARMA unscripted numerous times, however, once I open up with any gun, my cover is blown and if the AI is grouped to another unit its all over.

You don't need AI to differentiate sounds really, just fix the AI's vision/awareness depending on skill. Then you just need to add an action or weapon (or hands) to take them out!

[J-Guid 10]

- Close combat mode!

knock out weapons from the hands of the enemy (with some chance, butt or kick) - Eat stamina...

- Strong kicks

- Ability to knock out legs the door

- Capture and counter capture the characters in the melee to further strangulation or breaking the neck

[onlyrazor 11]

- Close combat mode!

knock out weapons from the hands of the enemy (with some chance, butt or kick) - Eat stamina...

- Strong kicks

- Ability to knock out legs the door

- Capture and counter capture the characters in the melee to further strangulation or breaking the neck

lITBGjNEp08

[dysta 10]

Finally, I've found them. The underwater firearm with silencer or crossbow would be a good choice for the stealth operation. They're PLA frogmen in training site:

[J-Guid 10]

Glock 17 SD, help you... :)

[rye1 21]

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=10229 Good read.

[Friendorpho 10]

I'd be all for non/less-than-lethal takedowns, especially for the SP campaign. Hypothetically, there are circumstances in which you might need to restrain a civilian or take an enemy combatant in alive. Giving players the ability to do such things, would just be one more layer of depth. Granted, they should be risky actions, and certainly have potentially negative consequences.

I'd also be in support of lethal hand-to-hand take downs as well. The only problem I forsee would be, maintaining the authenticity and attention to detail at the cost of having either a simplistic hand-to-hand combat system, or one that is too complex for it's own good. How exactly would hand-to-hand combat work, would our soldiers use Krav Maga or simply bash in an Opfor's face with an entrenching tool?

Sidenote, if China is going to be present in-game I'd love to get my hands on a suppressed QSZ-92 in 5.8mm, crossbow I can take or leave.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Friendorpho

[nkenny 1051]

What makes you think Krav-Maga is signifincantly differently from bashing someones head in? :)

-k

[Friendorpho 10]

Smiley duly noted.

What I was trying to get at was, should the hand-to-hand combat be super complex and border on being a martial arts simulator, or simply be a press of a button to use a melee weapon. The way I see it is that being too detailed would only make the hand-to-hand combat needlessly complex, thus requiring more money/time spent developing it, and make the end result as challenging as real hand-to-hand combat. Or the alternative, simply pressing a "Melee Attack" button.

Granted these aren't the only two options, but the discussion that leads to the best option was what I was trying to inspire.

One possible way to go about this would be the use of hand-to-hand QTE (quick time events) where you engage in hand-to-hand fighting and press corrisponding keys in order to execute parries/attacks in response to the actions of the enemy. This is only an example, I do not think that this would be the right way of going about the issue at least not for Arma 3.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Friendorpho

[NoRailgunner 0]

Press X - for stealth kill and get 100pts + medal/badge "Stealth Warrior"

Press X twice - for stealth combo kill and get 250pts + medal/badge "SuperStealth Warrior"

:rolleyes:

[Pulverizer 1]

Given that Arma3 (campaign?) features some under cover action, melee combat would be even more useful since you could get close to enemies unsuspected much easier to knock them out without too much noise.

[PuFu 4591]

again, i am afraid of a poor implementation rather than anything else. Also, the way the AI reacts to suppressed weapons need to change for the better before slice and bash can make an appearance

[Darkguerilla 10]

Yeah it sucks that when you use a suppressed weapon the AI automatically go "O hey LOUD gunshot the guy is in that bush shoot there, o wait there he goes behind that wall, shoot there, wait he is moving keep firing there he is at the end of that wall, we got him". AI don't deserve to be able to use aimbot and certainly there must be restrictions placed on the AI in terms of limiting what they hear. I'd figure they can only hear a suppressed weapon with a few meters 10-50 at most and not 100 or more, (of course I'm not real mil so..). Also in terms of that should be environment sounds. I mean come on a tank rolling by would make the suppressed shot silenced and any engine noise would as well.

[Militant1006 11]

well apart from being slightly quiter in terms of decibels the sound are mostly changed, so when heard at a bit of a distance it doesn't sound unnoticable.

[metalcraze 290]

Yeah it sucks that when you use a suppressed weapon the AI automatically go "O hey LOUD gunshot the guy is in that bush shoot there

Suppressed weapons are not silent, especially not M4s. Suppressed weapons also may have quite a noticeable muzzleflash, especially at dark.

, o wait there he goes behind that wall, shoot there, wait he is moving keep firing there he is at the end of that wall, we got him". AI don't deserve to be able to use aimbot and certainly there must be restrictions placed on the AI in terms of limiting what they hear.

AI is quite blind and deaf in ArmA2, what are you talking about? BIS should teach it to keep shooting when you hide behind a bush, not forget about the player the moment you run behind it.

I'd figure they can only hear a suppressed weapon with a few meters 10-50 at most and not 100 or more

AI doesn't hear silenced weapons at these distances, unless it's a silenced sniper rifle which is quite loud.

Here's an example:

BB1MWBLm5jg

- you can perfectly hear this 100m away

More, including silenced M4s

O2XiLWgggQU

The only silent "silenced" SMG present in-game is MP5. And it indeed can't be heard by AI past ~20-30m

Edited October 19, 2011 by metalcraze

[bradp191 10]

^What he said. A suppressed Mk12 sounds just like a .22 rimfire.

[roberthammer 582]

In M4 : if you have a good silencer , which are very expensive it is alot silenced than in your video

For example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w_IlUjhl6k

[metalcraze 290]

Yet it still has that clear pshhhh which will easily alert quite a number of enemies nearby.

People just watch too much hollywoodish stuff and think that silenced weapons are not heard past 10m.