ARMA II Beta Builds Released: Latest version/build: 1.04.6xxxx

[nkenny 1051]

ARMA2_Build_60902.zip

Is by far one of the best betas I've played from a "squad control" point of view. The game is immersive as I spend much less time micro-managing the AI. This in turn makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

The new formation and bounding alterations are very functional and the warrior skills of the AI has improved immensely since the 1.0 release. Even so I'd like to offer some thoughts on simple game enhancing changes that would offer significant upgrade for those of us who prefer hands on handling of the AI.

MODES and ROE

• STEALTH
  
  
  • Movement
    should ALWAYS be limited to walk/slow
    
    
    ;the
    single
    exception is when returning to formation form beyond 80 or so meters.
    
    
  • Stance
    should depend solely on distance to nearest known enemy.
    
    
    ;
    [if None or beyond 300-200 meters (standing), less than 200-150 meters crouched, less than 80ish meters prone].
    
    
    ; First exception. If the Squad leader drops prone, so should the entire unit.
    
    
    ; Second exception. If under fire the squad reverts to Combat/Bounding overwatch.
  Think about it. Stealth mode should be slow, purposeful and just that. SNEAKY. While the AIs ability to locate concealment is praiseworthy, his ability to inhabit and utilize it is the opposite. The AI will invariably RUN to his next destination and also spend an inordinate amount of time shifting through stances.
  I propose that speed and stance changes should be kept under rigid control in stealth mode.
  [*]
  COMBAT
  • Static/Stationary
    AI should invariably prioritize the
    crouched
    stance.
    
    
    ; First exception. If regrouping with Squad Leader.
    
    
    ; Second exception. If engaging enemy at 200+ meters. Prone is permitted.
    
    
    ; Third exception. Certain situations such as being damaged or "in danger". Prone is again permitted.
    
    
  • Fire and Movement
    within 30 meters. AI that engages enemy at close range should be able to MOVE (towards his next position) and SHOOT at the same time.
  Combat mode needs to offer deliberate and aggressive movement, combined with effective firepower delivered from reasonably protected firepoints. Again the AIs ability to recognize concealment is commendable. However the tendency of the AI to remain standing at the most inappropriate places and to limit his ability to engage targets by going prone behind cover. Leaves much to be desired. AI again spends too much time shifting between stances.
  AI in combat mode is obviously anticipating trouble. AI should be prepared to move at a moments notice. Preferring crouched stance while stationary is a reasonable compromise for this.
  [*]
  DISCUSSION
  The AI flows from cover to cover with a smoothness that is a joy to behold.
  Unfortunately the AI doesn't always get it. The AI tends towards two extremes of postures. That is standing and prone.In the psudo-realistic setting/situation ARMA2 offers neither are ideal.
  Doing the 'stance dance' (prone-standing, standing-prone) just doesn't cut it. Particularly in the close engagement ranges of ARMA2. Let us now take wisdom in how many player-Squad leaders force the AI to stick to the Crouched stance. Face the facts a crouched AI is more capable soldier, but forcing it offers a less than ideal solution.
  Shifting between standing and prone works fine as is for AWARE mode. Typically used when patrolling, fast-tabbing forward or reacting to a contact. However when a squad leader anticipates trouble and designates the COMBAT mode active. The AI needs to be concerned with speed and hard cover. Stance requirements change. Finally when stalking behind enemy lines or setting up an ambush. ie: typical STEALTH mode work. The AI needs to act accordingly. Slow speed,concealment and low stances are now priority.

AI BEHAVIOUR VARIOUS BETA COMMENTARIES

• Delta and Column (Compact) don't cut it.
  
  
  At least for player run squads these movements modes offer little. Mostly because the AI is forced to make odd roundabout movements to accommodate what I assume is the AI 'grid'
  
  
  ; Perfect solution would be if the player created a set of 'micro-waypoints' behind him that the AI could emulate. (ie: the player moved there, climbed over at those coordinates, through that bush, I should be able to as well)
  
  
  ; It be even greater if the micro-waypoint
  Trail
  could be recorded and stored for mission-creators to enable.
  
  
• Suppression and Ammunition expenditure
  
  
  AI is still quite conservative with its ammunition.
  
  
  ; It would be great if the AI was more willing to enter 'suppressfor' mode by its own volition (possibly inversely proportional to skill. (recruits attempt to 'suppress' more often than veterans)
  
  
  ; More fire at "supposed" locations?
  
  
• "Go I'm covering"xMillions bug
  
  
  Mentioned many times before.
  
  
  ; Simple fix would be to remove those kinds of messages FROM the radio. Make them voice commands. Immersive, clean, and easy fix.
  
  
• AI and Area Fire
  
  
  The AI is still quite helpless when engaged beyond 300m meters.
  
  
  ; Perhaps the 'Supressfor' variable can somehow be tweaked to create a faithful representation of area fire?
  
  
• AI and Grenade Launcher
  
  
  AI spends an large amount of time mucking about with the GL yet rarely shoots. After three generations of Bohemia games, I've yet to be hit by an AI 40mm.
  
  
  ; If it cannot be fixed. Simply disable it.
  
  
  ; Perhaps permit AI GL fire while using "supressfor" command?

-k

[otrebla_snake_ita 2]

COMBAT

* Static/Stationary AI should invariably prioritize the crouched stance.

; First exception. If regrouping with Squad Leader.

; Second exception. If engaging enemy at 200+ meters. Prone is permitted.

; Third exception. Certain situations such as being damaged or "in danger". Prone is again permitted.

* Fire and Movement within 30 meters. AI that engages enemy at close range should be able to MOVE (towards his next position) and SHOOT at the same time.

;Fourth exception: if enemy is close (CQC) and teammate(s) are standing up, crouching or going prone is useless: they MUST engage immediately the enemy

What about buildings use? AI seems to ignore the usefulness of buildings

Edited December 7, 2009 by otreblA_SNAKE_[ITA]

[Bouben 3]

ARMA2_Build_60902.zip

ARMA2_Build_60902.zip

Is by far one of the best betas I've played from a "squad control" point of view. The game is immersive as I spend much less time micro-managing the AI. This in turn makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

The new formation and bounding alterations are very functional and the warrior skills of the AI has improved immensely since the 1.0 release. Even so I'd like to offer some thoughts on simple game enhancing changes that would offer significant upgrade for those of us who prefer hands on handling of the AI.

One of the most important and best inputs here so far! +1

Of course that quote is just ilustrative and I mean the whole NkEnNy's text actually.

BIS, please, look into it.

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------

And now my new impressions from beta 60902:

For the first time ever since I started to play ARMA 2, I experience really bad bad performance.

Don't know why, but mostly in first person mode and when looking flatly with ground or when I look right under my legs. I don't understand it at all, but that are my findings. Game is quite unplayable now. Before this beta, I had a nice and smooth game (while my PC is not the best tho).

[maturin 12]

I think crouch, rather than stealth should be the stance the AI enters when suddenly confronted with an enemy nearby. If I walk around a corner and surprise an unaware rifleman, he will turn and lie down, giving me a lot of time to shoot him. The accuracy benefit is negligible at such close range, while the movement is very slow.

[evilfury 0]

Performance near buildings is still low. Instead in woods where is perfect.

[.kju 3239]

Demo/repro missions needed..

[Bouben 3]

Demo/repro missions needed..

Well, repro is just to simply look under your legs or just run around and count FPS and pay attention for slowdowns - if you are talking about that performance issues. Cause I can't imagine any repro mission for that.

EDIT:

or maybe some youtube video?

[teaboy 11]

the problem i was having in patch 60803 with regards to the AI formation movement. ive noticed that when you first purchase the AI units they form up fine, but once you encounter the enemy they automatically go into danger/combat mode, which is great because now i dont have to tell them there being shot at. Problem is that they remain in that mode, so when i want to move fast to a different location e.g under smoke cover, they simply follow me at snails pace despite telling them to goto aware mode etc. And on top of that even when the dam enemy have all been killed in that particular area, they still remain in combat/danger mode despite me telling them to be aware or its safe. As a result they are non responsive or be it very very slow to my commands i.e. returning to formation etc. Surely the devs could change it so that they come out of combat/danger mode on your command and automatically when their is no enemy units in the area that havent been spotted.

ill try the 60902 version and let you know if any better.

Edited December 7, 2009 by teaboy

[bascule42 10]

Im having performance issues with 902 also. Previous build 899 was, for me, the best yet in terms of performance. i was getting a playable framerate with view distance set to 3500m - which for a HD3800 512MB, 2GB RAM & a AMD64x2 5200+ 2.7GHz, was most impressive.

Alas with 902, I'm back to 1500m and it still stutters.

[cossack8559 10]

I have noticed no performance drop in 902... but a.i is still very slow at keeping up with commanders when in danger mode....

[MNX 10]

Bug Report:

When accepting "steal stuff from ennemy depot" in armory / Chernarus and Utes, as the challenge begins, right after loading is finished, it says "failed/item destroyed" and the mission is over.

Thx

[lwlooz 0]

Hello,

- when you issue All, Return to formation, formation direction is reset to your current direction

Thanks for this.

Trying out 60902 I discovered that this "problem" was still present.

- Observation: AI under human control which are in "Combat" mode will remain mostly immobile as long as the player moves.

- Repro:

1. Download
   Mission
   
   
2. Run
   non-stop
   to the "1"-Marker
   
   
3. Without stopping run to the "Wait"-Marker
   
   
4. On disbelief either go back to "1" Marker or run around town.
   
   

I don't know if fixing this will increase unit cohesion , but I don't see the point of them not following you either , unless that was done to save some computing time.

All in all , I appreciate the work that has been done on the AI so far , even tho up to this beta the advantages of "bounding-overwatch" in combat mode are still outweighed by very high chances of loss of cohesion if not loss of command that can appear.

[Hud Dorph 22]

I wonder if these ai-tweaks are harder to handle for dedicated servers running large scale battles with many ai like evo or domi. Reason i ask this is that after3-4 last betapatches on my server i seem to have 2-3 daily "out of memory" crashes on the server.

[Bouben 3]

Hello,

Thanks for this.

Trying out 60902 I discovered that this "problem" was still present.

- Observation: AI under human control which are in "Combat" mode will remain mostly immobile as long as the player moves.

- Repro:

1. Download
   Mission
   
   
2. Run
   non-stop
   to the "1"-Marker
   
   
3. Without stopping run to the "Wait"-Marker
   
   
4. On disbelief either go back to "1" Marker or run around town.
   
   

I don't know if fixing this will increase unit cohesion , but I don't see the point of them not following you either , unless that was done to save some computing time.

All in all , I appreciate the work that has been done on the AI so far , even tho up to this beta the advantages of "bounding-overwatch" in combat mode are still outweighed by very high chances of loss of cohesion if not loss of command that can appear.

Well, try to go around it with column or diamond formations. They will catch up better.

Anyway, I think, that AI is now quite ok in cohesion with you. More problematic is their combat/danger mode and their really slow going to cover and permanent changes of positions.

[maturin 12]

The beta patches don't work when you play online, right?

[nkenny 1051]

Sure you can. :)

And as I understand you get to take advantage of the AI upgrades too.

-k

[maturin 12]

Sure you can. :)

And as I understand you get to take advantage of the AI upgrades too.

-k

I don't really understand how that would be possible. It would mean the AI in your game are behaving differently from the AI in their game.

[Maddmatt 1]

I don't really understand how that would be possible. It would mean the AI in your game are behaving differently from the AI in their game.

AI in your squad are handled by your PC. AI lead groups are handled by the server.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

So how is the latest beta compared to 1.04? Much better AI and much less bugs?

[Alex72 1]

So how is the latest beta compared to 1.04? Much better AI and much less bugs?

ummm what? Havent you read this thread? Everything is much better yes. Just friggin test it. Takes 10 seconds to install.

[kMaN175 34]

Where do you sign-up to get the emails about new beta patches being released?

[jw custom 56]

Where do you sign-up to get the emails about new beta patches being released?

Think there's a tool that someone made around here that did that, also think YOMA does it aswell, notify you.

Else simply check the forum a few times a day :)

[maddogx 13]

Think there's a tool that someone made around here that did that, also think YOMA does it aswell, notify you.

Else simply check the forum a few times a day :)

Actually it was made by Yapab.

You can sign up for beta emails here: http://www.qbasix.com/ARMA2/

[kMaN175 34]

Actually it was made by Yapab.

You can sign up for beta emails here: http://www.qbasix.com/ARMA2/

THanks!

Edited December 8, 2009 by kMaN_(KYA)

[SASrecon 0]

yay new beta! 61012

changelog:

[60954] Changed: Increased range of ILS signal from 3 to 8 km.

[60939] Improved: increased VASI brightness to increase its visible range.

[60908] New: BattleEye support