Knife in ArmA 2 ?

[blasko 0]

Hello everybody,

As in Operation Flashpoint 2 players can use knife and maybe some kind of hand-to-hand combat, I would like to know if you people from BIS have planned to implement this weapon ( or Close Quarter Combat ) into the game ? Because I didn't see any knife in the weapon list on the official website.

The campaign of ArmA 2 displays 4 special forces, so it would be logical to be able to use a knife in short distances.

Thank you for developping this game.

Regards,

Blasko

[11aTony 0]

Maybe you should use "search" thing next time.

[Pirate. 0]

Hello everybody,

As in Operation Flashpoint 2 players can use knife and maybe some kind of hand-to-hand combat, I would like to know if you people from BIS have planned to implement this weapon ( or Close Quarter Combat ) into the game ? Because I didn't see any knife in the weapon list on the official website.

The campaign of ArmA 2 displays 4 special forces, so it would be logical to be able to use a knife in short distances.

Thank you for developping this game.

Regards,

Blasko

Maybe you should stay far away from military simulations... knives are for cooking.

[Madav 10]

A knife would be very valuable and logical if properly implemented.

If a person runs out of ammo or ends up right behind an enemy while rounding a building what are they to do? Emote them to death?

If there were just some form of melee attack - any attack - even a shove or butt with a rifle to gain some distance it'd work wonders. Are we really to run away and scrounge for ammunition simply because Bohemia failed to put in such a practical solution to an apparent issue?

Given there are balancing issues to take into account, such as how many hits equate to a kill or how often an attack can be initiated (I mean sniper rifles can kill with shots to the head or upper torso, but they also have limited ammo and some have slower reload) There is a genuine need for such a feature and they really ought to consider having knives in this game.

From a tactical standpoint, for instance, what if you've got no silencer to take out a guard and you wish to remain stealth? From a logistical standpoint, a player happens upon an enemy just around the corner and there's a structure in the way, what do they do? There are limited options and there are points where one just wants to say forget the gun, I need a swift and reliable attack.

[Murklor 10]

How many... Hits? With a knife?

Eerr... If knives where ever implemented in the game, I hope its technically an "action": your character covers the enemy mouth and thrust the blade into them.

But I'm not really a military guy. I'm sure someone can verify whether real life soldiers using a knife do it the quiet way or whether they run up to the enemy and start to prison shank them 50 times.

[celery 8]

Maybe you should stay far away from military simulations... knives are for cooking.

Knives are also for killing.

[D_O_A 10]

I'm surprised combat knives haven't been added yet. They are a great tool on stealth missions.

[twisted 128]

I'd like knives to have hit point damage depending on distance, angle to enemy and type of knife. from behind is instant DEATH! but in front could turn into a knife fight. and then i can face off against my greatest AI enemies.

Also be great online - and if knives aren't instantly fatal i could walk around poking my team mates with it. sort of like on facebook but this time drawing virtual blood. or when we are waiting for commanders to figure out our plan we could run around knifing each other. hey, if we were all medics we could knife and heal each other and rack up amazing scores. or was that joint ops?

could we also throw the knives. that would be great if we wanted to be stealth but the AI wouldn't stand still.

hey, nunchakas would also be great. man, i went to sports meet and this guy he had a pair and was showing off and hit someone on the head and totally knocked the other guy out. be a great non-lethal way of being stealthy.

Shurikens too. those are those pointy throwing stars. well guess if they weren't pointy there'd be no point to them being thrown at an enemy as all they'd do is bruise them. did you know ninjas use them? so there's no question that they'd be the ultimate stealthy tool.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I never understand why there is such a big call to have knives in this game when the only hand-to-hand combat training that 99% of soldiers will ever receive is using their rifle as a melee weapon, whether it be as a club or fixed with a bayonet.

Surely it makes more sense to request the implementation hand-to-hand combat with rifles, before looking into using secondary weapons such as entrenching tools and knives. It provides the CQB element that so many people here desire, in a manner that better reflects the approach of real armies to melee combat.

[kremator 1065]

No no no no and NO. Keep those dangerous pointy things away from A2 !

[Inkompetent 0]

could we also throw the knives. that would be great if we wanted to be stealth but the AI wouldn't stand still.

Throwing weapons are a complete joke really. You are stupidly unlikely to ever kill anyone with a throwing knife, and even less with a shuriken (shurikens are more of a multi-blade dagger for close combat that *can* be thrown to cause your enemy pain and reduce his effectiviness in fighting). Only thing one would manage to would be to hurt them a bit and make them scream, alerting everyone within 200m.

No soldier with self-respect and with any kind of sense would ever throw away his knife, and silenced pistols were invented for a reason. A shot is almost always prefered over the knife.

I do agree though that knifes do have a place in ArmA. Although I'm not really sad if we never get them.

[sgt_hawkins 9]

I must say as a 9 year combat veteran I used My Knife several times in war..to dig the mud out of my boots. If you get that close to the enemy you are dead or captured. A real soldier even a sf one would never allow himself to get that close.

[Inkompetent 0]

I know I've read about some SEAL soldier killing a soldier with a knife once after emerging from the water, but that's the only knife-kill post WW2 that I can recall reading about at all.

Well, then a US Ranger that breached a house and got so close to an enemy he couldn't use his rifle, and instead grabbed his tomahawk and chopped the Iraqi in the head, but that's it.

[froggyluv 2135]

Well I posted this in one of the many other Knife/Hand to hand threads some time ago:

I just watched an episode of History Channel's 'Shootout', a very interesting show which gives blow-by blow recreations of real life squad level combat. In 2 different present day Iraqi scenarios, Marines were forced to use their knives for the kill.

In the first scenario, Marines were trying to clear an abandoned hotel when they heard arabic voices coming from the basement as well as the floor above. Being that their orders were to clear the building from the ground up, they sent a unit into the basement, when the soldier in the lead came face to face with an Iraqi insurgent holding an RPG. The Marine stated that he was just too close to effectively use his rifle, drew his knife, and stabbed his enemy in the head.

The second scenario was in Fallujah, when Marines were trying to secure an outdoor area dedicated to allow the Iraqi civilians free access to voting, when shots erupted from a heavily tweeded, marshy area in which one Marine, one Insurgent were killed in the exchange. The Marines, belived there to be other insurgents hidden in the heavily concealed position, so one soldier, dropped his rifle, and stealthfully entered the low-visibilty area, stalked and attacked the Insurgent, killing him by knife in the encounter.

...so knives definitely have been used in recent conflicts. Whether or not they would be useful or practical in Arma2 is a matter of preference I guess but my vote is for some sort of melele strike whether it be riflebutt, bayonet or knife. It's the "nothingness" that is the most unrealistic imho.

Edited July 16, 2009 by froggyluv

[nkenny 1057]

*shrug*

The only way I can imagine the ARMA2 engine handle melee combat with any degree of accuracy would be something like this.

Everyone can melee attack. Done with the single press of a button. Kinda like "climb over anim" works now. Instant kill. (one shot kill)

Knives are an upgrade that consumes one or two equipment slots. A fighting knife upgrades the "melee" button to produce a STEALTHY kill. (still one shot on kill)

- K

[dmarkwick 261]

I have no real opinion either way, I'm ambivalent on the subject, but one question would be: is the ArmA2 engine really suitable for hand-to-hand combat? It seems to me that ArmA2 is a mid-range battlefield engine, neither suitable for flight sims or hand-to-hand.

Just a thought :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

OFP/ArmA and Arma2 arent CQC/CQB shooters games. The focus is more on infantry combat and use of combined arms.

But thanks to open sandbox concept everyone can find some creative solutions that fit ones needs. :)

Btw there are dozens of similar threads...

[chaplainDMK 10]

You do know that US Marine Corps train in knife, unarmed, bayonet attached rifle and rifle but combat? And they dont take it for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybRcpaowbt0

Though martial arts--including bayonet and sword thrusts and unarmed close combat techniques--have been employed by members of the U.S. Marine Corps since its inception during the Revolutionary War period, a new era began in 2000, with the creation of the U.S. Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP). In the aftermath of the Persian Gulf War and the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, the U.S. military--specifically the Army and the Marine Corps--began to concentrate on training its special operations soldiers in techniques that could be used in international peacekeeping missions and other military operations other than war (MOOTW), where close combat would be necessary but force was not required to be lethal.

Shortly after General James L. Jones, commandant of the Marine Corps, took office in the summer of 1999, he ordered a study done on the possibility of having all Marines train in a martial art such as Aikido or Taekwondo. During his service in the Vietnam War, Jones had seen Korean Marines practicing Taekwondo, and thought that martial arts could be useful in operations other than war. Jones idea was a martial arts system that that could be used in any environment, terrain or situation. He also wanted to combine combat training with rigorous physical conditioning, mental discipline and character-building.

After the study ran in the spring of 2000 at Camp Pendleton, California, the MCMAP was established, with its headquarters at the Marine Corps base in Quantico, Virginia. According to Marine Corps Order 1500.54, which established the MCMAP, the program was a synergy of mental, character, and physical disciplines with application across the full spectrum of violence. Its first director, Lieutenant Colonel George Bristol--an experienced fighter with black belts in Judo, Jujitsu and Karate--gave the program its motto, One Mind, Any Weapon.

As part of their training, MCMAP fighters are required to study history's great warrior cultures--the Spartans, the Apaches and the Zulus. Though the MCMAP system combines aspects of many different martial arts, it focuses less on the traditional movements and more on techniques designed to work in actual close-combat situations. The moves are adjusted necessarily to better suit the fighters: soldiers clad in helmets, armed with M-16s, bayonets, and knives, and carrying heavy packs and flak jackets. Specific techniques learned in training include bayonet and knife thrusts, choke holds, eye gouges, and leg sweeps. MCMAP fighters proceed through a belt system, beginning with tan and advancing through grey, green, brown, and on to six different levels of black.

[vasmkd 12]

Not that much of an issue for me but i wouldn't mind hunting a pig/animal with a knife if shooting them gets boring haha.

I can see fun in knife fight in multiplayer, don't know how long it will last

[Prydain 1]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=77977&page=15

Thats all you kids need.

[Comanche3G 10]

Knives should DEFINITELY be implemented, along with enemy AI hiding inside of buildings. I hope this gets addressed in Operation Arrowhead or a mod is released. Infantry inside a bilding can be devastating, and I used to carry a knife in Tikrit back in '03, so yeah, soldiers still use knives. It's rare in an age where firearms are prevalent, but it happens. Take the example of the Battle of Fallujah where a Marine shanked an Iraqi Insurgent in a stairwell like three times in the head before the guy ran away bleeding and screaming! Everyone's anus must have been the size of a singularity when that went down! We kept in mind during raids that if someone got too close for comfort, we would, "barrel check" them. This is a simple thrust of the gun barrel to the sternum. I don't think it should be delayed as an "action" either, as it never takes me too long to punch someone in the face. Hey, why not implement punching as well? I also think there should be a slight auto aim at short ranges to account for the natural ability for humans to point at things close up which is not replicated very well in video games along with sense of smell, spatial recognition of sound, and peripheral vision. All these natural abilities of human beings factored in immensely on every mission I was ever in. Arma 2 does an excellent job in the peripheral vision department, however, replacing those lost senses with in-vehicle radar blips and an odd faint circular gleam from distant vehicles and even infantry.

[sidhellfire 0]

Knives should DEFINITELY be implemented

You're DEFINITELY wrong. Another useless feature, as mounted flashlights for CQB which is absent in this game.

And please, people. Stop bringing extraordinary situations. Knife is useful tool, but illness took out more enemies than that piece of blade. Probably even more enemies got choked to death than got stabbed in war area. Shall we now request a heart attacks, because of constant stress of enemies?

What's next? Horseback riding? Since soldiers do learn that too!

Seriously, people. You cannot even sneak up in this title.

Wasting developers time when so many important things are awaiting fix/improvement...

[ProfTournesol 956]

You're DEFINITELY wrong. Another useless feature, as mounted flashlights for CQB which is absent in this game.

And please, people. Stop bringing extraordinary situations. Knife is useful tool, but illness took out more enemies than that piece of blade. Probably even more enemies got choked to death than got stabbed in war area. Shall we now request a heart attacks, because of constant stress of enemies?

What's next? Horseback riding? Since soldiers do learn that too!

Seriously, people. You cannot even sneak up in this title.

Wasting developers time when so many important things are awaiting fix/improvement...

I totally disagree with this, my bad. The more possible features are included in the game by default (as OFP strokegun ability), the more different mods are possible without awfull scripting, particularly historical mods where close combat is useful (Napoleonic, Middle Age etc.).

[SASrecon 0]

Also BIS are the only guys with a motion-capture studio, so it would be much more time-consuming for a modder to do.

Anyway, I'm 50:50 on this one...

[Fox '09 14]

too much trouble, a 7.62x51 to the head works better :D