Latest ArmA2 & ArmA2:OA Press Coverage | NO discussion here!

[nodunit 397]

Well yeah...of coure you see more animation wise, especially since the player never looked anywhere but mostly straight.

Curious what 1:37 to 1:46 wast about..also lol @ the youtuber asking if you can pilot jets when it clearly showed footage of a cockpit..

[4 IN 1 0]

I still wonder how the hell they get a "review" of the game while others only get a "preview" version

[Yoma 0]

The only point i'm trying to make that this whole thread is pointless.

I'll judge the AI when i play the game and not from some video.

If BIS states that they augmented the ai presicion from meters to centimeters then surely it will be better then what we have. After all they didn't lie to us about a single thing as far as i can recall.

Will it be undistinguishable from humans: no way. There is no way that BIS can make a game where the AI passes the Turing test. In fact I'm not too sure that ANYTHING exists that can pass the Turing test even if run on some Deep Blue'ish supercomputer.

When you think about it that would allso not be what people really want. Would you like stuff like teamkilling non-orders following chatspamming idiots in your game? Or would you only want "perfect players". As soon as you only want "perfect players" you'll allways be able to distinguish humans from AI's. Players do stupid stuff all the time. Standing next to an AI where it does not see you (one of the examples of bad AI in Arma2) is something that happens all the time in PVP games. Do you want the AI to simulate going AFK, i never met a single player online that didn't go AFK once in a while.

Trust me: we want enjoyable AI's, not exact copies of humans.

Anyway i'm all in favour of closing this thread as it's totally pointless, unproductive and potentially harmfull to Arma2.

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

Thanks dkd, indeed great find.

Great find dkd,

The gameplay certainly looked a lot better now the game was played by someone who most probably had played OFP before and knew how to use cover, crouch and go prone and not play the game like your average FPS game.

I agree wholeheartedly

[rusty75 0]

Err, isn't the thread originator just guilty of believing something someone else wrote and presenting the original article as a translation to back up his view that the AI aspect of the game 'might' not be as great as he'd thought/hoped?

I was happy enough to discover that review in that magazine and just translated it the best I can because I thought the community might want to see it. Took me 2 hours already. Won't do that again.

Along the way I read all the reviewers' experiences about the AI and I grew more... well yes, disappointed. ("Intelligence?" was really a paragraph header).

Now there are some rude reactions but maybe I was too extreme myself. I have edited the text a bit now. I did wait for this game since 2003 or so; so reading that AI walks straight into open fire, gets stuck behind fences, that did trigger some typing from me.

[Bad Pilot 0]

good play review in PC Gamer mag.

need. arma2. playable demo. now.

[sparks50 0]

good play review in PC Gamer mag.

And you didn't scan it for us? :mad:

:p

[maddogx 13]

good play review in PC Gamer mag.

need. arma2. playable demo. now.

Been hearing a lot of positive stuff about that review. We need some scans! :)

At least it would be nice if someone could summarize any new info the review contained.

[Raptor 10]

Maybe in the preview they said explicit don't scan it for other users. :D :p

hmmm so the week is near to the end and still no new updates.

What do you believe will wait of us in the sections guerrilla and support ?

[Yapab 10]

The base building reminds me of Pandemics "Battlezone" and its successor Battlezone 2... both great games that had first person view with base building and ordering units from top down and in game view, this was back in.... 1998?

However I'm not sure if I like ARMA2 style of game becoming RTS with making money and building bases... well it sure is going to be new! Thanks for video.

[maddogx 13]

However I'm not sure if I like ARMA2 style of game becoming RTS with making money and building bases... well it sure is going to be new! Thanks for video.

That's just the warfare mode. You needn't worry about Arma2 "becoming RTS". Warfare is the spiritual successor to CTI in OFP, which has been quite popular but isn't exactly the only game mode. :)

[cm 0]

ffs just scan the mag already!

Do it for the team!

[Yapab 10]

Thanks for clearing that up MadDogX :) I'm new to ARMA and have heard about Warefare but dont know much about it... it looks interesting but I would probably rather play the campaign without base building.

Although if they had one missions for example... "seize this area, hold and build a temporary base for further expansion" then it would be cool :)

I played with the map/mission editor in OFP1 and it was good fun, I built small bases and made the enemy AI attack while we would hold of a few waves of various types :)

Yapa

[GepardenK 0]

The base building reminds me of Pandemics "Battlezone" and its successor Battlezone 2... both great games that had first person view with base building and ordering units from top down and in game view, this was back in.... 1998?

However I'm not sure if I like ARMA2 style of game becoming RTS with making money and building bases... well it sure is going to be new! Thanks for video.

Ahhhhh battlezone.......one of the few truly great games (together with OPF, freespace, AoE and a few others). Those where the days....

Still, this RTS element in Arma2 is only a small part of the game. There will be lots of mission’s without it. But the great thing about the base building is that it’s a perfect way too really show off what Arma2 is capable off. RTS = large scale battles, something the Arma2 engine is really good at. If you have played warfare from arma1, you will know that this base building really can enhance the gameplay.

Basebuilding is said to come in late in the A2 campaign. As far as I can tell the pacing of the campaing will be something like this:

Linear missions where you must follow every order > linear missions where you are the squad leader > open ended RPG like gameplay with main and sub missions > All out battle where you are the commander of a base (or maybe bases)

The above is pure speculation from me, based on things BIS have told us and a few screenshots an videos I have seen.

Edited May 9, 2009 by GepardenK

[aus_twisted 0]

ArmA is better than OFP, ArmA2 will be better than ArmA, and thus OFP also. FACE IT.

Well in some areas yes and in a lot of others OFP is still better.

OFP

*Tanks dont constantly fly/flip over when hitting each other or a small rock etc

*Tanks and vehicles etc have better AI control in some situations

*AA and AT weapons have far better manual control (manual lock etc)

*Choppers/Planes etc have manual lock for AT weapons, works good for empty vehicles etc

*Planes have full analogue throttle support

Just some things I can think of at the time which really ruin part of the gameplay for me in ArmA

[Crazyfox 0]

No you can't.

A preview version has been sent to game reviewers to review... sorry I mean preview. They have (p)reviewed the preview version and made comments accordingly. Why can't we?

I'd have to say I agree with Mr.g-c.

So far I'm yet to see many new features in Arma2, that weren't in Arma1. Of course the graphics are great, but what can I do in Arma2 that I can't in Arma1, or OFP for that matter?

To pre-empt the "Go and play LoMac/let the mods build it" argument. The more features that come with the game, the better the modifications of said game will be.

I don't think adding the ability to shoot from vehicles, FLIR, FCS (which have all been modded in to Arma1) and a more realistic damage system are either beyond BIS's ample capabilities, nor too much to ask from the third instalment of OFP.

The less people expect of Arma2, the less they'll get.

You can't comment on the ai until you play the game, or someone showing you how it work. You have no clue about how they programmed it by watching some small footage. And alot of the comments on the ai are made from people that don't know how programming games works.

BIS have already stated that it's the one single thing they have put down most work on, so all those comments are unnecessary.

I'm getting tired of these "the ai sucks balls" threads.

People that don't get the basic principles of ingame ai say the worst things just because they are used to fully scripenhanced crap that looks like it's AI but rather is AS (advanced scripting).

Show me any other game where you can drop a couple of opposing squads in the editor and they fight it out dynamically like in OFP, Arma and most likely Arma2 and then you may have a point. Sure it's not perfect, but it's DYNAMIC. In fact it's a lot more AI and on a bigger scale then any other game out there i've come across.

Also if one has never played Arma (patched up, yep it's a continous process) one cannot compare OFP ai to Arma's ai. I personally think

Call me a fanboy if you like, but just prove me wrong with an existing comparable game. Don't compare with dreams, compare with reality.

Well said.

[Balschoiw 0]

Do you really think reviewers jump out of a cake from nowhere ?

I know at least, that german Gamestar reviewer Petra has gone through all of the OFP-Arma-hassle and I still remember her sitting on the floor discussing the Arma-version with me. She was into the subject, very objective and I had to agree that the only thing really working in Arma was the editor. The rest was bugged shit. I am not in contact with her right now but I do know that she´s watching the developement of Arma 2 and DR very, very close and if they deliver a review of the preview version that highlights several or numerous bugs within the version, I DO think that the critisism is justified, well based and justified.

[PsychoPigeon 10]

people are in for a shock(bad shock)

[dkd 10]

Oh nice, you can now see clearly this is February build: 4/2/2009

There I pretty much footage, I hope someone translate it :D

Nothing special, to be honest. I can highlight the main point of the footage:

- you can't be a pilot in preview version, just a passenger

- there are 3 parts in the preview version, they are two training missions and one scenario campaign

- the fist training mission is to seize one small village on island. It's very simple because you don't need

to command anybody, you just supposed to obey your commander leader and fight (it starts at 2:30).

There was one trouble, the speaker says, they couldn't accomplish that mission because they wasn't

able to call for the support to eliminate the BRDM. That script didn't work. They tried to destroy it from

their weaponry and it was successful but nothing happened after that. That was the obvious bug and

the mission wasn’t finished as it supposed to be finished.

- the second mission is more complicate. The player is the squad leader of 4 marines. The main task is

to seize&hold the township which is situated on the mainland part and it have been occupied the enemy

before (it starts at 3:20). The player has to survey the map constantly to give his people the orders properly.

On difficulty level “regular†the gameplay is still hardcore: 2-3 hits and you are a dead body.

It's almost impossible to make a goal without calling for support because the enemies are too strong.

- the most interesting is the part of single player company (it starts at 4:30).

It is very impressive. The good plot, the tasks are not trivial and there are good cinematic effects.

At the beginning you can't control the whole squad you are just machinegunner. The first is a stealth mission.

The radiotraffic too huge and overflow (the very raw thing). The sunrise is the most impressive feature

(6:00). It's coloring the world and make it alive. The second is nothing special, but the third is very interesting.

There are freedom of operation and full control over your squad and also the possibility of changing the member whom you are fighting for (it starts at 6:35). There for the first time you can use the vehicles. In the author’s

opinion the system of order commands is too uncomfortable and complicate, some things don't work properly.

In the forth missions (it starts at 7:40) you are the commander of some squads of guerillas. They couldn’t

accomplish that mission because of the guerillas didn't obey the orders properly. Unusual new feature is

that you can ask a bot for instance about the weather and he might answer you something: "It's normal,

but it is going to start raining".

The whole impressions are most positive, the main troubles are connected with AI and system of order commands.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for bad and poor English with huge Russian accent :-)

Edited May 10, 2009 by dkd

[sparks50 0]

I'm getting tired of these "the ai sucks balls" threads.

People that don't get the basic principles of ingame ai say the worst things just because they are used to fully scripenhanced crap that looks like it's AI but rather is AS (advanced scripting).

Show me any other game where you can drop a couple of opposing squads in the editor and they fight it out dynamically like in OFP, Arma and most likely Arma2 and then you may have a point. Sure it's not perfect, but it's DYNAMIC. In fact it's a lot more AI and on a bigger scale then any other game out there i've come across.

Also if one has never played Arma (patched up, yep it's a continous process) one cannot compare OFP ai to Arma's ai. I personally think

Call me a fanboy if you like, but just prove me wrong with an existing comparable game. Don't compare with dreams, compare with reality.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl?

Granted, they weren't pimping cars and flying helicopters, but on foot they did pretty good.

Edited May 10, 2009 by sparks50

[Scrub 0]

In DKD's translation (thank you for that, very informative), it explained that you couldn't be a pilot, and the Guerillas AI didn't work well.. Sounds like the common issues that have been in the build all along, that BIS has known about for some time. So I believe we will be having a good surprise. Pilot's been a solid position in all vehicles forever, and, IIRC the non-player-group AI isn't quite done yet? We will see though.

[walker 0]

Hi all

LOL

I think scrub and others have not watched Dslyecxi's video. :D Yes you can pilot and it looks fun.

The previewer could not pilot because they were playing the missions and campaign and it had not been unlocked for them as they had not progressed. ;)

It is a preview ;)

As I pointed out in another thread the BLUEFOR AI in the preview was working perfectly, but the OPFOR AI was stupid add to that third person and cross hairs. As both BLUEFOR and OPFOR AI's are the same it is obvious that the game was set to default easy mode, ie BLUEFOR AI skill on medium to high and OPFOR AI skill set to zero and low. Can you remember what it is like to play against the Real Virtuality (RV) AI for the first time?

Remember all those first times having to unlearn: bunny hopping, run and gun Rambo, and invulnerability blaze away stood up in the middle of the street?

Imagine how embarrassing it is for a supposed leet COD4 player to get owned by an AI that does not follow the script and lays down to take aimed shots or worse still flanks you! When you switch from script bots to dynamic AI you have to do a whole bunch of learning. Anyone remember a certain Czech reviewer giving ArmA I a bad review because his supposed leet self got owned by the RV AI?

As I pointed out I think the previewers were playing at easy settings.

I want to see a preview where a player who knows the editor has set up the AI and really tested it in the Mode real ArmA players play.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 10, 2009 by walker
Spelling

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Christ...

I have never seen so much talk about AI in one game before. We can all agree that the AI in the preview version are terrible. Your only choice are in fact to wait for the full version to be released later this month and look for yourself.

[sparks50 0]

The Russian video shows the main menu, revealing that the February press build is 0.74.56031 from 4/2/2009(D/M/Y). This could be an interesting reference later.

This is a Russian article gone through Google translate by Nezhit on armaholic.com comment section. Good to see that that the interface is still "heavy on monster" :D

Black, Russian

Who the game is, probably, remembers that the Czechs from Bohemia Interactive adequately perceived criticism of the "faceless" Armed Assault and the second part tried again to return to normal narrative main characters, as in the first Operation Flashpoint. An attempt can be successful: four of the squad Razor, which we manage in ArmA2, who knows what is not charismatic, but the impression of living people, not just stupid army-men produce. Expressing their individuality through speech the radio at the moment scripting of events, but even this, in general, looks ready reception in hardcore military simulator is very good.

Each of the fighters in the division has its own specialization. One - marksman (roughly speaking, a sniper), and another - gunner support, the third - sanitar, whereas the fourth, politically negro --

commander. Accordingly, the bulk of the playing time we spend on his african-american individuals: while switching to the other fighters at any time, only gang leader has access to the command menu from which you can call and help identify where to run and what to do.

Free to switch between the characters solved the problem with portable arsenal. Need a gun? Instantly "transplanted" into machine gunner and work to suppress. It took to remove someone away? then jump in the skins and aiming for enemy sniper. Naturally, none, and instead prohibits jumping just throw out a full-barrel and get on the battlefield that more to your liking. For example, in the first mission I chose the M4 with a silencer on the AK with the SSA - and the fight was much easier. With partner can do the same - albeit with all the "change" in the Russian designs, with raised deads phone or found in storage boxes. It would be desired.

Not "Flashpoint," but it seems

Plot ArmA2 looks like free variation on the theme of Yugoslavia. So have some hypothetical country on the border with Russia and filled its different nationalities: some want unity, others - of separation, third, the ethnic Russian, accession to Russia, the fourth - do not understand that. As a result, the country's disorder and reel, fight between the factions, and general lawlessness. By the way, despite a direct association in Belarus Chernorus really not hard, if not similar. The first and main part - because of the language used. Although the caption of settlements is very sound of the mother (city Krasnogorsk, village Kamennyi), the local population speaks some Slave, resembling either Czech, or Slovakian.

What specific event in Chernorus pushes NATO to intervene in the Bethe sent is not explained. But something is clearly happening, as the game starts with a helicopter detachment Razor boarding the night before "entering" the country "peacekeeping" contingent. The first mission demonstrates the evolution of the series in terms of storyline. The initial goal is simple: you get to the village empty and illuminate the laser-guided next to him the station for the air - to keep the local gangs to communicate inside the country starting on the NATO offensive. But during the exploration area, it appears that the bomb radio station can not be - destruing half of the village. And then we are offered - do so! - Choose: Do we have a risk and deal with the guards, broken generator manually dynamite, or its well in done. That is when we radio-speech embarking offered directly answer, something like "Sure, will do!" and "does not, too risky."

Then even more fun. In the process of mopping up in the village found the two hostages. And in the case of each of us individually, asking whether we want it to save or not. Moreover, when we are saving a woman in a barn, suffering from the battering of bandits, and we still have to select with which the words refer to it in the process of liberation. If welcome her crude, she runs away in fear. In general, the straight role-playing game with elements of combat-sim begins some.

And if you think that this - a limit of dreams and wonder of you again. After another mission ArmA2 unexpectedly suggests a level of freedom. We arrive at the base of NATO troops are already established in the region, visit the Commander, and he immediately gives us a number of tasks: to find a suspect, arrest another, searching in the woods and achieve the remains of local gangs, etc., etc. . And then - complete freedom of action. Here you will access to the arsenal, there you are "Hammer" at the gate, there you are near APC, or even a transport helicopter near the launch site. And yet there you are on a map of action area (several square kilometers) - and that's it. Perform tasks in any order as you like. That is no longer role-playing game, and some solid GTA: drive which will want to, perform what you like.Helicopter, by the way, do not directly manage, but it can dive and just rub on the map to the point where you want to get . You go there and then and taken away. Moreover, when suddenly, after a raid by foot, will want to quickly return to base - again on the map indicates the place where to fly whirligig. And she arrives there soon. It is very convenient and, most importantly, "authentically": to choose which side of the goal board is to come, as then evacuate. But this development does not stop the gameplay. Among the training is management by tanks and helicopters, command of several bands at once and, finally, even the construction of the base! In the case of the latter is given a certain sum of money is an abstract, which on a limited terrain can be "stuck" in the ground defensive positions / bunkers and even the soldier's barrack (thank goodness, the units it does not offer the punch). In short, the gameplay goes in any given absolutely enchanting.

I wish only, to test all the bun in the scene were unable to campaign. Beginning with the fourth mission, Beta noticeably "become gray" and began to fall on your desktop with an enviable regularity. So serious battles, construction and aviareydy left-overs.

And a lot of grenades!

As impressive as soon as you sit down for Armed Assault 2 - this is done as the perception of the world when they look first-person. Jerk the camera while running and changing rack; very realistic slightly blurred outlines of objects far away, use of visual special effects (for example, when rotated, and you begin to look to the sun for the first time all the dark) - all performed perfectly well. Effect of presence is an order of magnitude more powerful than any Call of Duty.

The only thing that the authenticity of the tomb, - the opportunity to switch to a view of a third person, in which the camera rises above occiput of managed fighter. Viewpoint is above the neighborhood seen noticeably better, but still uneven and the corners of buildings and the landscape is looking. In general, realism suffers noticeably. At least aim in this mode just does not work - the virtual position of the sight when they look "outside" is a little displaced, and often does not coincide with the real direction.

What's more impressive is the arsenal of small arms. Here we have, that is, a complete farce - modernization little left field for the amateur. It is clear that the American series of M is everything - authentic collimator, sights, all types of grenades for portable-grenadelauncher, before the outbreak of the flue, etc. But no less a set of proposed and AK! There is virtually all of the good old 47-second and to the collection of "hundreds". Added and "binding exotica "- sniper elethant-killer KSVK and PP" Bison ", and this is not an exhaustive list. Among the options for false weight appears not only the classical PSO, but with hitherto almost never met in computer games collimator Cobra.

For a huge arsenal of adoration ArmA2 in the main menu even brought a special tab where all the stored during the device. There, by the way, you can see not only small arms, but in general all "instruments of war", from the stationary machine guns DSHKM to fighter jet "Harrier", went almost Encyclopedia of modern weapons.

Reinforced Hustle 2

To such as to dilute the snot happy young militarist, and mention about one very important thing, which is destroying a lot of blood chose to play ArmA2. Namely - the interface. In short, it is practically not changed. It's still heavy on monster-like creature-peddling and bureaucratic, as the clerk of personnel department of four years. As of this multi-menu in OFP player get sick, and continues to ArmA2. They seem to have tried to complement the context bit pointer, but it helps the little - the size of the cursor, this huge, that clinging is the closest facility. And a fighter is sent to take the position away, can not jerk it, which showed, as in, say, the car in the neighborhood. In short, to lead men to the card more convenient. But this had to sacrifice the vision of the situation on the battlefield "alive."

More trouble at the stage of the beta version delivered and AI. Mate sometimes get stuck in the ground and technology, and sometimes pass by the enemy, pretending that no one sees (the enemies, by the way, meet the same). There has been a chronic failure to comply with orders and: like everything, has won an interface completed digital buttons solo shot to ward specified radish - but he did not shoot, even if you crack. But since this is a beta, yet it is hoped that the release AI put to the right place.

It's time to take stock of and experience. If you just briefly - it's good. If you are deployed - it's good that the initial fears about Armed Assault 2 is not true. The game does not look "dry guidance on small case", as in the previous part. Here is the plot, there is a very deep layered gameplay, all of which add-ins in the Bethe considered even plainly, and did not have researched the world, which allows plenty of drive and fly. On the whole, wait ArmA2 worth. Especially if you're tired of the corridor shooter, and want the game to master and which need to be far more than one week.

Google translations just cracks me up sometimes :D But I think I got the general meaning.

Edited May 10, 2009 by sparks50

[That guy 10]

we can also see the version number in this screen from MeriStation

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/4-arma2_preview_meristation_april_42.jpg

same version

but honestly, i dont see why some of you are so wound up over this preview version. its also obvious that all the previewers a playing on the easies settings. look at all the markers and aids on screen. sure, the AI are no match for the human players, and probably for a long time, never will (on equal terms that is). but even core AI does not change from ArmA1, even the addition of non-forward movement and centimeter precision will increase the AIs combat efficiency tremendously.

also remember that BIS has to code AI that will also make it appealing enough for the general public. just imagine the reviews and feedback if the AI had as much common sence as a normal human. a small fire fight would last for hours and hours against even a few foes. sure most of us crazy fools who post on this forum would love that (me included), the general public would not. lets face it, hiding behind a barrier for an hour hearing shots nearby, not being able to move or shoot can get very very boring if you are not in the right mind set