ODOL Explorer v2.0

[Pathy 0]

But if people like myself, ask them very nicely for permission, and ask them for advice with the respect given to a teacher or colleague, then I think most addon makers will not have a big problem.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Exactly, im just saying removing the save option forces that respect to be given, because they have to email for the MLOD.....

[miles teg 1]

Pathy... read my posts as well.  You seem to be stuck on the idea of using this tool just for learning.

For me this tool's usage as a learning tool is a secondary benefit.  I simply want to edit other people's addons with their permission as a time saving way of quickly adding appropriate vehicles and units to the Lost Brothers Mod as I simply do not have the time nor the skill to develop them from scratch.  

The quality of the units will be no worse then what the original was. Even if I left out some of the scripts the original had, this is fine, as then the original is still better, but my mod is left with a solid addon that is approriate for the countries that our mod covers.

I have no problem yelling praise to the high heavens for the original addon makers and making sure that they recieve the proper credits.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Just to make my point, I'm not against this tool being used, but I think rules need to be applied. These need to include getting permission before editing, and always giving credit. If/when i use another addon maker's textures/models/etc, I'll not think twice about giving credit to them, becuase that's where the credit is due. Leeching off others'  is morally wrong.

I don't think this is specific to this tool anyway, the ability for people to steal other's work (by steal i mean take without seeking permission AND crediting) and release them. But this tool is making it easier, and as such it relies on people to use it properly more.

[Acecombat 0]

Ok Pathy once again i reiterate whats the use of it?

Why wouldnt you give your model IF someone asked you politely? Can you think of reasons? I simply cant , PEOPLE who want it obviously WANT to edit or make it better or re-use for their own MODS so they save duplicating the same thing again and again.

NOW i ask myself why do you need permission for this when its by default YES , unless you act like a stuck up person and judge giving away models by PEOPLES NAME AND EMAIL addys

[Shadow NX 1]

You still should think about the fact that the addon maker wants to have a bit control over his work, as example i again take RHS... FDF and CSLA received stuff from us in exchange they might help when we have probs with something or give us stuff we need.

If we give our models/textures to everyone you would have a fllod of the same addon with tiny parts changed, so i rather say handpick the few who you think are able to make something decent from your work...

[Acecombat 0]

Wrong again as i said , people wont change one part and re relase it and no one will host such d/lds the community here is well groomed IMO , no one would want such a product.

I'd rather get a finished product from the guy who made it rather then 1000 unknowns. Besides there arent plenty of people who know how to make such stuff such as your T-55s and their intricate scripts and so on.

This is a useless point here.

[bn880 5]

I dont know, there are a few people who cant accept there is ZERO learning value from adding a save option. Anything you learnt from this tool could have been learned off a previous version without the save option. And even then, all the tool does is show thats somethings been done, not how it was done.....a tute describing HOW to do it is way better, and there are plently of tutes already about.....

I don't accept this conclusion because it is wrong. Saving option lets you modify and try out changes, if it works properly. Therefore adding a lot of learning value

This is a pointless debate, all other work is viewable and modifiable, so... BIS and maybe Codemasters has the _only_ say about this now. We know already OFP won't die with editing tools being released.

[h - 169]

Quote[/b] ]Hater, try reading the license agreement.....

That's why I 'said' correct me if I'm wrong...  

But still, the agreement only talks about the Program (just to keep the flames going   )

Quote[/b] ]but I think rules need to be applied. These need to include getting permission before editing, and always giving credit. If/when i use another addon maker's textures/models/etc, I'll not think twice about giving credit to them, becuase that's where the credit is due. Leeching off others'  is morally wrong.

Absolutely.

I'm not supporting thievery either.

Also I wouldn't fear too much of 'rippers' since it's not so easy to edit an existing model for your own purposes if it includes heavy modifications on the structure, so that you need to tear down a part of the model...

Nah, I won't bother with this anymore...

Somebody likes the sister, somebody likes the mother, and somebody likes neither one...

And now, does anyone have a BRDM-2 model I can get with textures and a permission to use && modify a bit??

(I'm not kidding btw... I don't dare to modify BIS models because I would get shot apparently... )

[Shadow NX 1]

Wrong again as i said , people wont change one part and re relase it and no one will host such d/lds the community here is well groomed IMO , no one would want such a product.

I'd rather get a finished product from the guy who made it rather then 1000 unknowns. Besides there arent plenty of people who know how to make such stuff such as your T-55s and their intricate scripts and so on.

This is a useless point here.

You have your opinion i have mine and i guess mine wont change much cause its based on facts.

Ok that again may be facts only in my view so whatever, everyone can think what he wants... like i said useless to discuss about spilled milk whats done is done.

"Besides there arent plenty of people who know how to make such stuff such as your T-55s and their intricate scripts and so on"

Possibly but so far all other russian tanks i saw werent that nice, and hell we can be proud of our babies they have used so much time in development and were changed a lot till we were really satisfied with them, a comment like yours sounds bit like disrespect....

Btw remeber you were appliing as mission maker for us, was that only for fun if not contact me plz

[BraTTy 0]

I forgot to comment about what I read earlier.

That the pre-public beta O2 team thought that O2 shouldn't have been released to the public and would ruin OFP of some sort.

I can't believe they thought that and it explains some of the feelings here.They were so wrong and what were they thinking.I would have never gotten O2 otherwise.And I had no prior 3d modelling experience and couldn't join that beta team.But how wrong they were.O2 was the best thing to me for OFP.And without it I surely wouldn't be here now (when O2 was releaed public,I only had a unauthorized acct on these forums and could only post in general and off topic I think it was)

When O2 was released I got my acct authorized so I could post here.

[[aps]gnat 28]

From bn880

Quote[/b] ]We know already OFP won't die with editing tools being released.

Exactly ....... if BIS and Codemasters surrounded the whole thing with barbwire ..... OFP wouldn't still be the game it is now.

From Footmunch

Quote[/b] ]So far, no one has stolen any p3d files of mine - this may be a comment on the quality of the models themselves, or it _may_ be that there aren't large packs of 'rouge' addon-

makers who are just waiting for their chance to 'pervert' the

work of others.

Agree ...... all sounds closer to scare mungering and paranoia ....

The "natural selection" of a good Community will permiate in the end I thinks.

oh well ....

[Dwarden 1125]

Man i'm in 50% of reading this thread and not happy with all what come out ...

but let say this lot of people argue with:

there is not enough scripts / mlods and other STUFF to look at , learn from and and SO ON ...

so what really FlashPoint Resistance or better to say FlashPoint 2 mod community needs?

It's something like Epic done with UT2004, massive ammount of Dynamic Tutorials, Training videos and other utils, very detailed and UP TO DATE documentation.

That mean many free MLOD models and scripts with last known abilities of OFPR/OFP2 and extremely detailed docs ...

Ya i know, we have OFPEC and many utils and docs from BIS but still there is lot of space to improve ...

If someone want steal Your models badly, he will HIRE someone to crack thru ODOL>MLOD or do it self and nothing will stop him.

For these moments laws about copyrights are Your only friend.

This include example anyone taking Your model and converting it INTO any other game or mod, IF you not wish this to happen, make sure Your work (alpha/beta/anything) include licence agreement.

I'm myself enough honor to ask always about borrowing someone else stuff and most of people are same. Of course we can forget to ask, it can happen but for that exist apologizes and "now i need made idiot from me situations".

The bad guys will find way always to obey such questions/permissions and it's not about this tool, it's about people behaviour, rules, honor and law.

I'm sure this tool will help many of these HONOR people in community to improve theirs work w/o crossing that thin red line of bad behaviour.

And maybe these of worried addon makers will find this tool helpfull as soon someone send You bug report WITH exact detailed information how fix / improve something and shocking revealed by feared util ...

Leaving for other game or such is just excuse because nobody can 100% gauarantee security of Your models, textures or scripts.

I believe gains outcome any losses ...

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hater, try reading the license agreement.....

That's why I 'said' correct me if I'm wrong...  

But still, the agreement only talks about the Program (just to keep the flames going   )

And thats why i corrected you

Miles, and you would have a problem emailing the addon maker, say, using your example, the Lost Brothers Mod, for the model and asking permission at the same time? Your going to have to email them for permission anyway

Ace, you are half reading my posts again

Quote[/b] ]Why wouldnt you give your model IF someone asked you politely? Can you think of reasons? I simply cant , PEOPLE who want it obviously WANT to edit or make it better or re-use for their own MODS so they save duplicating the same thing again and again.

NOW i ask myself why do you need permission for this when its by default YES , unless you act like a stuck up person and judge giving away models by PEOPLES NAME AND EMAIL addys

I said id probably give my model if someone asked politely!!! READ THE POST!

And on your logic, permission is automatically yes, so i can go out an edit any addon out there and not have to ask for permissions. ARE YOU CRAZY? You are disposing the entire "asking for permission" system in this suggestion. Everyone else in this thread still acknowledges permission is required!

If not, then ive been waiting for HYK to say yes or no to editing his 1985 units into Colombian soldiers.....by your logic, i assume the answer is yes and go and do what i like to his addon...is that right? (actually, maybe you are right, maybe i dont need to wait for permission...(that i probably wont get anyway) )

And also, for instance, say im making something, im gonna release a 1.0, later im going to do some reskins, add some new versions, ect. Do you honestly think i want someone updating my addon at the same time I'M updating it? There are good reasons why permission at the very least needs to be asked, even with ODOL explorer out.

And personally, as ive said about 8 times already, im not scared of thievery, as:-

One, my addons arent really that good, although i have had the occasional request for external use, like with my M82,

Two, most people respect it if you say "no, you cant use this addon"

Three we can spot them in an instant, anyway

I am especially happy about making little things that ensure an addon is yours. However, as long as the next ODOL_explorer doesnt filter out hidden faces ..........

I just dont see the justification for this.......

[Acecombat 0]

@Shadow

Quote[/b] ]Possibly but so far all other russian tanks i saw werent that nice, and hell we can be proud of our babies they have used so much time in development and were changed a lot till we were really satisfied with them, a comment like yours sounds bit like disrespect....

Disrespect ? Am i reading this right?

I complimented your addon bud its the other way round. The T-55 pack was one of the best soviet tanks release apart from Sigmas T-80 pack. My point was models only do not make a addon extensive testing , Complicated scripts and sounds and all other extras make it something special aswell , these things are unique to you and your team so theres no need to be scared that someone tomorrrow will edit Sigmas T-80 and beat you to it , because they cant.

As for the mission job i am busy with Rude Dogs bradleys atm , i promised him a few. I'll talk with you on msn about it.

@Pathy:

Quote[/b] ]You are disposing the entire "asking for permission" system in this suggestion. Everyone else in this thread still acknowledges permission is required!

YES pathy its as simple as that didnt yuou read this LINE:

Quote[/b] ]PEOPLE who want it obviously WANT to edit or make it better or re-use for their own MODS so they save duplicating the same thing again and again.

READ IT CAREFULLY

An alien who wants to invade Earth wont send you emails asking perm for the Model or Bush wont ask you for the model before attacking syria , A PERSON who wants to edit the model WILL ask you and he will have a VALID reason for it PEOPLE dont just open up O2 for funs sake and start editting models in it , NO ONES got that extra TIME

ITS SIMPLE as that , UNDERSTAND NOW?

So my statement still stands correct. By default the answer should be YES , unlesss as i said you have issues with the person like : " oh i dont think your worthy enough to have my model' " , " no please you look like new around here sorry you cant have it ".

And EVEN if such a person whos skills are crap gets hold of the model and he edits and releases how long do you think his work will last out here in such a competitve envoirnement? I dont think people will even bother hosting it , so whats the paranoia for i ask myself again.

And yes if you want to you can ask HYK permission but obviously he'll give it you since you want to us it for OFP as a nonprofit addon so i DONT see any reason why HYK wont give you permission , CAN YOU ?

Talk about explaining the obvious

[T J 0]

To me, releasing a tool like this, is like handing out loaded guns to a whole crowd of people you dont know, with the warning "You'll be in trouble if you shoot somebody!".

In other words, why make it easy for people to do something that is undesirable?

I have no models to 'protect', I dont speak on behalf of models made by BAS members, and heaven knows I have a HDD full of MP3's and assorted other "obtained" products, so dont take it that I have a self-righteous "pay for what you get" attitude.

The "elitist" claims are disappointing too, as well as being ridiculous. Those proclaiming the "end of elitism" are betraying an envious attitude, which is obviously only a detriment to the community. If only what goes on BEHIND the scenes was known, instead of what players THINK happens, then these ignorant claims would be dispelled.

The fact is that there has been major co-operation and sharing of BIS models behind the scenes, and also hours of inter-mod discussions and assistance sessions. No elitism by P3Edit users that I have seen, rather the opposite, taking time out to help other mod teams wherever possible.

Of course every team wants to produce a "first" for OFP, or a new standard of addon, be it texture, model, or script wise. SO of course there is going to be some keeping of findings close to the chest, so that the endless hours of effort can have some very small reward when a couple of end users mail you and say "Hey! Thanks so much for X factor, it makes OFP great". Is that elitism? Or rather justifiable pride in ones work?

Back to ODOLExplorer. My original question, still unanswered satisfactorily, was what is the benefit of a save to MLOD option. I know what I would personally say to defend ODOL Explorer, but strangely no-one has said that yet.

Perhaps a better route to follow for WRPTool team would have been to follow BIS example.

<Interupts, did you ask BIS/CM opinion before releasing btw?, I mean, thats just common courtesy?>

BIS decided to release O2 to select MOD teams in the first instance, and this to encourage the production of quality addons from those with purpose and dedication.

And lest not beat around the bush, with the exception of a very few addons, the mods and addons that have really made a difference to OFP wholesale, are those produced by teams. And as I mentioned before, most teams are more than happy to 'recruit' willing learners, most of us started that way.

With a little more thought, and I have to say, respect for other peoples wishes, the WRPTool team could have really enhanced the mod team aspect of the community, encouraging and motivating those who would like to get more involved to really get stuck in and take the plunge. By delivering the tool to those teams and individuals with a proven track record, they could of really enhanced the addon community. Maybe its not to late to do that if a version is released that fixes the geo lod issues.

As it is I have heard several times now, "Ohh, I didnt know all about the different LODs in the models before ODOLEX came along",

Well you could have done that from the very first release of O2.

So finally, and directly at the WRPTool team, how about that idea? You release the fixed tool freely to those teams and individuals who have proven dedication to the community, where it can be of real use and a genuine benefit, and where the discussed fears will logically be kept to a minimum. Please think about and discuss this idea.

As it stands, the loaded guns have been handed out, and we have no idea where they are, or when and how damage will be done with them.

TJ - Over and Out.

[miles teg 1]

Hmm.... well all of this may be a moot issue. It's not working for me. I tested it out on several addons and it screwed up the models when I tried compressing them back into .pbo format again. Is this the "weight" bug? If so, its pretty much unusable for what I planned on using it for.

Oh well.

Oh..and to Pathy, yes I can just ask different addon makers for the .pbo file, but some never get back to me, and others take a loooong time time getting around to sending me a link to the file as they have to find a secure server to stick it on if they don't want anyone else using the unbinarized version.

In other words it can be a real hassle for them to provide the unbinarized file unless through a direct connection like through MSN, ICQ, ect...

Anyways, until this tool is fixed up a bit I'll just ask the addon makers for the unbinarized model if I need it.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Shadow NX 1]

Disrespect ? Am i reading this right?  

I complimented your addon bud its the other way round. The T-55 pack was one of the best soviet tanks release apart from Sigmas T-80 pack. My point was models only do not make a addon extensive testing , Complicated scripts and sounds and all other extras make it something special aswell , these things are unique to you and your team so theres no need to be scared that someone tomorrrow will edit Sigmas T-80 and beat you to it , because they cant.

Ok i must say sorry here, somehow i got the statement wrong... my bad english again  

[dinger 1]

Speaking as someone who does know "what goes on behind the scenes", I think that some folks don't understand what "elitism" means.

Elitism is simply the use of discriminatory attitudes and practices towards individuals and groups based on one's perception of the merit of those individuals and groups.

So, a couple of examples of elitism:

+Saying something along the lines of "we go out of our way to help the less prominent addon makers, therefore there's no need for them to have access to the means of improvement outside of us." The person making such a statement is defending an unfair distribution of resources by appealling to his own generosity. They don't need to learn on their own, because we provide.

+

Quote[/b] ]

With a little more thought, and I have to say, respect for other peoples wishes, the WRPTool team could have really enhanced the mod team aspect of the community, encouraging and motivating those who would like to get more involved to really get stuck in and take the plunge. By delivering the tool to those teams and individuals with a proven track record, they could of really enhanced the addon community. Maybe its not to late to do that if a version is released that fixes the geo lod issues.

"proven track record"?

The people I like to bank on are those without a "proven track record", but with the obvious energy and talent to do great things. That being said, I think that all who want to should have equal access to the tools and the skills necessary to improve their abilities in OFP.

I find it all pretty amusing. Tons of simulations have had these kinds of tools available to much larger publics, and the "3d model theft" issue hasn't been a major source of problems in any of them. Go check out all the MSFS sites out there and see how much whining there is about stolen 3d models, compared to the general volume of stuff produced.

I suspect there's on thing a lot of the "anti-Odol explorer" crowd share with their potential thieves: the notion that main reason to make addons is the prestige and admiration of the community. And frankly, it doesn't make sense that someone who steals a model is going to be loved by the OFP community at large. It hasn't happened in the past; it won't happen now.

[Bobcatt666 0]

Well tools out so even if it wasn't openly released it be bounced around like 3dedit secretly, kinda @recycling if stuff is nice. Only time is gonna tell, mostly just gonna freeze production on most of the high end addons and wait and see what happens. Mostly the argument is folks being free to not have to contact the addon maker who made the first addon to get permission to release, the rest go one about if privately exploring the model to go thats how they did it. In the business world its called 'trade secrets' so yeah, most addon makers are annoyed they spent months to years on a addon to make it. Some went into amajor undertaking, I recalls having to hale some annon makers recoring sounds of some of the combat vehicles taking photos in the passenger compartments and such just so their addon gets to be a bit more authentic.

The ofp community does pretty well self policing itself, so kinda addon makers should really fret a whole lot. The theives are gonna steal things no matter what ya do. Like any other proporty, can show it off or lock it way and not allow it to be seen. Personally I fear that a lot of the really nice stuff I've been waiting on to come out are now gonna get halted as well.

Already see a bunch of addon makers leaving the community because of this which sucks, guess making things easier and faster is the normal course of things but will we see massyly produced addons of low quality pumped out now. An addon is far more than just a good looking model. all the other crap like lods, cpps, scripts, and texturing. Well time to move on, at least.. No use over moaning over spilled milk, the elite tool maker might get his tool hacked and be in the position og the addon makers. I have faith in karma.

[Nagual 0]

Ya know ya got me wondering bobcatt, if the WRPtool team would post all the source code of all their tools for download, and if not, why not? hehe

[T J 0]

Speaking as someone who does know "what goes on behind the scenes", I think that some folks don't understand what "elitism" means.

Elitism is simply the use of discriminatory attitudes and practices towards individuals and groups based on one's perception of the merit of those individuals and groups.

So, a couple of examples of elitism:

+Saying something along the lines of "we go out of our way to help the less prominent addon makers, therefore there's no need for them to have access to the means of improvement outside of us."  The person making such a statement is defending an unfair distribution of resources by appealling to his own generosity. They don't need to learn on their own, because we provide.

The people I like to bank on are those without a "proven track record", but with the obvious energy and talent to do great things. That being said, I think that all who want to should have equal access to the tools and the skills necessary to improve their abilities in OFP.

I find it all pretty amusing. Tons of simulations have had these kinds of tools available to much larger publics, and the "3d model theft" issue hasn't been a major source of problems in any of them.  Go check out all the MSFS sites out there and see how much whining there is about stolen 3d models, compared to the general volume of stuff produced.

I suspect there's on thing a lot of the "anti-Odol explorer" crowd share with their potential thieves: the notion that main reason to make addons is the prestige and admiration of the community. And frankly, it doesn't make sense that someone who steals a model is going to be loved by the OFP community at large. It hasn't happened in the past; it won't happen now.

Dinger, you know I respect you, but I wont let that pop go unanswered.  

As one individual who has HAD P3Edit for quite some time, allow me to explain. I was given the tool on the strict understanding that it didnt go any further. And I respected that. However, many times other addon makers came to me and said "I could really use the MLOD for X model". And in each and every case, I provided that MLOD where it was in my power. (P3Edit didnt always work). This I did without discrimination. Actually I have a big folder on my desktop full of the files I have provided and who to. My opinion WAS and IS, that If I could have the MLOD, well then so could Joe Bloggs. What I couldnt do was hand out the tool itself, I know various individuals decided to do so, But I was asked not to, so I didnt.

EDIT: > I NEVER shared or even opened others models, only BIS. Need to make that clear.

So is that elitism? The facts speak for themselves. If you have dealt with somebody who had a different attitude, well then perhaps they need to examine their motives.

I dont understand your second point? I suggested following BIS example and providing in the first instance to those with a proven record, but you say that you bank on those without a proven track record?

How would their "obvious energy and talent" be evident, if they had not works to prove themselves?

If thats really how you feel, then I have a fantastic business proposition for you. Simply forward me Å1000 and I can almost guarantee you I will make a killing on the stock market for you. I've never dabbled before but i'm very keen, and how hard can it be, right? See the point?  

If producing addons was just to gain admiration and prestige, then nobody would do it.

Make no bones about it, quality addons are not because of P3Edit, and nor will they be because of ODOLEX. They are the result of hours and hours and hours of blood sweat and tears, and a fully commited individual or team. You of all people know that.

And for the last time, this is about more than stealing models, Or are we supposed "protesters" the only ones who can see a principle when it is waved in the air?

TJ

[Pathy 0]

Ace your not making sense....im thinking maybe its a language barrier thing, as you are now condradicting yourself If he makes sense to anyone else, someone else please explain what hes getting at.

I mean, first, despite me previously saying "if someone is polite enough to email me for an MLOD it give it to them anyway,", he comes up with

Quote[/b] ]Why wouldnt you give your model IF someone asked you politely? Can you think of reasons? I simply cant , PEOPLE who want it obviously WANT to edit or make it better or re-use for their own MODS so they save duplicating the same thing again and again.

Well, duh, ive just SAID that i wouldnt deny someone who asked politely for the model, and "if a person wants it they want if for a reason"...no shit sherlock, they dont just want to sit it on thier hard drive and admire the file name do they

Then your next passage basically says, "hey guys, lets assume that most addon makers would give you the model anyway, and if they dont, they are assholes!"

Quote[/b] ]NOW i ask myself why do you need permission for this when its by default YES , unless you act like a stuck up person and judge giving away models by PEOPLES NAME AND EMAIL addys

Well, so you are saying that i no longer need to contact the addon maker and ask for permission because i ASSUME that the default answer will be yes anyway?

And that if an addon maker says "no you cant have the model", that they are stuck up? Oh cmon show 1) some sense, 2) some respect for people who can model, because i know from Nomad days, you cant model for shit Ace, so show some bloody respect. Also where is this idea come from that an addon maker will turn down the grant of his MLOD due to

Quote[/b] ]issues with the person like : " oh i dont think your worthy enough to have my model' " , " no please you look like new around here sorry you cant have it ".

. Ace what planet are you on? Maybe Mars with those Aliens you were incoherently babbling on about?

Howabout the addon maker has future updates planned on thier model, or how about the addon maker just doesnt want to spread his model about just yet for ANY reason.....does that make him the stuck up asshole you think he is? Is that the level of respect for addon makers the community has reached, or is it just Ace that thinks its his right to get any model he asks for?

And then you go onto say that

Quote[/b] ]A PERSON who wants to edit the model WILL ask you

Well why did you say

Quote[/b] ]why do you need permission for this when its by default YES

then, because surely you are saying there, that you dont NEED to ask for permission......

And once again, proves the point you dont read my posts....

Quote[/b] ]And yes if you want to you can ask HYK permission but obviously he'll give it you since you want to us it for OFP as a nonprofit addon so i DONT see any reason why HYK wont give you permission , CAN YOU ?

Well if youd read my post properly youd know that i have already asked but recieved no reply and i was using it as an example of how ridiculous your proposal of assuming addon makers would automatically say yes.

And as for any reason why he wouldnt say yes, well smart guy, tell me why i have no response from him a week after i sent him an E mail and 2 weeks after i sent him a PM on this forum? Maybe its not because "hes a stuck up" (whatever a "stuck up" is), maybe hes planning updates, maybe he feels its too soon to have people editing his work, who knows, but i doubt hes a "stuck up"

Ace stop contradicting yourself, stop trying to patronise me, start reading several times over my threads before posting.

And yes i did read every word of your post twice.

[miles teg 1]

Um...question... has anyone gotten ODOL explorer to actually work properly?  In other words has anyone here been able to save to a MLOD and then try to use that model without that model getting all screwed up???

Try it on some infantry units and see what happens...your units will instantly turn into Salvador Dali-like statues when you put the unbinarized model back into a .pbo format.  LOL!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Lupus-WD- 0]

Back to ODOLExplorer. My original question, still unanswered satisfactorily, was what is the benefit of a save to MLOD option. I know what I would personally say to defend ODOL Explorer, but strangely no-one has said that yet.

I had answered your question before you posted it i think (or at least before i even read it), page #7 :

<<(...) Especially when it comes to normals and face problems which seem to be the weakest point of ofp addon makers.

And now, with odol explorer i can experiment on a lot of addons, and if my experimentations and fixes of normals for private use would lead to some nice result i would as said before submit a fixed model to the authors, which, if they were satisfied with it would relieve them from some unrewarding task and would finally benefit to the community.

Now, for those saying that if one doesnt intend on ripping/stealing some model he could simply ask the mlod. Of course, this would be a lot easier that lots of players flood addon makers with requests for every single mlod they make... not ! (...)

Either you have not read, as you asked the question again and again after, or it is not "satisfactory" to you... so what ? if it's not for you, YOU don't need the ability to save with ODOLEX, but I need it. I have some reasons to believe i am not that unique and other people may need it too without being thieves or anything dishonest.

I must add that even if one isnt going to save an edited/modified version of the p3d, it's easier to study a model in O2 with the ability to move vertices, select faces, see superposed lods than in ODOLEX itself.

Once again, i am very glad that ODOLEX was released and looking forward to using a newer version.

I already edited a lot of different odol models to try and fix some bad faces and normals like these SEB Nam Pack AH-1's :

I of course didnt release them, i only tested to see if the normals were "fixable" (they are) as i did with lots of other addons now, some are not worth the effort some give good results and i might ask the authors for mlod if available and if they'd let me fix the models for them...

Now if they dont want, i still can play my sp games with custom addons that dont glow in shadow because of bad faces or normals for instance.

[pzvg 0]

I haven't had any problems with it miles

<don't worry oh addon "gods" after my last run in with your "understanding and generosity" I won't release jack shit, my addons are for me only>

I love this whole, "we must be able to see if they are worthy of our models" bit, no y'all ain't "Eeeleetist" nossir, not one bit.

I AM NOT WORTHY, BFD, I like to make stuff, and unless ya want to drop on by <and own bigger guns than I do> ya can't really stop that.

From my days in the MSFS mod community, let me share something,

Having a NAME in the community is a GOOD thing, having a big head attached to it is not.

You cannot control anything, and really if you pack up your kit and go from the community, you'll only be hurting yourself, because down the road, folks will do work of your quality, and the only thing remaining of your reputation will be the negatives of your actions.