ODOL Explorer v2.0

[MAA 127]

I agree with TJ's post !

There is no justification for the "save to MLOD" option!

[shinRaiden 0]

The MD5 hashes of binarized ODOL's, the exported MLOD's, and the unchanged re-binarized ODOL's are unique.

In WRPtool opening OFPW wrp's, saving in 4WVR, and then rebinarizing results in differing file sizes, and also re'ID'ing the wrp's objects. You could make a mission that does a getpos on a sample objectID, and if the getpos is 'wrong', you could skip to the mission end and thus 'lock' the mission. 'Fixed' versions would likely not see wide distribution.

As there is a lot that goes into addon development in modeling, configing, scripting, and textures, there are lots of ways and places to hide little watermarks with the official TAG.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you want to keep a monopoly on editing talent that's an excellent idea. Microsoft could learn from you. This kind of thinking hinders new editors getting into the game with no practical benefit to the end user.

Anyone who wants to modify one of our models only has to ask, if loads of people ask i will give them a tutorial on how to do whatever we did in that addon.

People who dont understand what is going on here with some addonmakers hating the idea of seeing wankers rip off addons all over again, and tell the addonmakers to shut up etc etc bla bla bla clearly show some disrespect for different opinions.

If you dont understand, you have most likely never made an addon from scratch, and if you do understand and still tell me and others to shut up you are showing massive disrespect for my and others opinions, in which case i will disregard your opinion likewise.

I can imagine some addonmakers having no problem with this tool, and i will not tell them to shut up, shape up or whatever, i respect their opinion.

Some addonmakers allready announced to quit or stop releasing thanks to this tool.

As someone said before, learning from an addon is fine, but saving it to mlod creates the opportunity for disrespectful tossers to start screwing over the hard work of others again

Oh and you can bet your behind those ppl arent even in here reading this thread.

My opinion on this tool: VERY BAD for ofp modmaking community.

This is my opinion, you guys are gonna HAVE to accept it.

[uiox 0]

Lol Divas are shocking

[walker 0]

Hi all

To the makers of this tool many thanks just what the community needed.

To those who think that binarising protected their work get a licence we all warned you that the only protection your work has is you IP rights which are protected by international law.

The greatest boon this will be is that those who have stolen others work will no longer be able to hide their theft. I wonder how many of those who said binarise protected their work from theft will now be found out. Binarise was allways about improving the speed of pbos not about hiding them. Everyone of the top Mod teams new that binarising and encryption for hiding work content was never an option.

Once again thanks for a great OFP breakthrough tool.

Kind Regards Ian Walker (project Leader for The CoC)

[T J 0]

Well, I sure hope the "Oh so diligent and vigilant" community picks its ideas up.

Because all these promises of spotting stolen work now will be SO easy......riiiight

When SelectThis made a brand shiny new H60 model from the ground up, the eagle eyed community were very quick to thank him for the "BIS Re-hash", or even the "BIS -reskin".

So much for model bits being easy to spot.

The question remains unanswered.......

Where is the justification for a "Save to MLOD" ability?

TJ

[Pathy 0]

OFP is the only game that allows you to make MOD's for it and the possibilities are endless.

Wrong on both counts mate. Lots of other games have modding tools. Counterstrike itself is a mod of halflife.

And the possibilities, sadly, arent endless. Try getting multiple gunners on a helicoper for a start....

Quote[/b] ] If someone could do this in five minutes, I'd be the first to declare him the OFP Addon-Making Messiah.

M21man, in that case Christ has been reborn and his name is Pathy Ok so itd probably be a long 5 minutes, but certainly not the 10-20 hours it takes from conception, to modelling, to texturing, to config and testing, for each model.

Ive still seen nothing here that justifies being able to save to MLOD, whereas the old ODOL explorer was perfect, in that people who wanted to look at an addon could, and be able to learn from it that way, yet it forced people to get permission from the addon maker by the mere fact that, if they wanted an MLOD, they had to email for it. Now, if the addon maker says no, they dont get it ok. But they can still use ODOL explorer to look at it, while they are forced to respect the addon maker. With this new tool, they dont need to email for the MLOD (and thus get permission), they just need to convert it, and away they go.....

SO I WILL CONTINUE BANGING MY HEAD ON A BRICK WALL, you dont NEED a save function to learn off a model. You could be able to edit it, move it, twist it, change the textures on it, resize it, and you would STILL not need a save function.

Stop using the "Noobs need it to learn" argument, its defunct, they cant learn anything more with a save function on this new version! Without a save function they also learned to be self sufficient!!!

Its not elitist, its not about stopping "noobs" (and to call some very promising NEW addon makers noobs is a slur on them) learning to get to our standard, or forcing them to learn the hard way as the rest of us did. Its about the community, and keeping it together......

[Pathy 0]

The question remains unanswered.......

Where is the justification for a "Save to MLOD" ability?

   

TJ

Ever feel like your trying to headbutt a concrete wall?

I do. Ive been making the same point as you have over and over and over, and ive yet to see an answer. People just keep skirting round it.....and usually come back to the "Oh my, i cant learn from a tool WITHOUT a save function on it, OMG, what AM i going to do?".......which is exactly what we've just dissmissed in the prior argument we made......and round and round it goes......with nobody actually answering.......

Oh and by the way, the old school addon makers like myself, learned from tutes and demo models. Now BIS have released a load more models as well, you can now look around ODOLs, and you can ask people nicely for thier MLODs, if that isnt enough, then you probably never will be able to model. Face it, thats life, theres no point hiding away from it.........some people are more skilled than others....i have to face im crap at football, but that doesnt mean i moan about the lack of professional football coaches willing to help me

All those resources, and a save function to ODOL explorer doesnt actually add anything more that isnt already in those resources already..........

[pzvg 0]

Maybe it didn't need a save function,

Trouble is, that's irrelevant.

It's too late, the programs out, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

For those that wish to stop making addons, our loss, your choice, but the community at large will continue, with or without you.

how many changes do you really think you can make to a model anyway? an M1 tank is an M1 tank, most of the varients around now are merely texture work, and ODOL was never a barrier to that.

But anyway, I've pretty much had my fill of the gnashing of teeth that always accompanies ANYTHING not done by some parties, seems to me they'd be better off going into the mainstream market as pros so they CAN copyright their work, instead of making demands in an open community that are not only impossible to fulfill, but ridiculous to contemplate.

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]Where is the justification for a "Save to MLOD" ability?

If I can jump into this rapidly spinning out of control debate, nobody has discussed personal use of binarized addons.  I, for one, would love to add a doohicky or two to my BAS pavehawks and not have to go through the trouble of petitioning (or bothering) the respectably busy BAS people for the inner workings of some of their most precious addons...

But, devils advocate coat on

its not so much that I worry about people stealing other people's addons, I worry that people will start accusing people of stealing.  Although if what Walker says is true, then most addons should be relatively transparent.

devils advocate coat off (note ironic use of plagiarism)  

Let me boil it down to three points of note:

1:  BAS, DKM, RHS, FDF, CSLA, et al, will never lose their esteem in the OFP community.  They have done so much for the game, it is unlikely they will fade into obsolescence.

2:  What makes these addon teams addons so amazing isn't merely the fantastic modeling.  It's the complete package, of which the scripting, texturing, and configs have always been open source.

3:  Its easy to tell the difference between the quality of the Addon studios' work and the lone modder (Suchey and Earl being a notable exception).  If I were to release a tank addon ripped from RHS, the fact that I have yet to release any addons (or have no idea how) would certainly raise a few eyebrows if my work was "RHS" quality...

[Pathy 0]

Actually i believe, but havent experimented, we can still encrypt our addons.

Somewhere in this thread, someone said this tool was like sticking thier fingers up at us "elitist" addon makers.

Well us putting, say, a 128 bit encryption on our addons would be a finger up to whoever said that.........

Sorry, just liked the idea (and the image of all your looks on your faces (like, thinking "omg what an asshole") when you read that)

[T J 0]

Maybe it didn't need a save function,

Trouble is, that's irrelevant.

It's too late, the programs out, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Its not irrelevant, the released version is buggy. Will version 2.1 have the save feature?

[Pathy 0]

Bloody hope not....

[MSpencer 0]

My god, you damn DRAMA QUEENS! Who CARES?! The community will LYNCH anyone who TRIES to steal your models!!!

[Pathy 0]

So, what, do we appoint a police force who go thru the new model checking it against a database of existing models and seeing if its fraudulent?

[One 0]

sign me up, I'd do it for sure.

[Kaliyuga 0]

I had a thought too.. whats to stop anyone from now altering any of the BIS models in their copy of the game to somehow gain an unfair advantage in MP games?

couldn't this happen as a result of this tool as well?  

lol.. and go back and read what Klink pointed out.... BIS models can be put into other games now because of this too?

Maybe that will get BIS's attention to this subject

[Pathy 0]

You dont get payed  

Kali, i dont think theres much model wise that could be done, i dont know for sure tbh, but i image it would just cause conflicts, say if someone added an extra cargo space to a vehicle, on one machine it would try and add, say, 4 instead of 3 people, on the other (unedited machine), it would protest, and probably crash one or the other out......

Im only guessing, i know nothing of MP coding

[Kaliyuga 0]

I can think of a few things that might alter things right off the top of my head...

hit points...fire geometry... mass...

[Pathy 0]

Hmm yes that is true. but it would still have one effect client side and one effect server side, surely, causing a conflict.....

as i said, i dont know anything about MP coding, and you probably know alot    Whatever you says goes.

Guys, just encrypt your addons if you dont want people editing them, or youd prefer people to email you for the MLODs (so you know who is using them)

[Kaliyuga 0]

i'm just speculating man.. i claim to know nothing.. lol

either way.. i dont think its a good idea.. and i'll just leave it at that.. lol

[Tactician 0]

The question remains unanswered.......

Where is the justification for a "Save to MLOD" ability?

   

TJ

Ever feel like your trying to headbutt a concrete wall?

I do. Ive been making the same point as you have over and over and over, and ive yet to see an answer. People just keep skirting round it.....and usually come back to the "Oh my, i cant learn from a tool WITHOUT a save function on it, OMG, what AM i going to do?".......which is exactly what we've just dissmissed in the prior argument we made......and round and round it goes......with nobody actually answering.......

If no one ever used the countType function in OFP scripting, should BIS remove it? When developing software should features be cut just because they're unnecessary or because no one used them?

The answer to your question is, why the hell not? I happen to need MLOD models for animating. The civilian (released by BIS) doesn't have all the selections animated. The demo models (already in MLOD) don't have resistance selections either. Without P3Dedit or ODOL Explorer I have to ask people for MLODs that I don't even intend to edit. What's the point in that? I'd rather not waste bandwidth or space in my email box receiving MLODs when I can do it myself. Why would you take that option away?

[Pathy 0]

Lol ok so we both know nothing, but its bound to be bad either way (conflict or cheat-wise)

[Drill Sergeant 0]

I just wonder what BIS's stance is on this and if it affects

OFP2. ??

[vektorboson 8]

I had a thought too.. whats to stop anyone from now altering any of the BIS models in their copy of the game to somehow gain an unfair advantage in MP games?

This was possible before. BIS fixed this by adding addon checks (those checks are server side options).

And to all people discussing the justification of the converter-part, please read the p3dEdit-Thread. You can read my posts, where I point out the advantages of such a converter.

We now have a converter, some people are lucky, some see the end of the world, so there is no need to discuss this over and over again.

@Pathy

If you feel now like banging your head against a concrete wall, then you know how I felt in the p3dEdit-thread. My question about the long list of model thefts wasn't answered yet. But for sure, now you seem to have some issues. Good evening.