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RozekPoland

17 years old bug in A3 - 'A fallen static objects' geometries bug'

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1 hour ago, teabagginpeople said:

I think BIS have supported arma3  as best to their ability. Did they make some mistakes ? Yes. But look at Dev branch. Pages upon pages. 1000s of man hours. They have gone above and beyond in alot of places that other companies wouldn't for their customers. I feel they genuinely were frustrated by their own inability to get the old engine to do things they knew gamers wished for and they themselves as gamers desired for arma3. 

 

Well, part of those pages are for "alpha", not for the final release.  I agree they added some bonuses, however some of them had to be added to get profits from DLCs they sell, like bipods for sniper DLCs. What I wanted to say is that "broken" or not fully working product is something we, as customers and belivers, helped polishing for free. The Arma3 wouldn't be both such success and great game without wast amount of modders who actually "fixed" the game through making thousands of real life assests. And they are doing it for free as we speak, for themselves, since BI hadn't done that for them. I, as many others, use only the engine and the maps the game has, as no single vanilla weapon or vehicle was used by me in MP environment. What BI should be really proud of, is THAT briliant strategy which helps employing of massive bunch of people to work for them, for free. And no single one of them feels being abused, including me, because there's always free will to do it. So, without this forum and it's participants, the company probably woudn't earn its position in the game industry. And today, they just announced "take it as-is, if you have any problems they are your problems, not ours", not giving a shit to moders' ambitions, needs, plans. Yeah, I haven't changed my mind - it's a real shame but still, I am looking into the future and would love to see some changes in THAT strategy. So my message wasn't directed at workers, as they did everything they could I guess, but at the BI's management who starts to look being quite arogant towards their customers in my eyes. Just saying.

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1 hour ago, NightIntruder said:

 

Well, part of those pages are for "alpha", not for the final release.  I agree they added some bonuses, however some of them had to be added to get profits from DLCs they sell, like bipods for sniper DLCs. What I wanted to say is that "broken" or not fully working product is something we, as customers and belivers, helped polishing for free. The Arma3 wouldn't be both such success and great game without wast amount of modders who actually "fixed" the game through making thousands of real life assests. And they are doing it for free as we speak, for themselves, since BI hadn't done that for them. I, as many others, use only the engine and the maps the game has, as no single vanilla weapon or vehicle was used by me in MP environment. What BI should be really proud of, is THAT briliant strategy which helps employing of massive bunch of people to work for them, for free. And no single one of them feels being abused, including me, because there's always free will to do it. So, without this forum and it's participants, the company probably woudn't earn its position in the game industry. And today, they just announced "take it as-is, if you have any problems they are your problems, not ours", not giving a shit to moders' ambitions, needs, plans. Yeah, I haven't changed my mind - it's a real shame but still, I am looking into the future and would love to see some changes in THAT strategy. So my message wasn't directed at workers, as they did everything they could I guess, but at the BI's management who starts to look being quite arogant towards their customers in my eyes. Just saying.

you probably think I am just content with Arma3. nope I dislike having to use a sound mod(vehicles have no sound beyond 300m ) , I dislike having to use enhanced movement mod should be in base, I dislike having to use a radio mod or Teamspeak.

 

 I wasn't happy with Arma1 issues, but then Arma 2 came along then OA. guess what? I moved on. same with Arma 2 -3. 

 

You cannot seriously  in one breath talk about bad management strategies,

 

Then complain that they have said work is finished on the outdated engine that is retired . to keep working on that engine, you may as well not stop and just piss money up a wall( Bad management strategy). everything that is done on the old engine is more resources taken from the new engine and future work already being done at Bis.

 

 The Devs themselves are too aware of the limitations of the old engine, there are no more resources to keep throwing at it. then fixing that then another fix for that unless you sacrifice moving forward. when does that end?? 

 

 

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NightIntruder

So you're saying you prefer if BI continue to work on improving ARMA3 rather than devote most of their efforts on ARMA4...?

They have said that they are keeping a few people working to tweak ARMA3 for the next year so not exactly abandoning us are they.

 

Hoping they can fix the fallen trees lack of viewblock...

 

I'm glad they're concentrating most efforts to new engine and game for the next chapter in the 'Operation Flashpoint' evolution.

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Naturally, if a new engine is on the horizon, resources  should be devoted to that. But still. Some of the same problems have been around for well over a decade. New features have been added, and some previous problems were solved over the years. But many were carried into new iterations of the engine.I don't see anything unreasonable in mentioning it. Even at this late stage.

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Some bugs have become a tradition of the Arma series. It would be weird without them..

 

Spoiler

Of course I welcome any bug resolving effort :-)

 

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I'd like to see it fixed too but even grenades are not actual physics objects and you can't even break glass window with thrown grenade in this game. Like tradition, not a bug like stanhope said.

 

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On 5/4/2018 at 8:39 PM, oukej said:

Not sure about the FireGeometry - would u block projectiles where a player can walk through?

As RozekPoland said, to prevent AI and players from shooting from inside/through things they shouldn't be able to. I do agree that the fire and view geometry addition to such fallen objects would be good for gameplay.

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Shooting through fallen trees isn't so much of a gameplay issue.

 

AI seeing you through a fallen tree as if it wasn't there IS...

 

(Of course I'd welcome a fix for the physics geometry as well)

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On 09.05.2018 at 2:55 PM, teabagginpeople said:

I think BIS have supported arma3  as best to their ability.

 

What do you see as support? In the infinite DLC that they want to sell?

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2 hours ago, mickeymen said:

 

What do you see as support? In the infinite DLC that they want to sell?

What do I see as support. Maybe staff replying to your endless neverending too late on the scene thread's that you throw up. Constantly pissing and moaning about shit that you should have been saying in beta never mind being wayyy too late in the end cycle of the game.

 

But hey don't stop.

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Well, that's quite interesting that my last comment was deleted. I haven't found anything inappropriate in it so wonder "why" as didn't get warning or message from admin/moderator. That's gotta hurt somebody in BI, I guess.

 

@teabagginpeople I never complained about the game. Actually, I love this game so much that I am almost Arma-only-player for years and been playing the whole genre since the OFP release. I am probably one of the most committed to ARMA fans. I am also addon maker and owner of almost all DLCs the company released (although using only Tanoa from those paid assets). You are completely wrong in this particular case, tho. THIS bug (AI been able to see through fallen trees) was reported years ago. I bought A3 alpha having hopes they will eventualy fix all its bugs. My hopes were ruined recently. One could say that "pissing and moaning" is apparently the only way our community can get bug-free product paid with decent amount of money. But, I am not interested in refunding. I am interested to see our beloved game as perfect as possible. If they really started working on A4, I would be happy however would like to see some "proof", a bit more than pure speculations.

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13 minutes ago, NightIntruder said:

Well, that's quite interesting that my last comment was deleted. I haven't found anything inappropriate in it so wonder "why" as didn't get warning or message from admin/moderator. That's gotta hurt somebody in BI, I guess.

 

 

Your previous post was removed from the thread as it broke our forum rules. 

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I think that everyone will agree that discussing issues by players/modders here is better than discussing them elsewhere -  on FB, reddit, discord, twitter, name it. This way a message may have chance to hit their target and any questions/doubts being addressed by BI staff as well. But, removing messages doesn't help people in understanding both current and future situation, tho. Especially those involved in addon making, who have to plan in advance their next steps in time frame of several months, if not a year (especially truth reg large mods). We need to know whether A4 is upcoming and when as this means that players may start loosing their interest in A3 and its addons very soon. It may render work of many people useless within the nearest future, waste all their commitment to addon making, their work and time and eventually discourage them from working for all of us again when A4 hits the shelves. So, exercising pressure upon BI staff to share their plans/schedule is in the interests of all parties, to include the BI itself.

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Pls, once it's out, try out everything that pops up on your mind that could be a possible side effect.

Also - send BXBX some beers and convince him to stay with the company pls ;)

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12 minutes ago, oukej said:

Pls, once it's out, try out everything that pops up on your mind that could be a possible side effect.

Also - send Bxbx some beers and convince him to stay with the company ;)

 

:icon_dj:

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14 minutes ago, oukej said:

Pls try out everything that pops up on your mind that could have be somehow negatively affected by this.

Also - send Bxbx some beers and convince him to stay with the company ;)

 

Fantastic!

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OMG!!!!!!!!! could it be true.....................................................?

 

(quits work early to check)

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1 hour ago, oukej said:
Also - send BXBX some beers and convince him to stay with the company pls ;)

Please do that, he really deserves it :drinking2:

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54 minutes ago, kllrt said:

Please do that, he really deserves it :drinking2:

Not only does he deserve it but BiS needs him ;)

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What would be a probable ETA for this to hit dev/stable branch?

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This may seem like a simple thing but this is incredibly awesome to me. I've been playing since OFP and this was always something that irked me. Thank you so much for the fix! 

 

20171210131453_1.jpg

 

This a screenshot from a mission my co op group played through a few months back. Everyone was massacred by the AI as we advanced through this nightmare. Thank you, thank you, thank you for fixing this issue I think I love you guys at BI, (in a healthy platonic way).

 

:shine:

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The fix hits the Dev Branch.



At this moment the fix applies to trees only.



I hope @Jakub BXBX Horyna will think it over and apply the fix for walls and fences too :wink_o: The one below would really love to provide concealment & cover against AI :f:
1zkHmVuh.jpg

 

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Very nice!

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I have recorded a video showing the fix in practice.
 


Summary: View and Fire Geometries of fallen trees provide satisfactory concealment and cover.

  1. View & Fire Geometries of fallen trees are equally important for the fix to provide the best experience.
  2. View & Fire Geometries of fallen trees are not 100% precise in relation to graphical LODs. In few words, Players do not see the same world as the AI does.
  3. My concern mentioned in one of the previous posts that View Geometry alone (without Fire Geometry) of fallen tree may not provide the expected result was reasonable. At around 0:30s it can be seen that the AI unit spots the player (knowsAbout rises to 4) who is rolling over behind the fallen tree. If there was no Fire Geometry the player would be dead in no time. Thankfully, working Fire Geometry provides cover for the player who survives.
  4. Thanks to the fix, it is possible to deploy weapons on fallen trees!


I would love to record similar tests with fallen fences and walls :wink_o:

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