Laws of War DLC Cluster Munitions

[DnA 5143]

From the outset the Laws of War DLC was going to focus on assets and playable content. However, there was room to enhance a few existing features relevant to the theme. A bunch of modest improvements to cluster munitions have been scattered over the past few updates (free for all players of course). Let's discuss them in this thread, and as always, please post concrete issues to Feedback Tracker.

• Note: expanded Community Wiki documentation is forthcoming. Most new properties are already described:
  • https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CfgAmmo_Config_Reference
  • https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Weapon_Config_Guidelines#Ammo_changes_on_fly_and_on_hit 

 

What changes does this cover?

• Added: Cluster Bombs (3 factions - see Pylon settings of aircraft)
  • Previously only artillery cluster munitions were supported.
  • Added: Unexploded Ordnance (3 factions x 4 triggers)
    • Trigger types:
      • Common: basically functions as a regular 'mine'
      • Delayed: detonates a while after 'triggering'
      • Tough: takes a lot of manipulation before detonating
      • Sensitive: BOOM (even animals will set these off)
    • These can be placed in Eden Editor, but are also randomly left behind after deploying various types of cluster munitions.
  • The CAS module now features Bomb Strikes.
• Added: APERS Mine Dispenser*
  • This means engine support for a mine that basically detonates like a sub-munition.
  • Deployed mines can now have a randomized rotation.
• Various new SFX / VFX were added, as well as camera shake.
• The engine now supports control over sub-munition speed and ammo type randomization.

* Restrictions apply for those who don’t own Arma 3 Laws of War DLC.

[dragon01 902]

Is the camera shake feature something like @laxemann's Immerse? Basically, a shake whenever there's a powerful explosion nearby (or, in case of really powerful stuff, some distance away).

[DnA 5143]

It's more that it was missing for this type of explosion (even the existing artillery ones), so it was added. Indeed it falls in the category of an explosion being nearby, or a heavy vehicle driving past.

[heavygunner 179]

The AT Mine cluster places M15 mines which is probably not realistic, since they are far to big to be deployed by artillery and they can't insert themselves into the ground like they do ingame now.

[xxgetbuck123 945]

G'day @DnA

 

Still trying to wrap my head around how to get the Mine Dispenser to work, I've tried triggers and I can't find any modules or anything for them. I'm missing something and its in plane sight, mind sharing how to get these working? 

 

Cheers. 

[lexx 1363]

Isn't the mine dispenser just a normal bomb that you place and explode, which then splatters many tiny mines in the area?

[snoops_213 75]

Is the setup for sub ammo the same as it is for artillery? Ie can we set different sub ammo types and the percentage of the mix? Whats the current difference in the cluster bombs? 

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

8 hours ago, xxgetbuck123 said:

G'day @DnA

 

Still trying to wrap my head around how to get the Mine Dispenser to work, I've tried triggers and I can't find any modules or anything for them. I'm missing something and its in plane sight, mind sharing how to get these working? 

 

Cheers. 

 

It's a mine itself, similar to a Claymore.  Place it, detonate and watch as a bunch of AP mines are dispersed.

[Pvt.Reaper 8]

Since I can't find them anywhere else; what are the classnames for the bombs? 

[x3kj 1247]

19 hours ago, DnA said:

Trigger types:

• Common: basically functions as a regular 'mine'
• Delayed: detonates a while after 'triggering'
• Tough: takes a lot of manipulation before detonating
• Sensitive: BOOM

 

 

What does BOOM mean? When common already acts like a regular mine and reacts to infatry, does that mean Sensitive will all 100% explode on impact?

[DnA 5143]

2 hours ago, x3kj said:

What does BOOM mean? When common already acts like a regular mine and reacts to infatry, does that mean Sensitive will all 100% explode on impact?

It requires even less weight to trigger and probably also has a larger trigger area (not 100%, some values may yet be tweaked).

[moricky 211]

The sensitive one gets triggered by any movement (e.g., rabbits), but also by nearby explosions. Think twice before throwing grenades in areas with UXOs.

[x3kj 1247]

Can you describe how the engine even considers the "weight" for triggering? In technical terms config/script side. I was under the impression that (for a regular mine) it just considers distance to infantry, with modifier based on your stance and possibly walking speed. Or do you have to stand directly on the thing to trigger it (because you saying "weight" would indicate that).

 

edit: ok moricky's answer makes more sense. Please keep it that way. "BOOM" as technical description is of no use to anybody.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

3 hours ago, moricky said:

The sensitive one gets triggered by any movement (e.g., rabbits), but also by nearby explosions. Think twice before throwing grenades in areas with UXOs.

 

How will this be affected when animals are local entities in MP environment?

[supercereal4 29]

13 hours ago, moricky said:

The sensitive one gets triggered by any movement (e.g., rabbits), but also by nearby explosions. Think twice before throwing grenades in areas with UXOs.

As I recall, some animals are client side (I think rabbits are one of them, but also snakes). Wouldn't this present a problem in MP as some players won't see the animals about to set on the UXO? I'm not sure how dedicated servers handle animals, but when hosting a listen server I do believe the animals are desynced between host and players.

[snoops_213 75]

Will you teach the AI to use the cluster muntions? I've been testing it and they wont drop bombs(mk82 they do but they always drop well short of the target). And can the new sensors be used on  the  sub muntions to create an guided at rounds? 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, moricky said:

The sensitive one gets triggered by any movement (e.g., rabbits), but also by nearby explosions. Think twice before throwing grenades in areas with UXOs.

I can see APOBS being very useful in that case. I remember ACE 2 had one in OA, with the new mine dispenser box and rope simulation, it should be very doable in a realistic and relatively easy way, comparatively speaking.

[x3kj 1247]

In theory, i should be able to build Artillery Clusterammo that dispenses cluster-dispensers, correct?

>insert "Yo dawg we pimped your weapons, so you can cluster while you cluster." meme<

[da12thMonkey 1943]

On 12/08/2017 at 7:39 AM, (2142)gen.reaper said:

Since I can't find them anywhere else; what are the classnames for the bombs? 

 

Writing in the format

cfgMagazines→cfgAmmo→Submunitions ammo (inc. probability)

 

CBU-85:

PylonMissile_1Rnd_BombCluster_01_F→BombCluster_01_Ammo_F→submunitionAmmo[] = {"Mo_cluster_Bomb_01_F",0.93,"BombCluster_01_UXO_deploy",0.07};

 

RBK-500:

PylonMissile_1Rnd_BombCluster_02_F→BombCluster_02_Ammo_F→submunitionAmmo[] = {"Mo_cluster_Bomb_02_F",0.93,"BombCluster_02_UXO_deploy",0.07};

 

BL778:

PylonMissile_1Rnd_BombCluster_03_F→BombCluster_03_Ammo_F→submunitionAmmo[] = {"BombCluster_03_UXO1_deployMine",0.25,"BombCluster_03_UXO2_deployMine",0.25,"BombCluster_03_UXO3_deployMine",0.25,"BombCluster_03_UXO4_deployMine",0.25};

 

On 11/08/2017 at 6:12 PM, snoops_213 said:

Is the setup for sub ammo the same as it is for artillery? Ie can we set different sub ammo types and the percentage of the mix? Whats the current difference in the cluster bombs? 

 

As shown above from the config viewer snippets, that's how the submunitions seem to be configured, yes

[GuyWithaJeep 82]

Cluster munitions aren't displayed properly in the cockpit displays of Jets DLC aircraft.

 

Black Wasp II

Spoiler

Gryphon

Spoiler

Shikra

Spoiler

But are shown fine in vanilla aircraft.

 

Wipeout

Spoiler

Neophron

Spoiler

 

[Jnr4817 215]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:32 AM, moricky said:

The sensitive one gets triggered by any movement (e.g., rabbits), but also by nearby explosions. Think twice before throwing grenades in areas with UXOs.

How sensitive are these mines then. For example, at what range will another explosion set off another, i.e. every 100 yards, 50 yards, 100 feet? To ask further, if I wanted to set up a chain reaction how far apart could I place several mines in a row to trigger them in sequence after the first is blow?

[reyhard 2082]

9 hours ago, Jnr4817 said:

How sensitive are these mines then. For example, at what range will another explosion set off another, i.e. every 100 yards, 50 yards, 100 feet? To ask further, if I wanted to set up a chain reaction how far apart could I place several mines in a row to trigger them in sequence after the first is blow?

it's more dependent on the explosive itself rather than UXO. In game it's configured to be extremely fragile to any explosion (let's say it's i.e. armor=1), so any explosive nearby will trigger it. Different explosives have different range (indirectHitRange in cfgAmmo) so it's not easy to answer that question. Best you can do is checking one by one with in game config browser.

 

Of course, you need to take into account how explosions works in Arma so don't be surprised that UXO wasn't triggered because maybe it was covered by some piece of geometry from other object. Let me know if there is still something unclear in this subject

 

On 14.08.2017 at 6:19 AM, GuyWithaJeep said:

Cluster munitions aren't displayed properly in the cockpit displays of Jets DLC aircraft

Thanks for spotting this - fix should be available on devbranch soon.

[pttn40 15]

@DnA I have to say I’m really liking the UXO concept right now. Having to consider UXOs adds a new layer to planning airstrikes that I really like.

 

I am wondering though if it is planned to have other munitions, like bombs and artillery shells, have a chance of becoming UXOs? It looks like only the cluster sub munitions have UXO variants right now, and UXOs could pose a greater threat to heavier vehicles if bombs/artillery shells had a chance of becoming UXOs. Also, will it be possible to configure non cluster munitions to have a chance of becoming UXOs in the first place?

[Strike_NOR 898]

3 hours ago, pttn40 said:

@DnA I have to say I’m really liking the UXO concept right now. Having to consider UXOs adds a new layer to planning airstrikes that I really like.

 

I am wondering though if it is planned to have other munitions, like bombs and artillery shells, have a chance of becoming UXOs? It looks like only the cluster sub munitions have UXO variants right now, and UXOs could pose a greater threat to heavier vehicles if bombs/artillery shells had a chance of becoming UXOs. Also, will it be possible to configure non cluster munitions to have a chance of becoming UXOs in the first place?

 

I am guessing right now, that UXO's are really only feasible because the cluster bombs guarantee that something is going to take damage. If you drop a single 500lbs bomb and it does nothing, then the average player may get disheartened or even accuse it of being a bug. I honestly know very few multiplayer games that simulate duds, most likely due to the fact that it is a random case of "imbalance". "Hey!! I shot him, and nothing happened, he shot me and I blew up!?!?!" *ragequit*. See my point?

 

However, using it in cluster munitions, there will always be some damage and some duds, which lets the player deal his intended damage, but leaves a new level of challenge. The area is now dangerous to lightly armored vehicles and infantry.

 

 

An interesting thought though, is what modders may be able to do about this! The new types of submunitions may actually prove useful in a completely different manner. Think about your example. You drop a 500lbs Mk82 bomb. It plummets to the ground and impacts hard, but does not detonate. Now the pilot has to report that it was a dud, and a huge area is now "blocked" due to a large UXO. 

 

Another use of this function would be intentional delay! Many real life bombs can be set to have a delayed detonation after impact. This is especially handy for area denial. MK82's could be set with up to 24hr fuse. Drop one in the middle of a runway, and that runway is now unsafe for who knows how long? Low flying CAS may use delay fuses to avoid being hit by their own shrapnel. 

 

There are many uses for such features, that may not only be restricted to UXO's.

 

I'd love to see an effect where "regular explosive ammo" may hit objects at an extremely shallow angle and "bounce/spin" off, leaving the shell/bomb unexploded somewhere nearby. But that requires a lot of work...

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

20 minutes ago, Strike_NOR said:

 

I am guessing right now, that UXO's are really only feasible because the cluster bombs guarantee that something is going to take damage. If you drop a single 500lbs bomb and it does nothing, then the average player may get disheartened or even accuse it of being a bug. I honestly know very few multiplayer games that simulate duds, most likely due to the fact that it is a random case of "imbalance". "Hey!! I shot him, and nothing happened, he shot me and I blew up!?!?!" *ragequit*. See my point?

 

However, using it in cluster munitions, there will always be some damage and some duds, which lets the player deal his intended damage, but leaves a new level of challenge. The area is now dangerous to lightly armored vehicles and infantry.

 

 

An interesting thought though, is what modders may be able to do about this! The new types of submunitions may actually prove useful in a completely different manner. Think about your example. You drop a 500lbs Mk82 bomb. It plummets to the ground and impacts hard, but does not detonate. Now the pilot has to report that it was a dud, and a huge area is now "blocked" due to a large UXO. 

 

Another use of this function would be intentional delay! Many real life bombs can be set to have a delayed detonation after impact. This is especially handy for area denial. MK82's could be set with up to 24hr fuse. Drop one in the middle of a runway, and that runway is now unsafe for who knows how long? Low flying CAS may use delay fuses to avoid being hit by their own shrapnel. 

 

There are many uses for such features, that may not only be restricted to UXO's.

 

I'd love to see an effect where "regular explosive ammo" may hit objects at an extremely shallow angle and "bounce/spin" off, leaving the shell/bomb unexploded somewhere nearby. But that requires a lot of work...

 

Cluster artillery shells could spawn UXOs.