Structures - Ambient Occlusion Improvements

[eriktrak 76]

Created a time-lapse video to demonstrate how the lighting condition changes by the time:

 

 

During the recording changed the AO settings - screenshot of the video settings added to the video.

[djotacon 190]

9 minutes ago, eriktrak said:

Created a time-lapse video to demonstrate how the lighting condition changes by the time:

 

https://youtu.be/fAAtlAaJaQA

 

During the recording changed the AO settings - screenshot of the video settings added to the video.

 

Seeing this video I think right now looks very good.

[twisted 128]

looks great!

[road runner 4344]

4 hours ago, pansyfaust said:

 

Your second post in this thread seems to indicate beyond any doubt that this GENERAL observation was indeed targeting an individual who dared to post constructive criticism of this change.

Moreover, this overly defensive behavior where any person who dares to criticize and/or offer suggestions gets either personally attacked or gets backhand comments on how he shouldn't criticize because so and so;

Why even hold any discussion at all if it's all directed towards nothing but praise? It's even more concerning since a moderator is advocating it.

 

Also, I would like to agree with the previous posters, the upgraded version does look too dark.

Au contraire, the second post is even more clearer, and a repeat, some guys will like it, some guys wont. Did you miss the part that said  " to guys like yourself it's a step backwards" as in pural ?

Did you also misread the part that says, on more than one post ,you can please some of the people some of the time, you can't please all of the people all of the time.?

Nowhere has an individual been highlighted. So your beyond reasonable doubt, is rice paper thin.  You're making an assumption that the comments, despite these been clarified several times, are personal attacks, you're very wrong.

I guess you also missed the part raised about the night illumination being the biggest complaint of the visual upgrade? that doesn't sound like it's being praised does it? 

[tpw 2315]

I think the improvements are vast, and help remove some of the cognitive dissonance of going inside from a brightly lit exterior and having the interior seem just as bright. HBAO+HIGH does have its drawbacks in terms of squirming corner shadows and dark halos around objects/people near walls though.  

[mobile_medic 43]

9 hours ago, road runner said:

Do you see me quote his post? No, I'm well aware of how to use the quote function. Did I mention his post specifically? No. I didn't mention him, or his post by name either,  did I respond after his post with a GENERAL opinion and observation with regards to the visual upgrades, yes I did. Are you jumping to conclusions that the post was directed at him specifically? Yes unfortunately you are.

I will say this again, when it comes to the visual updates, the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't. that is the whole point I'm making, it's not about anyone's post in specific, it's in relation to all the negative feedback  towards the devs since the "splendid" visual update was introduced, some love it, some detest it. catch 22.

The biggest complaint I see mostly is the night time, and the night illumination, or lack of.

Are you yourself offering any constructive feedback with regards to the improvements?
 

Oh... my... goodness... If you weren't responding to his post, then you (a mod) were just coming in to crap in the thread, b/c the only other posts prior to his were "looks good". So, what was the point of coming into a random thread to bring negativity that (by your own admission) had nothing to do with the original post or any of its replies (a request for actual feedback on the work that was done)? Some of the mods here are half the reason I rarely bother with the forums anymore. That and the forum upgrades a few months ago seems to have wrecked my ability to easily follow subscribed threads by most recent update.

 

@baermitumlaut was a little blunt, but his feedback was valid and thorough in my opinion. I can imagine that devs don't have the best initial reaction when the first line they read about their hard work is, "that is worse"... but, they are big kids, and the post had substance... *your* post on the other hand...

[agent556 5]

2 hours ago, road runner said:

pretty much like you're has nothing to contribute either, Pot, kettle black.

i will gladly argue that a simple retort like this is very much not conduct befitting a forum moderator.

 

off of that note, this is a video of dev branch at night with car headlights, is this lighting effect still a limitation of current lighting engine capabilities? or is it something that can be applied to the buildings as you guys have done so far with the ambient occlusion?

 

 

[Belbo 462]

I just have to say: I'm simply amazed that after all these years there are still considerable changes made by the devs, the DLC roadmap aside. We all really appreciate that Arma isn't just a toss-it-out-and-let-it-rot game.

 

That to say: The AO improvements look really good thus far, though some minor adjustments might certainly even make it better. But as agent556 already hinted, it'd be really great if it could be applied to dynamic lights as well. I suppose though that it might put quite a strain on performance.

[ph0enx 12]

1 hour ago, agent556 said:

i will gladly argue that a simple retort like this is very much not conduct befitting a forum moderator.

 

off of that note, this is a video of dev branch at night with car headlights, is this lighting effect still a limitation of current lighting engine capabilities? or is it something that can be applied to the buildings as you guys have done so far with the ambient occlusion?

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Varanon said:

Looks great. Will those changes only affect sunlight, or can it be used to block dynamic lights as well (thus preventing the usual "car headlights shine through the whole building" problem) ?

Edit: Never mind, misinterpreted the technology, it's simply ambient occlusion, not any visual occluder

 

 

 

This is something I would love to see "fixed". If this is ever coming to ARMA I dunno what to say now. But I would love Bohemia to get that one sorted out :)

 

Please Bohemia!!

 

On-Topic: Like the improvements! I haven't tried it myself yet, but what I have seen from the screens, and the Videos in here it looks great, and is a nice addition to ARMA!

[domokun 515]

10 hours ago, eriktrak said:

Created a time-lapse video to demonstrate how the lighting condition changes by the time:

<snip>

During the recording changed the AO settings - screenshot of the video settings added to the video.

Many thanks; that's a MUCH better way of presenting the changes.

Personally I'm surprised that the brightness doesn't vary more in intensity throughout the day.

For personal experience but also time-lapse photography, I'd expect brightness to increase up to midday and then decrease after.

If it did here, then I think that it was way too sublte.

Perhaps I'm not appreciating it because I don't know what time it is. So maybe you could add at 24-hour clock in the top-right hand corner?

[eriktrak 76]

11 hours ago, eriktrak said:

Created a time-lapse video to demonstrate how the lighting condition changes by the time:

 

 

During the recording changed the AO settings - screenshot of the video settings added to the video.

 

What I realized that until (in the garage) 4:41 the light continuously increases as time passes but there is a sudden drop. Maybe clouds causing? However I remember the weather were setup to clear sky.

Other idea that the sun reached it's zenith so in real life only scattered light would reach inside but as it is not simulated (?) the interior will be darker.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

4 hours ago, eriktrak said:

 

What I realized that until (in the garage) 4:41 the light continuously increases as time passes but there is a sudden drop. Maybe clouds causing? However I remember the weather were setup to clear sky.

Other idea that the sun reached it's zenith so in real life only scattered light would reach inside but as it is not simulated (?) the interior will be darker.

 

What you should do is side by side or a match cut comparison, as any changes here are impossible to judge especially with such a subtle effect. If you showed me any of the pictures in the first post on their own, I'm sure I'd go "this is how ArmA looks, what's different?". Honestly, as much as the two images in the original post are showing a stark difference, I can't even tell the difference when I'm ingame and looking at the same window. I guess my mind just goes "this is what it always looked like" while on the other hand, I know that building interior light levels were always insane in ArmA and it seems impossible to create darkness inside a windowless room no matter how hard you try.

 

Spoiler

I can't tell if you used setTimeAcc, setTimeMultiplier or actually waited, but if you aren't already aware of it https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setTimeMultiplier can really be helpful for timelapses.

 

[Yopoman 16]

To the BI devs, I sincerely thank you for this visual upgrade of the AO system! I've wanted this type of improvement to interior lighting in Arma 3 since v1.60 was released and this is a vast improvement. It used to be quite visually jarring to me that the interior of buildings with small windows seemed to be flooded with fluorescent lights, now it looks far more natural. I definitely approve of this visual upgrade, thanks for working on this and I look forward to further developments and improvements. 

[bad benson 1733]

looks great!

 

still praying everytime before bed that arma will receive dynamic lighting through a DLC. maybe steal some of those DayZ graphics coders (i know it's not that easy).

 

the day that happens i will be able to die happy.

[markocro 66]

thanks devs

[x3kj 1247]

13 hours ago, agent556 said:

i will gladly argue that a simple retort like this is very much not conduct befitting a forum moderator.

 

off of that note, this is a video of dev branch at night with car headlights, is this lighting effect still a limitation of current lighting engine capabilities? or is it something that can be applied to the buildings as you guys have done so far with the ambient occlusion?

 

 

I was curios as to wether this issue was meant with "lightmap change" - but its just the occlusion map. This has nothing to do with dynamic lights not casting shadows or any shadow cast basically. It just makes the buildings textures themself appear darker inside. It won't affect infantry and other objects in a room at all. Which is unfortunate. I would love to have dynamic light shadows and depth based light levels (the further you go in unlit room from opening, the darker it gets). Next arma maybe

 

Imo the change was an improvement.

[old_painless 182]

A DayZ teaser for what tech may come to Arma (4): Watch from 4:28 - dynamic shadows

 

 

[bad benson 1733]

arma would benefit so much from this. it can already look stunnin gat times but these technologies that most games have these days and arma doesn't always kill immersion. that video up top shows it so well with the weirdly lit walls inside. it's not only a lack of lighting but also creating these ugly glitches.

 

i hope, if there's gonna be an arma 4 or similar game, that they put all the tech in there they can. inlcuding pbr and more complex procedural animation technology. open games like arma benefit so much more from these dynamic technologies than some fancy looking shooter with tunnel levels where you can prebake all kinds of stuff because lighting won't change.

[das attorney 858]

3 minutes ago, bad benson said:

if there's gonna be an arma 4 or similar game

 

I would imagine that they have all that mapped out internally - companies always have some "5 year plan" despite what you hear from them.

 

In any case, Arma 3 has been a money-spinner, so why not Arma 4?  :)

[djotacon 190]

Off topic:

 

Right now the Enfusion Engine is an active development phase - I think this engine will be the next main BIS engine - and Arma 4 needs 2 years minimum to make the assets plus one year of programming, unless BIS using "magic" have finished in this timeframe I cant see Arma 4 to the 2019-2020.

 

End off topic.

[mickeymen 324]

On 07.02.2017 at 5:24 PM, road runner said:

At least they're still active in updating their product entering its 4th year of release, how many other games have this level of support?

You are right, but the quality of this support and such updates, not always is at the proper level. Unfortunately every update adds bugs.  In this case - constantly updatable game is not a compliment. Sometimes I am even afraid to update the game. Each update adds tons of unnecessary supplements with new bugs.  Such as this - Ambient Occlusion Improvements  - this is another useless a Supplement.

 
I think, Arma3 now has enough beauty and this addition does not affect the gameplay. As seems to me, Arma3 has a much more important issues. Better would have improved the destructible objects in the game, new abilities of AI. Or at least, much more important is the absence of opportunities to get inside lot of buildings at Tanoa. Half of the Tanoa buildings is closed.  

[Beagle 684]

34 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

You are right, but the quality of this support and such updates, not always is at the proper level. Unfortunately every update adds bugs.  In this case - constantly updatable game is not a compliment. Sometimes I am even afraid to update the game. Each update adds tons of unnecessary supplements with new bugs.  Such as this - Ambient Occlusion Improvements  - this is another useless a Supplement.

 
I think, Arma3 now has enough beauty and this addition does not affect the gameplay. As seems to me, Arma3 has a much more important issues. Better would have improved the destructible objects in the game, new abilities of AI. Or at least, much more important is the absence of opportunities to get inside lot of buildings at Tanoa. Half of the Tanoa buildings is closed.  

I see the AO improvement as a way to repair the damage to indoor lighting that was done with 1.60

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

I think, Arma3 now has enough beauty and this addition does not affect the gameplay. As seems to me, Arma3 has a much more important issues. Better would have improved the destructible objects in the game, new abilities of AI. Or at least, much more important is the absence of opportunities to get inside lot of buildings at Tanoa.

And you make the same mistake that countless other people do when criticizing changes/updates in favor of something else. The artists cant work on AI. Redoing ambient occlusion maps can be done almost automatically via batch scripts, once the desired balance and settings to make it has been found. Making destructible objects is a totally different scope. (idk what you mean by that anyway... there are plenty of destructible objects).

If you are afraid of change or new bugs, then maybe maybe maybe arma DEVELOPMENT branch is not the right place for you? If you complain preemtively before its even been released to stable your are just simply unfair to the developers. The bugs introduced with this (occlusion shining through objects) is a simple fix and has been in mods such as CUP as well.

Quote

Half of the Tanoa buildings is closed

And apparently you have missed the countless dev posts about how it was a balance between performance and playability. If it was suddenly fully enterable and performance was shit you would complain as well, wouldnt you?

[domokun 515]

12 hours ago, mickeymen said:

You are right, but the quality of this support and such updates, not always is at the proper level. Unfortunately every update adds bugs.  In this case - constantly updatable game is not a compliment. Sometimes I am even afraid to update the game. Each update adds tons of unnecessary supplements with new bugs.  Such as this - Ambient Occlusion Improvements  - this is another useless a Supplement.

 
I think, Arma3 now has enough beauty and this addition does not affect the gameplay. As seems to me, Arma3 has a much more important issues. Better would have improved the destructible objects in the game, new abilities of AI. Or at least, much more important is the absence of opportunities to get inside lot of buildings at Tanoa. Half of the Tanoa buildings is closed.  

While I too wish that BI would allocate more resources to bug fixing, I think that it's naive to think that patches won't impact other parts of the game. In software development, despite the best efforts of QA, practically every release brings regressions. Another equally unavoidable challenge of development is feature prioritisation. What seems "a useless supplement" to you maybe a "should have" or even "must have" to someone else. In fact BI is working on other aspects which impact gameplay, e.g. jet sensors, jet hitpoints, AI driving, etc. Most of these improvements will affect ALL maps, not just Tanao. With the possible exception of CD Projekt, I doubt you'll find many other devs supporting their game 4 years after it's release, however imperfect their efforts may appear.

[mickeymen 324]

13 hours ago, x3kj said:

And you make the same mistake that countless other people do when criticizing changes/updates in favor of something else. The artists cant work on AI. Redoing ambient occlusion maps can be done almost automatically via batch scripts, once the desired balance and settings to make it has been found. Making destructible objects is a totally different scope. (idk what you mean by that anyway... there are plenty of destructible objects).

 

Yes, Yes, I was wrong! I dream to see the new occlusion and copulating flies is also! Because It's the best thing that can be added to Arma) 

 Seriously, I don't make any mistakes. I'm just stating the facts. And I'm not talking about the work of the artists only, I'm talking about the overall project .If we are going to talk about the work of the only artists, then I will be able to introduce you to a dozen more important things on the background of the new occlusion.

 

13 hours ago, x3kj said:

If you complain preemtively

Probably you are asking me not to complain and just silently buy every update. I bought every DLC and I, like everyone else which support the game for almost 4 years, have the right to complain/  It's obvious.