AI Discussion (dev branch)

[KeyCat 131]

Thanks for posting the link to the video cosmic10r. Looks better!

 

anyone know any good game developers message me on steam allywilly42 willing to pay

 

I think your are in the wrong thread.

 

/KC

[Greenfist 1863]

Tweaked: AI versus clutter visibility (Altis & Stratis)

Does this mean the AI's vision mechanics has somehow changed on a lower level, or is it just that some faulty clutter models' geometries have been tweaked?

[cosmic10r 2331]

Does this mean the AI's vision mechanics has somehow changed on a lower level, or is it just that some faulty clutter models' geometries have been tweaked?

 

 

Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:38

DnA said

24-07-2015

EXE rev. 131612 (game)

Tweaked: Wood material to try to improve AI visibility tests on tree trunks

Relates to previous engine improvement and it should fully fix the issue with AIs sometimes "seeing through the tree trunks" as depicted by 

. (kudos to Luetin09) 

 

 

Looks like it was a material tweak. I have a couple more vids I will upload today with a little more testing on Grass clutter etc.

 

[oukej 2911]

Cool! And thanks for trying it out! The clutter and trees were separate things. In case of trees it was related to the model and the materials (wood) and it should be improved wherever the mat. is used. In case of the clutter it's more about terrain and surfaces and changes relate only to Stratis and Altis.

If you are creating an island or vegetation for Arma 3 and have doubts whether it correctly blocks the AI vision you can raise an issue in FT or directly in here with more detail and we can take a look at it together.

 

[bad benson 1733]

 What I meant was the raycast that is drawn for lineofsight checks getting distorted by certain materials ie..Glass, Water etc upon contact. Maybe Im using the wrong term

 

i had a feeling that was what you meant but i was wondering how that would apply to be honest. sounds like a really specific detail. like would that even apply for a normal window in a way that you can even perceive it in a meaningful way?

[froggyluv 2136]

 Because Im looking for better indoor/outdoor distinction then what we have now. I live on a walled city street of houses in which we all face each other and privacy is well sought after. During the day, everyone opens their blinds because frankly we cant see each other during the daylight with sunglare and distortion. As night comes in, everyone becomes crystal clear for the most part so curtains, shades and blinds are lowered.

 

 Where as in Arma, it feels as if you are merely standing outside when holed up in a building maybe working on an ambush or what not.; I generally like to place enemy AI in window areas as well as I like the added dimension of urban combat but you know how that also goes: "Man -75!" -as they are spotted as if out in plain view. So I guess a higher percentage chance of the lineofsight ray returning false if going thru a window would suffice. Also perhaps the Camoflage level could be upped for interior troops I dunno, but we need more distinction.

 

 This also has me thinking on Greenfists excellent demo, are those casts the sole spot the AI see are can they combine as multiple casts for increased knowsAbout? That would help solve the' head peeking from the doorway' problem -if only one cast sees the objects the shooter is still in determining mode but as the head lingers out more and more concentrated casts locate the head - green light for fire. Meaning the more of a target or longer a pixeled area is focused upon the greater the shooters knowledge.

[cosmic10r 2331]

Cool! And thanks for trying it out! The clutter and trees were separate things. In case of trees it was related to the model and the materials (wood) and it should be improved wherever the mat. is used. In case of the clutter it's more about terrain and surfaces and changes relate only to Stratis and Altis.

If you are creating an island or vegetation for Arma 3 and have doubts whether it correctly blocks the AI vision you can raise an issue in FT or directly in here with more detail and we can take a look at it together.

 

 

 

My pleasure... spend more time testing things than playing lol. 

I had a quick test of Tilos  and one side benefit (as you pointed out) is that it picked up the tweaked values as well so really any assets from that seem to have picked up the adjustments. 

 

The only odd thing I noticed was it seems like the road and grass have same surface values as I was laying down on the road and was apparently invisible... now to be fair I was thinking "These are not the Droids you are looking for" but I don't think that actually worked... Sometimes it seemed like I was invisible and then at 2:38 ish you see the opfor laying down in the road but seems to be able to follow me visually even though I am laying down, but he isn't firing... will continue to test ;)

 

I'm not sure the road and grass values can be different and if not I would prefer this tweak even if it meant the roads were a little odd as they account for less of the terrain. 

 

Credit  to Greenfist for a great testbed mission.

 

 

 

[Greenfist 1863]

Good video, cosmic10r!

But the AI's vision indicators seem to be missing there? Did you remove them from the script or didn't they just work? It's probably a mod conflict, but I tweaked the script a bit, and should be working now. 

If you want to keep playing with it, I suggest you download the latest version (here)

 

Also, a couple of bushes that were see-through before are now fixed too, in addition to the notorious tree trunks. v1.50 is going to be splendid for the AI. :)

[rebelvg 281]

 

The video was recorded on 1.48. If someone wants to test the AI vision on RC you're welcomed to download the mission file.

 

Mission File - https://mega.nz/#!6lg1jD4B!4iqc_SUCkqn7ei_Lq99SActQr4CWC3Q3fgSUYveIHUI

[KeyCat 131]

Good video, cosmic10r!

But the AI's vision indicators seem to be missing there? Did you remove them from the script or didn't they just work? It's probably a mod conflict, but I tweaked the script a bit, and should be working now. 

If you want to keep playing with it, I suggest you download the latest version (here)

 

Also, a couple of bushes that were see-through before are now fixed too, in addition to the notorious tree trunks. v1.50 is going to be splendid for the AI. :)

 

Thanks for sharing your test mission Greenfist and this tweaks looks good. Tested briefly last night and now it's possible to hide from AI in ghillie, prone, still and behind a bush even if they walked by pretty close. Hope to get some more testing time before final 1.50 but as you say this looks splendid so far :)

 

/KC

[cosmic10r 2331]

Thanks for sharing your test mission Greenfist and this tweaks looks good. Tested briefly last night and now it's possible to hide from AI in ghillie, prone, still and behind a bush even if they walked by pretty close. Hope to get some more testing time before final 1.50 but as you say this looks splendid so far :)

 

/KC

 

:)

 

I did a few tests this morning as well on that.

Did this one 3x and it was pretty much the same distance each time.

 

 

Then just wanted to see how it was if you were not in direct LOS.

 

 

Thanks to all for the missions. I tried both missions and they are both very useful for testing purposes... I'm really  enjoying the changes so far. Stealth could be a factor now :)

 

ps Keycat, from the ? from other thread, I'm not running a sound mod at all that I can find lol

[x3kj 1247]

 

During the day, everyone opens their blinds because frankly we cant see each other during the daylight with sunglare and distortion

Distortion? What kind of wicked glass do you have? o0 Window glass doesnt have any noticeable distortion, unless we are talking about very old glass that has become wobbly.

Glass only reflects more if the background is darker, thats it.

[oldy41 61]

Glass only reflects more if the background is darker, thats it.

Yes, and I think that's simply what froggy was talking about. In normal daylight conditions it is difficult to see people inside buildings through window glass.

I do not assume he really meant to apply raytracing techniques to simulate distortion, but maybe simply apply a penalty to AI vision when looking through glass windows from the outside. Imho this would really improve urban combat scenarios.

[x3kj 1247]

Ok, but this effect is not visually present for the players, is it? In terms of parity i think this should be put on hold until (that means if at all) we get an improved lighting engine at some point - which would be super sweet, but i doubt that's going to happen in Arma 3.

[oldy41 61]

Ok, but this effect is not visually present for the players, is it? In terms of parity i think this should be put on hold until (that means if at all) we get an improved lighting engine at some point - which would be super sweet, but i doubt that's going to happen in Arma 3.

But the effect is present for players even now. Maybe it is influenced by the graphic settings, but for me window panes use a specific shader to reflect a very simplified version of the surroundings. This effectively hampers visibility of buildings interior. The grade of the effect is depending on viewing angle and lighting like in real life, but of course very simplified.

[froggyluv 2136]

Fixed: Infantry engaging armored vehicles with rifles

 

 

[kauppapekka 27]

So I've been testing out AI garrisoning and how they react to engagement and I've come to the conclusion that currently the best solution is to use one man groups. As if you garrison a building with only one group, the squad leader will call out a regroup command when they get engaged. Meaning they won't utilise the building.
 
Now the one man groups has the problem of spotting, as the units won't share information between each other, so units at the other side of the building won't react or just start spinnning in place looking for the hostile targets others know about.
Solution for this would be really appreciated, for example in the form of command that disables regrouping of the group or between group communication.
Of course if I've been just blabbering for a thing that has already been solved, please enlighten me. :)
 
The other thing that I noticed with my testing is that the AI detection of bullets hitting around them could be a little farther, at least in my opinion. As when I made the AI shoot into a target on the balcony I was able to hear the hit of the bullet everywhere in the building, when shot around the same place as in the pictures, than what the AI reaction shows.

 

 

Each AI was in his own group and I shot with the M320 LRR .408 left of the soldier in the crosshair of the first picture.
 

[seba1976 98]

Solution for this would be really appreciated, for example in the form of command that disables regrouping of the group or between group communication.

Of course if I've been just blabbering for a thing that has already been solved, please enlighten me. :)

 

{_x forceSpeed 0} forEach units _someGrp;

Is the latest about that subject. So far it solves the problem. You can also make the units face the outside, but would be off-topic.

[rübe 127]

{_x forceSpeed 0} forEach units _someGrp;

Yeah, or you can issue them a doStop, which results in units that stand still *until* contact with the enemy is made, at which point units probably will leave their positions (in case the leader issues engage orders) and move around - which also might be a nice behaviour.

At least I'm not really a fan of units being fixed somewhere (IMHO that's more something for static vehicles; use 'em ;)), to then simply drop to the ground upon contact. But of course you could use both approaches.

 

A good mix of fortification objects, static vehicles/mgs, and then patrolling (maybe some hidden backup units a player wont see at first - released upon alarm), doStopped and maybe even some forceSpeed-fixed units should give you a lovely result. :)

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Hey Oukej,

 

Regarding AI use of grenades, is there anything in the code to prevent the unit from throwing many grenades within a short period of time?

 

Just watched a unit throw 3 frags in 3 seconds :) Variety is the spice of life but I'm not sure this is intended behaviour.

[mjolnir66 48]

I have a couple of things I'd like to see, one is not an AI thing as such, but it'd still be most useful with the AI.

 

The first is for the AIs to not be such snipers with shoulder fired unguided rockets. I know it could be annoying to have your AT guy miss a vital RPG shot, but my response is to get closer. The chance to hit an IFV sized target with an RPG 7 drops below 50% at 130m IRL. 

 

The second is the more important one. The Out of Ammo call. It's basically useless, especially with it triggering when he's "low" on AT ammo too. Could it not be more context sensetive, maybe giving a "2 Mags Left" or "Last Rocket" or the like. It'd be much more useful than "Low on Ammo", which could be down to ~2 mags of rifle ammo 2 rockets, or down to empty on either.

[dr. hladik 231]

In case of the clutter it's more about terrain and surfaces and changes relate only to Stratis and Altis.

 

 

It relates to all islands (if configured properly*).

And yes, it is done on raycast level.

 

* when island is binazired, please make sure, that clutter info is #included. If you are just using requiredAddons, it will not work.

(I plan to add some diag., so you can tell if values are computed)

[alanford 27]

So the AI superhuman eyes have not been addressed yet? The AI can still detect through a 1px wide tunnel through a forest, correct? Because as long as this is not looked at, the AI will be fubar. 

[kremator 1065]

^^ prolly yes.  They can detect the slightest movement or camo pattern through that little gap :)

[domokun 515]

So the AI superhuman eyes have not been addressed yet? The AI can still detect through a 1px wide tunnel through a forest, correct? Because as long as this is not looked at, the AI will be fubar. 

This aspect alone more or less ruins most stealth/ambush missions. I cannot understand that such a significant part of the game has been neglected:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=14905