Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[seba1976 98]

@Vasily.B Chill out buddy :) , take a break from the game if you're felling so bad. Have plenty of fun with the other titles you mentioned.

[Vasily.B 529]

@Vasily.B Chill out buddy :) , take a break from the game if you're felling so bad. Have plenty of fun with the other titles you mentioned.

Thats what i'm going to do now. :)

[R3vo 2654]

Here's a video showing an audio bug which has been around since the ambient wind sounds were introduced. Is there a way to fix that?

*It's very noticeable at around 30 - 40 seconds*

 

[megagoth1702 252]

3 hours ago, R3vo said:

Here's a video showing an audio bug which has been around since the ambient wind sounds were introduced. Is there a way to fix that?

*It's very noticeable at around 30 - 40 seconds*

 

You mean the noise at 0:34-0:35? I am not sure what to listen for.

[R3vo 2654]

19 minutes ago, megagoth1702 said:

You mean the noise at 0:34-0:35? I am not sure what to listen for.

 

The noise the wind makes, very quickly appears and disappears which sound very unnatural. I can make a video without rain if needed.

[megagoth1702 252]

2 hours ago, R3vo said:

 

The noise the wind makes, very quickly appears and disappears which sound very unnatural. I can make a video without rain if needed.

That would help isolating which of the many sound sources playing at the same time is at fault there. :)

 

Hmm, is it this bug?

[megagoth1702 252]

Talked to the audio guys - it's the limit of max played voices. Since arma3 tanoa's soundscape is now very rich (each bush, tree, house etc. is producing sound) each sounds produces a voice. And since the voice limit of 128 (divided into smaller "groups" for weapons, vehicles, EnvSFX etc.) is pretty low and there is not yet a good "prioritize" function in place, this is what we have right now. This is why we come near a "new" sound source, an "old" one dies.

 

This is a known issue and it's being worked on. No ETA, but maybe in one of the upcoming DLCs. Only time will tell. That's all we know right now.

[R3vo 2654]

53 minutes ago, megagoth1702 said:

Talked to the audio guys - it's the limit of max played voices. Since arma3 tanoa's soundscape is now very rich (each bush, tree, house etc. is producing sound) each sounds produces a voice. And since the voice limit of 128 (divided into smaller "groups" for weapons, vehicles, EnvSFX etc.) is pretty low and there is not yet a good "prioritize" function in place, this is what we have right now.

 

This is a known issue and it's being worked on. No ETA, but maybe in one of the upcoming DLCs. Only time will tell. That's all we know right now.

 

Cool, that's more information than I hoped for.

Thanks megagoth for the update!

Edited December 13, 2016 by R3vo
spelling

[Brisse 78]

Ok, so now after the Christmas update CS:GO has in engine HRTF. Perhaps now that it's finally implemented in a popular game, people are going to start noticing the technology and it's benefits.

 

I know this is a big request which potentially could take a lot of work, but I would really like to see HRTF for headphone use implemented in Arma 3. I think the setting of Arma 3 is perfect for this type of technology, being set in a wide open space where sometimes a lot of things are happening around the player in both the horizontal and vertical plane and spatial awareness is an important part of gameplay. I'm already using 8ch virtual surround in the form of Dolby Headphone, but I think in engine HRTF would really take things one step further and it would mean everyone with the game would have access to it.

 

There are open source HRTF library's available, so some of the work is already done. I suspect other games are using these, so it's only a matter of implementing it in the game engine. Yes, I realise it's not a small task, but still...

https://github.com/greekgoddj/mit-hrtf-lib

 

BI, can we please have in engine HRTF pretty pleeeease

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

I know this is a big request which potentially could take a lot of work, but I would really like to see HRTF for headphone use implemented in Arma 3

even my x-fi soundcard has 3d emulation for stereo headphones that is phenomenal and that card is 10 years old... Waste of time.

[Brisse 78]

6 hours ago, x3kj said:

even my x-fi soundcard has 3d emulation for stereo headphones that is phenomenal and that card is 10 years old... Waste of time.

 

It's not quite the same thing though. Virtual surround such as that found on your soundcard is limited to emulating the HRTF's of 8 speakers sitting on a 2D-plane (there's no verticality so it's not 3D).

 

Think of virtual surround as emulating sitting in a room with a home theatre system around you, while in engine HRTF is more like actually putting your head directly in the game environment.

[x3kj 1247]

33 minutes ago, Brisse said:

 

It's not quite the same thing though. Virtual surround such as that found on your soundcard is limited to emulating the HRTF's of 8 speakers sitting on a 2D-plane (there's no verticality so it's not 3D).

 

Think of virtual surround as emulating sitting in a room with a home theatre system around you, while in engine HRTF is more like actually putting your head directly in the game environment.

that sounds very snazzy except practically it will not make much of a difference. If you hear footsteps, you know its not going to be in the air, its on ground level. If you hear a helicopter come in, you know it can't be under you or on the ground. So you look up high automatically. So unless you have some crazy 3D labyrinth levels - which arma has not - 3D sound (vs 2D plane) will make little difference practically. And for the work involved and the current state of the sound system... there are better things to work on.

[Vasily.B 529]

1 hour ago, x3kj said:

that sounds very snazzy except practically it will not make much of a difference. If you hear footsteps, you know its not going to be in the air, its on ground level. If you hear a helicopter come in, you know it can't be under you or on the ground. So you look up high automatically. So unless you have some crazy 3D labyrinth levels - which arma has not - 3D sound (vs 2D plane) will make little difference practically. And for the work involved and the current state of the sound system... there are better things to work on.

I think he mean better recognize of shooter direction....

[froggyluv 2136]

13 hours ago, x3kj said:

that sounds very snazzy except practically it will not make much of a difference. If you hear footsteps, you know its not going to be in the air, its on ground level. If you hear a helicopter come in, you know it can't be under you or on the ground. So you look up high automatically. So unless you have some crazy 3D labyrinth levels - which arma has not - 3D sound (vs 2D plane) will make little difference practically. And for the work involved and the current state of the sound system... there are better things to work on.

 

 Strongly disagree. Relying on hearing in 3d audio is extremely satisfying when pinpoint accurate. To just assume all infantry footfalls are same plane as you at all times is both not true and depressing if it was.

[x3kj 1247]

1 hour ago, froggyluv said:

 

 Strongly disagree. Relying on hearing in 3d audio is extremely satisfying when pinpoint accurate. To just assume all infantry footfalls are same plane as you at all times is both not true and depressing if it was.

Have you tested current 3d software solutions from soundcards?

The current surround audio emulation with soundcards is already extremely good - i played planetside 2 a long time with it, and this has a lot more verticality and environmental complexity compared to arma. There are units with jet packs, units who drop via droppod on top of large towers and generally a large abundance of very tall buildings and steep cliffs with many nooks and crannies to hide in. There are also cloaked units who can't be seen and only detected via audio. The 10 year old sound emulation was fully sufficient to identify enemy positions via audio alone. Arma does NOT have this verticality and environmental complexity of planetside 2. Its also not as fast paced. Even in Air to Air dogfights the emulation was capable of providing complete awareness of the enemies position in the air by audio alone. In that game you can't see the enemy in a dogfight due to the extreme small turning radius of their scifi "aircraft". With the 3D system of the X-fi i was extremely successfull in dogfights, as i could identify exactly where the enemy fighter was. It works a lot better then you might think based on paper stats...

In an environment of limited ressources - no not worth the extra work, until many other things are improved.

[domokun 515]

On 12/31/2016 at 11:11 AM, x3kj said:

that sounds very snazzy except practically it will not make much of a difference. If you hear footsteps, you know its not going to be in the air, its on ground level. If you hear a helicopter come in, you know it can't be under you or on the ground. So you look up high automatically. So unless you have some crazy 3D labyrinth levels - which arma has not - 3D sound (vs 2D plane) will make little difference practically. And for the work involved and the current state of the sound system... there are better things to work on.

You've obviously done very little CQB. Being able to distinguish that sounds (footsteps, gunshots, voices) are from the floor above or below offers a HUGE tactical difference. Equally hearing helicopters or jets flying overhead, is SO much more convincing that simply hearing them move from behind to in-front. In many ways, 3D has regressed over the last 20 years. Anyone remember how good A3D's HRTF was in HL1? Creative can choke itself on attorney fees.

[x3kj 1247]

25 minutes ago, domokun said:

You've obviously done very little CQB.

And you obviously can't read? If you have no idea what Planetside 2 is then watch gameplay on youtube (example). Extreme verticality, extremely busy with action, fast paced, a lot of people, abundance of extreme close quarters battles but also medium and long range. It worked in that environment. I'm talking from experience and not based on paper stats. I do not care about "convincing sounds". I care about beeing able to accurately locate targets by audio. And that it (the software solutions) do completely fine in the environment of PS2. Which means it is completely sufficient for Arma that does NOT have this high verticality and busy-ness (i'm repeating myself).

[Vasily.B 529]

On 31.12.2016 at 11:11 AM, x3kj said:

that sounds very snazzy except practically it will not make much of a difference. If you hear footsteps, you know its not going to be in the air, its on ground level. If you hear a helicopter come in, you know it can't be under you or on the ground. So you look up high automatically. So unless you have some crazy 3D labyrinth levels - which arma has not - 3D sound (vs 2D plane) will make little difference practically. And for the work involved and the current state of the sound system... there are better things to work on.

Right now, i can barelly hear diference between ENEMY height (floors). Also with the choppers on starting position (somewhere in the bushes on ground) vs in the air after take off sounds nearly the same. This is why this need little rework. We can hear sound in horizontal very well (tell from where the sound came from) but not vertically.

[roshnak 41]

On 1/1/2017 at 5:40 AM, x3kj said:

And you obviously can't read? If you have no idea what Planetside 2 is then watch gameplay on youtube (example). Extreme verticality, extremely busy with action, fast paced, a lot of people, abundance of extreme close quarters battles but also medium and long range. It worked in that environment. I'm talking from experience and not based on paper stats. I do not care about "convincing sounds". I care about beeing able to accurately locate targets by audio. And that it (the software solutions) do completely fine in the environment of PS2. Which means it is completely sufficient for Arma that does NOT have this high verticality and busy-ness (i'm repeating myself).

 

Proper 3D audio is objectively more accurate than virtual surround is. What level of accuracy is sufficient for Arma or any other game is subjective.

[Dwarden 1125]

to calm some of the heat discussions  - let me put it this way, we're aware about HRTF and similar techniques and beyond ...

 

this is not promise of anything ... thus I'm not responsible for any speculations either ....

[joostsidy 685]

I am wondering if rifle sounds are still subject to improvement.

 

- I like the Spar rifles very much, but it's a shame that the Spar 17 has the same sound as the Chinese rifle. I would prefer a new sound for the Spar 17. Maybe based on the Spar-16, or even the same sound as the Spar-16.

- I like the original heavy caliber sniper rifles very much (M320, Lynx), however I feel their sound is a bit underwhelming. The sound is too short? I hope this can be improved in some way.

 

 

[teabagginpeople 398]

On 04/01/2017 at 3:20 PM, dwarden said:

to calm some of the heat discussions  - let me put it this way, we're aware about HRTF and similar techniques and beyond ...

 

this is not promise of anything ... thus I'm not responsible for any speculations either ....

Relax you're not responsible for speculation... but I am.. Wooo techniques Incoming. Why are y'all still doubting the sound guys huh? Y'all Better recognise. Now for the end of the old arma 3 sounds lets have 2 minutes silence that is ended with a roaring jet engine fly by from the new ones.

[Brisse 78]

39 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

lets have 2 minutes silence that is ended with a roaring jet engine fly by from the new ones.

 

Sure hope the upcoming vehicle DLC's do something about sound. Current jets, boats and ground vehicles with sounds from way back in early access are seriously immersion breaking.

 

Infantry, firefights, helicopters and environment have seen some good improvement. I hope they can bring the rest up to the same level. I wish jet's would sound as good as DCS with proper doppler, speed of sound and supersonic implementation.

 

The wonky physics could be a problem though. Doesn't matter how good a job the sound engineers do if the physics are all wrong, because then it will still sound strange. Just look at how tanks handle engine RPM and gear-shifts to see what I mean. It seems completely unnatural. I hope they can do something about that as well.

[Vasily.B 529]

1 hour ago, Brisse said:

 

S helicopters and environment have seen some good improvement.

 

You mean fleeing? :P

[danil-ch 165]

Quote

• Tweaked: Footstep sound volumes are now more balanced 

After this change you can barely hear hear sounds (metal clicks) during movement. Some balancing needed.