Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[devilslayersbane 28]

I very much approve of the new weapon sounds, especially the suppressed ones. The non suppressed sounds need some tweaking still, but I'm sure you guys are working on it. One thing is the volume. Some of them are a bit too quiet. A simple rule of thumb could be that it should be very hard to distinguish the "ping" from the bullet hitting a metal plate without suppressor, but it should be easily distinguishable with a suppressor attached. I realize this might be slightly difficult though, considering the dynamic range cannot be as wide as in real life, but still...

Looking forward to environmental effects, sound occlusion etc.... Exciting times ahead on dev-branch! :)

I actually feel like many of the new sounds are almost perfect. Especially the ones for the 5.56 rifles. I really liked the new Mk200 sound, as it's no longer so "ping-y". Overall the sounds themselves are more rugged and raw, and I really like that. I'm really excited for the vehicle weapons and the new guns.

[zeep 3]

As for finding loop positions in samples, can't a program like Sound Forge be used to place loop markers and then using those numbers when defining the start/end? Or does this engine require people to just fiddle with numbers until they are lucky enough to find a loop position that works?

[roberthammer 582]

Sounds should be fixed in latest version also > http://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-shots-fired

[Bouben 3]

Sound occlusion is confirmed? And what environmental effects can we expect?

[Brisse 78]

Sound occlusion is confirmed in todays OPREP, but is not on dev-branch yet. You should really read the OPREP :)

Edit: Okay, I read it again, and I'm not sure about it. Maybe they are just talking about the occlusion filters that are activated when you are inside a vehicle? I'm not sure really...

[lexx 1363]

Oh my god, the Katiba sounds amazing.

It's like a totally real thing now.

[Bouben 3]

Sound occlusion is confirmed in todays OPREP, but is not on dev-branch yet. You should really read the OPREP :)

Edit: Okay, I read it again, and I'm not sure about it. Maybe they are just talking about the occlusion filters that are activated when you are inside a vehicle? I'm not sure really...

I read OPREPS etc. I have not get email yet.

And yes, new weapon sounds are great.

Pistols are too quiet now, though.

[supercereal4 29]

Maybe it's because I'm not familiar with firing sounds IRL, but the MX sounds a little... off... right now. The firing sounds just fine but there's a very distinguishable echo that can be heard after each shot that's not heard on the other rifles. It doesn't seem quite right.

EDIT: It is present with other rifles, but it's quieter, the MX echo seems way too loud by comparison. Maybe it could be toned down a bit. Right now the echo is louder than the Zafir LMG's echo :eek:.

EDIT 2: Sorry for the disorganization. What's different and what seems off with the MX is that each shot carries two echoes. The first is heard almost directly after firing and is quite loud. The second one is the "normal" one that is much like the echoes of other weapons firing. It is the first echo that I think needs to be fixed.

Edited January 27, 2015 by supercereal4

[CyricD 10]

The new weapon sounds are really amazing!

Also really like the new Katiba!! :)

Now you can hear the mechanism click, which is something you feel when you fire a bullpup IRL, thx for the good work :)

[megagoth1702 252]

First of all - congratz to the new work on audio! Hell, it has taken FOREVER for this department to get overhauled.

But I don't like the new sounds presented in the blog. Barely any low end kick/punch to them. Sounds loud and distorted. In full auto you can't even make out each shot.

Check this video and note the low end kick for the Mk20, which clearly gives each shot attention. Jump to 0:50 for Mk20.

Even more extreme example of definition and punch:

I'll see if the actual game sounds any better.

And in the risk of sounding too arrogant but it seems most of this community have no clue how real guns sound if they think a punchless sample where the fast environmental response is just as loud as the initial BANG/KICK is "real". Youtube and JSRS sure did their thing on people...

If you want to get a VERY rough idea on how real guns sound like when recorded properly with DIFFERENT microphones and mic positions, listen to this:

A bit worse mic setup that sometimes delivers distorted recordings, but still - you hear the "punch/kick" ALWAYS much louder than the rest of the gun sound:

And some audio-only, listen to the player at the bottom of the page:

http://therecordist.com/gunscapes-hd-pro-sfx

Edit:Okay, this is WIP. So I don't expect perfection but a high tolerance to criticism. I just listened to the game and well... I do like the supressors. And even they lack BASS/KICK. But I don't like the rest.

The sounds are unbalanced in volume, for example Mk20 sounds louder than Katiba (fire in full auto), because it has more high frequencies in it during a longer period of time (katiba has better KICK/punch), which the human ear reacts more to. In the loudness wars in the music industry the sometimes even mixed some high frequency NOISE into the mix to make the song sound louder at certain parts. Just listen to the recent pop songs and their "build up -> release" bullshit.

LISTEN FROM 3:00, build up -> release and there is this high frequency noise.

But back to guns. Volume balance is important guys. Also - how come the "tail" of all the weapons sound so different? The katiba tail has a volume peak on the LEFT channel, so it feels like echo is coming in from the left. The MX has this bassy tail for no reason.

I'm sorry, but I can't get the thought out of my head that this is amateur's work.

Edited January 27, 2015 by megagoth1702

[bigpickle 0]

Great videos I'm proud to have several NTG3's and an FR2-LE as my field recorder. By the way you understand Megagoth how it should be mate. I feel we have the same ideas and understanding of audio.

The second technical thing is that we are planning to reorganize the data structure of weapon samples. These changes are likely more important for community mods; more details will be announced and described in greater detail later.

Whilst I'm very happy that audio is finaly getting some treatment, I hope this doesnt mean I have to recode my whole mod, again.

[megagoth1702 252]

Great videos I'm proud to have several NTG3's and an FR2-LE as my field recorder. By the way you understand Megagoth how it should be mate. I feel we have the same ideas and understanding of audio.

Whilst I'm very happy that audio is finaly getting some treatment, I hope this doesnt mean I have to recode my whole mod, again.

Thanks. I'm spending enough of my time with gun audio to know a thing or two. And I'm still learning.

And @ recode - this is why I never wanted to use scripts in my sound mod. You never know what BIS comes around the corner with. :)

@BIS: Is there a way to play a sound whenever the player gets hit besides the playerHit sound? playerHit plays from where the body has been hit so if I was to put a scream in there it would scream from the LEFT SIDE of you get hit in the left arm. I want the scream to be center, the hit sound itself can be placed wherever.

Edited January 27, 2015 by megagoth1702

[2nd ranger 282]

NOOOOOOO you replaced the decent P07 sound with the horrendous old ACP2 sound NOOOOOOOOO

I like the Mk20 and the Katiba. The machineguns are pretty good too.

And yeah the MX sounds really weird. I was shooting it and somebody came into the room and said "I thought you were hitting your desk." The MX doesn't sound very good in auto. The rest of the rifles do, they're more seamless.

Edited January 27, 2015 by 2nd Ranger

[supercereal4 29]

And yeah the MX sounds really weird. I was shooting it and somebody came into the room and said "I thought you were hitting your desk." The MX doesn't sound very good in auto. The rest of the rifles do, they're more seamless.

When I heard it I thought that the people on the floor above me were stomping on the ground. It is definitely an awkward sound.

And excellent write-up @megagoth1702. Lots of games seems to lack that bass or "Thump".

[xendance 3]

Agreed, the MX sounds pretty weird at the moment. Needs more refining.

[CaptainObvious 95]

A lightning strike busted my comp a while back and I'm unable to play at the moment, could someone make a short video of the new sounds, i'm itching to hear 'em. :o

[spanishsurfer 58]

So what about sounds for all of the missing stuff? Like trees falling, tanks smashing over stuff, etc, etc....???? And any tests being conducted to see the impact this sound work will have on sound mods like Dragonfyre and Speed of sound? Itd be a damn shame (and a total FU to mod devs) to see the best sound mods (Dragonfyre and Speed of sound) Arma has ever had completely broken by a sound overhaul

Edited January 27, 2015 by SpanishSurfer

[Fushko 59]

...And any tests being conducted to see the impact this sound work will have on sound mods like Dragonfyre and Speed of sound? Itd be a damn shame (and a total FU to mod devs) to see the best sound mods (Dragonfyre and Speed of sound) Arma has ever had completely broken by a sound overhaul

Devs don't have to take mods into account. It's the other way around.

[Bouben 3]

First of all - congratz to the new work on audio! Hell, it has taken FOREVER for this department to get overhauled.

But I don't like the new sounds presented in the blog. Barely any low end kick/punch to them. Sounds loud and distorted. In full auto you can't even make out each shot.

Check this video and note the low end kick for the Mk20, which clearly gives each shot attention. Jump to 0:50 for Mk20.

Sniper rifles in the video sound horribly compressed and hollywood-like. All weapons in the video are too quiet too.

[valnwt 11]

Sniper rifles in the video sound horribly compressed and hollywood-like. All weapons in the video are too quiet too.

So you turn up the volume ;)

[St. Jimmy 272]

Sniper rifles in the video sound horribly compressed and hollywood-like. All weapons in the video are too quiet too.

Well I agree the sniper sounds bit off but the rifles are spot on. Just turn up the volume.

Those mic comparsion videos are nice.

Here's a

how things sound IRL though naturally in first person when you're shooting it's bit different.

About the current sounds well at least the SD sounds are decent now and IMO the sounds work for first person and close but everywhere else those sounds don't sound good at all because gun should sound different from further away. Listening 6.5mm shooting 100m away and it sounds like very short bit muffy audio clips without any punchy scratchiness/reverb that makes the sound last bit longer. Maybe those are added later then.

[mamasan8 11]

Sounds sound a bit too digital. No variation. It's like a drum machine that only plays one drum the same way all the time, like a robot was playing.

When you fire single shots at a time it doesn't matter that much but with full-auto it's different.

An example of what I mean is Toontracks 'EZ Drummer'. It has a 'humanizer', I think it's called.

Heres an example of manual humanizing

Edited January 27, 2015 by mamasan8

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Ok, i'm going to say from now, the ACP-C2/TRG/MK-20/Katiba/Zafir sounds are really good. The MK-20 stands out the most though, in terms of a really good gun sound. The MX, stands out as the least best sound improvement, it's more bass than anything, however, it's still a good improvement thus far. PO7's sound was changed to how the ACP-C2 used to be, which to be honest, doesn't sound like a pistol at all, doesn't even sound like a gun... (Don't mistake this for how the ACP-C2 currently is, it's currently really good on Dev Branch)

Edited January 28, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[St. Jimmy 272]

PO7's sound was changed to how the ACP-C2 used to be

Dunno why they made that but OPREP didn't say anything about P07 so I guess it's just a wip but for some reason they replaced the sound. They just can't use that sound because it's so off :D

[megagoth1702 252]

The videos I posted are WIP and the 50cals are outdated. They are going through hell right now to sound right. ;) I don't want to raise the sample volume any higher because it will introduce clipping and distortion but on the other hand I want the 50cal to have a bit of extra punch to it. A way to do it is to lower the sound of everything else - a task that I push ahead of me for a looong time. If you want awesome volume levels - play insurgency and turn it up so that talking and running feels natural. Now fire your rifle. ;) It's all about the mix.

Sniper rifles in the video sound horribly compressed and hollywood-like. All weapons in the video are too quiet too.

So you turn up the volume ;)

+1

Too quiet compared to WHAT? JSRS? BIS' samples? No shit, they are too loud. I'm tired of people always expecting the loudest shit ever. TOO MUCH VOLUME RUINS THE SOUND. Just turn up YOUR volume. If a game is MIXED properly and the volumes are BALANCED properly you will have a great experience when turning up the volume.

Well I agree the sniper sounds bit off but the rifles are spot on. Just turn up the volume.

Those mic comparsion videos are nice.

Here's a

how things sound IRL though naturally in first person when you're shooting it's bit different.

Thanks for the kind words but that video - NO NO NO just NO! Distant sounds are kind of oka-ish but close stuff nowhere represents the difference in volume between the initial BANG/discharge and the response from the environment. Also there is absolutely NO low noticeable low end to be heard in the close stuff, which is a typical sickness of the youtube videos. Too much volume to process for the small camera mic. They just don't have the microphones to properly record a gun with all the frequencies and a proper dynamic range.

One of the reasons why we have so many shitty sounds out there is because a large part of the audience thinks youtube is REAL and build their sound (mod) to get a similiar feeling. But once you fired a rifle, a pistol yourself and FELT the kick, you just can't make sound without punch anymore. You don't really HEAR it in real life, you FEEL the low end. And since I can not go from door to door punching people into their shoulders I have to use LOW END in sound because our brain directly translates that to POWER.

Edited January 28, 2015 by megagoth1702