General Discussion (dev branch)

[x3kj 1247]

There is no "penetrate and then explode" in Arma. Either, or. As it stands anyway...  here is the ticket https://feedback.bistudio.com/T82243

So even if they wanted they couldnt rebalance it to what you would want without introducing new bullet technology.

[pils 49]

56 minutes ago, x3kj said:

There is no "penetrate and then explode" in Arma. Either, or. As it stands anyway...  here is the ticket https://feedback.bistudio.com/T82243

So even if they wanted they couldnt rebalance it to what you would want without introducing new bullet technology.

 

Try firing the 35mm AA (Cheetah, Tigris), 30mm MP (Gorgon/BTR/Mora) or 20mm HE (Blackfoot) at a building and tell me that again.

 

If you want, you can additionally use this here (link) to see where exactly each round is going to.

You can also put AI inside the building for confirmation ... these cannons/ammo types are able to penetrate e.g. walls and "explode inside" (=> detonation occurs upon impact with a second wall - which the round is unable to penetrate due to low kinetic energy).

At least that seems to be the case for the 20mm HE rounds. I can't tell if the other two ammo types behave a bit differently (2 explosions?), but the effects are very similar.

Even though the way this works is not 100% realistic, it turns out whatever kind of workaround they came up with there is perfectly fine for Arma 3. It really works well and is highly beneficial for the gameplay.

That's why I can't understand why they didn't implement exactly this for all the medium/large caliber MP/GPR/HE/HEAT(?) ammunition type.

 

Note: In the early versions even leaves and bushes would make all the non-armor-piercing shells explode, which isn't the case anymore. So they clearly changed something there. 

 

[x3kj 1247]

1 hour ago, pils said:

Try firing the 35mm AA (Cheetah, Tigris), 30mm MP (Gorgon/BTR/Mora) or 20mm HE (Blackfoot) at a building and tell me that again.

These projectiles are not exploding. They are causing area of effect damage upon impacting on anything, multiple times when possible. Their "Explosion" is just the impact effect. If they penetrate 20 sheets of paper they will cause 20x the damage. You complained about unrealistic rounds. This is totally unrealistic. So i tell you again:  either penetrating, or exploding.

[Vasily.B 529]

20 hours ago, x3kj said:

These projectiles are not exploding. They are causing area of effect damage upon impacting on anything, multiple times when possible. Their "Explosion" is just the impact effect. If they penetrate 20 sheets of paper they will cause 20x the damage. You complained about unrealistic rounds. This is totally unrealistic. So i tell you again:  either penetrating, or exploding.

There is some kind of that technology - its bug for now, but i think it can be changed to feature. Right now all HE rounds shooted through vegetation explode on this vegetation and on point behind it, so there is some kind of those detonators, which pils talked about, just need little tweaking (never tought bug can be usefull).

[x3kj 1247]

46 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

There is some kind of that technology - its bug for now, but i think it can be changed to feature. Right now all HE rounds shooted through vegetation explode on this vegetation and on point behind it, so there is some kind of those detonators, which pils talked about, just need little tweaking (never tought bug can be usefull).

You think, but i know. Read what i wrote. Test it. And you will see that i'm correct.

[Vasily.B 529]

12 minutes ago, x3kj said:

You think, but i know. Read what i wrote. Test it. And you will see that i'm correct.

Thats why i wrote it need tweaking as for now its just a bug.

[x3kj 1247]

It is no bug. It has always been this way. A projectile deals hit damage and indirect damage on every single penetration. 20 objects penetrated (e.g. bush) -> 20x damage. Impact effect is also displayed 20 times. The projectile only terminates when velocity reaches 0 (hit terrain ground or something it cant penetrate). UNLESS explosive value is >0.7, then it terminates immediately on first impact.

the projectiles you think have a "fuze" are just using an explosion particle effect as impact effect, instead of some leaves dropping or dirt spray like on rifle rounds.

[dragon01 902]

I hope that Tanks DLC takes a serious look at the penetration system. Otherwise, we'll have to bug BIS about it the moment ArmA4 enters EA...

[x3kj 1247]

The penetration mechanics are ok. Whats not fine is the ammo simulation for anything that is not a pure HE or, pure Ball/AP shell. No fuze settings for time delay, no options to spawn subammo on impact (HEAT), dodgy damage calculation based on velocity lost in components, dodgy internal damage radii.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T120542

 

the penetration system could use some values where you can tweak the random angle of projectiles leaving a penetrated body per bullet or material, and different penetration thickness for heat projectiles. Overmatching mechanic would be cream of the pie (projectile with high energy goes through thin plane even at extreme angle when the plate cant sustand that force) . But i seriously doubt that they would implement that for arma.

 

With the penetration and damage system right now and some simple scripting you can make some pretty advanced damage systems (like warthunder, minus the spalling effects and minus overmatching) - if one can find a way to mitigate the issues mentioned in the ticket above. Maybe ill post a video example soon.

[petek 62]

Hi

Is anyone else having a major performance problem after the last few updates? I hadn't played for a few days and today performance is awful. Rotation is really slow and juddery, zooming in also. I'm going to switch to main branch but wanted to check if anyone else is having issues after the last couple of Dev updates. Thanks for any feedback

[pingopete 26]

On 4/11/2017 at 4:07 PM, inlesco said:

• Added: An ability to split internal and external vehicle sounds

So the time has come? We can finally natively separate internal and external vehicle sounds without any hackscripts?

Anyone found Any information on this? It's nice to see that in the changlog but how can we utilize it?

I'm dying to have internal gun sounds on vehicles, it'd be so much more immersive and realistic

[pils 49]

On 14.6.2017 at 8:38 PM, x3kj said:

These projectiles are not exploding. They are causing area of effect damage upon impacting on anything, multiple times when possible. Their "Explosion" is just the impact effect. If they penetrate 20 sheets of paper they will cause 20x the damage. You complained about unrealistic rounds. This is totally unrealistic. So i tell you again:  either penetrating, or exploding.

 

I only have time for really short reply.

So penetration and explosion is possible, just not penetration without explosion.

(That's what I thought, too. And that's what I was talking about.)

But hey, I just tested it real quick and it's not true!

 

I tested it on the dev branch because I just happened to had it downloaded. I can't tell if they have changed anything in this regard, but I don't think so.

Here, look at that and test it yourself:

link (20mm HE)

The shells will penetrate the panels without dealing any damage to the guys nearby, but will explode at the building and deal damage there. There is also no explosion effect at the panels.

 

link (30mm MP)

I thought there is something different, but it's just the effect. There will be an explosion effect when the shells penetrates the panels, but there seems to be no damage at all!

The damage will occur only at the spot the bullet is unable to penetrate!

 

I have no clue how BIS did that, but it shows they absolutely can do it. They can get us (nearly) realistic ballistics - even in case of exploding shells. 

It seems they just need to apply this on the remaining medium and large caliber shells.

So Devs please. fix the shells which still lack those features!

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

So penetration and explosion is possible, just not penetration without explosion.

No, vice versa.You are confusing yourself. There is projectile termination. Three kinds - termination on velocity = 0, termination on first impact, termination from time>TimetoLive. And there is damage. Damage gets caused by every impact.

Amount of damage depends on velocity deviation from typical speed (muzzle velocity), on % of speed lost in the penetrated body and on explosive factor. Projectile pens Plate A, loses 50% speed -> some damage (not 50%) is caused to Plate and surrounding;  Projectile pens Plate B, loses rest of speed -> again damage to plate and surrounding.

 

You positioned the guys on the wrong side. Damage is on the entry side, not on exit side because exit side is occluded by geometry lod of the wood panel.

i have tested enough to know that what i say is correct.

[pils 49]

11 minutes ago, x3kj said:

No, vice versa.You are confusing yourself. There is projectile termination. Three kinds - termination on velocity = 0, termination on first impact, termination from time>TimetoLive. And there is damage. 

Amount of damage depends on velocity deviation from typical speed (muzzle velocity), on % of speed lost in the penetrated body and on explosive factor. Projectile pens Plate A, loses 50% speed -> some damage (not 50%) is caused to Plate and surrounding;  Projectile pens Plate B, loses rest of speed -> again damage to plate and surrounding.

2) you positioned the guys on the wrong side. Damage is on the entry side, not on exit side because exit side is occluded by geometry lod of the wood panel.

i have tested enough to know that what i say is correct.

 

Uhm, the guys in the 2nd and 3rd row are on the entry (and exit) side.

There was zero damage. I fired dozens of rounds at different distances - zero damage - unless it was a direct hit.

 

Test it yourself already. Apparently you rely on obsolete data.

[teabagginpeople 398]

toggle zoom issue.

 

There is an issue with the "toggle zoom in" when using cqb scopes or on long range their secondary . using the toggle zoom in 3rd person it will function properly in and out as you hit the key. but if you try toggle zoom in a aco scope it will get stuck on zoom in. further key press do nothing to zoom it back out. 

[peegee 118]

37 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

toggle zoom issue.

 

There is an issue with the "toggle zoom in" when using cqb scopes or on long range their secondary . using the toggle zoom in 3rd person it will function properly in and out as you hit the key. but if you try toggle zoom in a aco scope it will get stuck on zoom in. further key press do nothing to zoom it back out. 

That's because it's literally "toggle zoom in", you'd need to use zoom out controls too.

Use "Zoom in temporary" if you want the normal behaviour.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

This is my 1000th post here at BI-Forums and I'd just like to say that it's amazing that since the first day that dev-branch patches started being released (way back in A2 when you had to manually download them each day) we still get to see nearly daily improvements to a game that's now 4 years old.  Even better is that there's still updates and content planned into early next year!

 

Some people read newspapers in the morning with their breakfast....I go for the Dev-branch change log. :)

[insumsnoy 4]

5 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

toggle zoom issue.

 

There is an issue with the "toggle zoom in" when using cqb scopes or on long range their secondary . using the toggle zoom in 3rd person it will function properly in and out as you hit the key. but if you try toggle zoom in a aco scope it will get stuck on zoom in. further key press do nothing to zoom it back out. 

Im sure this is normal behaviour. It has worked like that since for years.

[teabagginpeople 398]

7 hours ago, peegee said:

That's because it's literally "toggle zoom in"..

You seem to misunderstand the " literal meaning of toggle.

 

a key or command that is operated the same way but with opposite effect on successive occasions.

 

 

7 hours ago, peegee said:

 you'd need to use zoom out controls too..

But see you don't on any other instance (3rd person/ in a jet vehicle)  when using " toggle" zoom. Only time it does not function as a " toggle is on using the aco or any similar optic.

 

7 hours ago, peegee said:

 

 

 

 

Use "Zoom in temporary" if you want the normal behaviour.

This means holding down a key. And does not address the lack of toggle function on the aco optics.

 

2 hours ago, insumsnoy said:

Im sure this is normal behaviour. It has worked like that since for years.

I know, it has been like this for years. Not necessarily how it was ment to be. Perhaps just not pointed out. Perhaps there is a reasonable explanation. 

[peegee 118]

14 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

I know, it has been like this for years. Not necessarily how it was ment to be. Perhaps just not pointed out. Perhaps there is a reasonable explanation. 

I was awake at night remembering how the toggling behaves, you are right, standard behaviour should be how you described. Not really what it has been for years.

It just might be a forgotten issue. Time to write a feedback ticket?

E: Before, I always understood "Toggle zoom in" as in literally it only toggles the zoom in, and never out. Since this has been that way forever, it  even works the same in DayZ SA.

[teabagginpeople 398]

2 hours ago, peegee said:

I was awake at night remembering how the toggling behaves, you are right, standard behaviour should be how you described. Not really what it has been for years.

so basically the toggle zoom function works as should on 3rd person, or if you are in cockpit of a jet or driving a vehicle, it will zoom in on the first press then out on the second press. but if you try use the toggle zoom function when in optics using like iron sight, aco, holosight, or the secondary of a long range scope. it zooms in on first press but then jams there.

 

perhaps a dev can look into it. it might be a quick fix. 

[KiTooN 63]

Can we start peeling the Orange yet ? See what I did there ?

[takehomethecup 13]

2 hours ago, KiTooN said:

Can we start peeling the Orange yet ? See what I did there ?

Boo.

[jerminhu 25]

Has the wrong presentation of gunsights on jets been fixed in the dev branch?

[oukej 2910]

3 hours ago, jerminhu said:

Has the wrong presentation of gunsights on jets been fixed in the dev branch?

Hey, the Target Lead Indication has been added as a part of Targeting improvements a year ago with UI-like visuals. It's main goal has been an aiming cue for anti-air platforms. The functionality has also been used for other assets where we felt some form lead computing is appropriate. There has been no change in how things work only through HUD improvements the aid visuals have been ported over from UI layer into MFD (HUD/HMD) layer. (They still stay in UI when looking through optics.)
But it's still the old TLI, only with changed visuals. So - a feature, not a bug ;) Saying that - we do acknowledge that the TLI is quite suboptimal for jets use.
Indicating where the bullets will pass through at a specific distance (fixed or target) would be preferred but it also requires a new LCOS feature to be made. As for that we'd like it but we can't promise it.