Greek island protests inclusion in video game

[PELHAM 10]

My thoughts only:

The Greeks have some sort of national neurosis about invasion. There is a perceived notion that the Turks want to invade them and are at 24hrs notice to do so.

While there is a history of tensions between the 2 countries, particularly over Cyprus, I doubt it's been true for many years but there are extreme tensions in certain areas. Greek jets intercept Turkish jets on a daily basis and it's not polite stuff as is illustrated in the list of incidents below.

I have travelled to many Aegean islands and you see the same sort of thing. The sky is full of Greek jets on a daily basis, particularly in the Volos, Skiathos, Skopelos, Skyros, Limnos area.

If you know what to look for you will see patriot missile batteries, radar installations on hilltops, tanks on exercise and much more.

-Once when I was fishing on a deserted beach a dozen bored troopers asked to borrow my fishing rod so they could pose for pictures and make it look like they were having a great time on national service.

-On Rhodes I was stuck in a traffic jam because a tank had thrown a track and skidded, blocking the main road.

-At Iraklion in Crete our plane was delayed on take off due to military jets on a scramble.

-Volos 'Airport' is in fact a military air base and they have ZSU-23 AA guns all over the perimeter and the by the entrance.

They are particularly sensitive about all this. If you like hiking in the hills and taking pictures you would be wise to ask your tour guide/locals if there are any areas you should avoid. Several tourists have been detained as 'spies' and some were even put on trial. We were told very sternly by a worried looking tour guide not to take any pictures of Volos airport. She actually walked up and down the bus to make sure all cameras and phones were put away.

When I heard about Arma3 and Limnos I raised an eyebrow and briefly wondered if the locals would be happy about that. It looks like they still think there is a security risk. I don't know if it's real or imagined but all this was entirely predictable. Greek politicians have used the national rivalry with Turkey to get their voices heard for many years.

You can read about Turkish / Greek tensions here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek%E2%80%93Turkish_relations#Aegean_Sea

Aegean incidents:

During the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, two Turkish F-102's were shot down by a pair of Greek F-5A's.[5]

On 18 June 1992, a Greek Mirage F1CG crashed near the island of Saint Eustratius in the Northern Aegean, during a low-altitude dogfight with two Turkish F-16's. Greek pilot Nikolaos Sialmas was killed in the crash.

On 8 September 1996, a pair of Greek Mirage 2000's intercepted a pair of Turkish F-16's over the Aegean. One of the Turkish F-16's was shot down by a Greek Mirage 2000 piloted by Thanos Grivas.[6] Turkish pilot Nail ErdoÄŸan was killed whereas back seater pilot Osman Cicekli bailed out and was rescued by a Greek helicopter.

On 23 May 2006, a Greek F-16 and a Turkish F-16 collided near the island of Karpathos during a Turkish reconnaissance flight.[7] Greek pilot Kostas Iliakis was killed, and the Turkish pilot bailed out and was rescued by a cargo ship. Greek Defence Minister E. Meimarakis stated at the Greek National Television (NET) and the morning programme 'Proti Grammi' that it was a a Turkish spying operation against the Greek island of Crete.

Edited September 28, 2011 by PELHAM

[-GR-Operative 10]

Countries spying their neighbors is something pretty common. It happens all the time, some countries are sensitive about it, but they can't stop the satellites, commercial or military.

[jblackrupert 14]

I seriously doupt Turkey is going to run out to store for a copy of Arma 3 so they can spy on Greece.

I'm sure theres much more valuable data sitting on Google earth and Flickr.

[JdB 151]

I seriously doupt Turkey is going to run out to store for a copy of Arma 3 so they can spy on Greece.

Turkey is going to get a license for VBS3 so they can run state of the art wargame exercises to practice invading Limnos Lemnos so they get it right the first time when that long overdue war finally kicks off

BIS will supply Turkey with a unique character free of charge, a Greek mayor named Hantonia Fatzidiusmanis that surrenders to every other character, including his own simulated dog, like a real surrender monkey. [/sarcasm]

Edited September 29, 2011 by JdB

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Maybe this secret weapon we've heard snippets about in A3 really exists? Would explain why it's such a sensitive topic...

[JdB 151]

Maybe this secret weapon we've heard snippets about in A3 really exists? Would explain why it's such a sensitive topic...

Would that be the insanity-guided super-duper anti-bureaucracy missilette with designer paintjob projected to cost €50.000.000 to develop and field but ends up costing twice as much per missile before it even starts it's production run?

If so, the enemy is done for, as is your own side due to bankruptcy. Would be a fun development for ArmA3, end the conflict before a certain date, or the forces are withdrawn because Greece went bankrupt.

After ArmA2: OA comes ArmA3: OB

ArmA3: Operation Bailout in stores now! For a limited time only with special edition T-shirt "I was there when Greece went bankrupt, and all my now worthless pile of Euros could buy me was this crappy T-shirt"

Edited September 29, 2011 by JdB

[NeMeSiS 11]

Whats the bet that everyone in Europe already has high detail maps of everything of every country already?

maps.google.com

[JdB 151]

maps.google.com

Get that highly classified information out of here, the future of Greece is at stake here! :butbut:

Surely the only threat to Greece can come from across the Aegean, and not from it's own incompetent and complacent politicians and tax-dodging early retirement population. Seeing as the whole of Greece is going to be owned by the rest of Europe soon, I wonder if the Turks would be interested in buying Limnos and the Greek part of Cyprus for a reasonable price :D

I remember a competition that BIS once held, about the best place for an AT team to set up an ambush, to be picked from a picture. Would "Predict where a Turkish invasion would be most likely to succeed" be an interesting new competition or ArmA3?

Edited September 29, 2011 by JdB

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

JbD, you took my post in a completely different direction, and completely lost me in the process.

You get a cookie.

... I keep calling animal control on that thing. Let's try that again.

My apologies, that damn big eared rat ate the last one. You'll have to settle for a fig newton.

:D

[JdB 151]

JbD, you took my post in a completely different direction, and completely lost me in the process.

You get a cookie.

I thought you meant that sarcastically/ironically/comically. Oh well, thanks for the cookie. Too bad it was stale ...

On a more serious note, wouldn't any other government official have told this mayor that raising this issue might not be the best idea, making them look even less troubled by real problems like the state being on the edge of bankruptcy, left-wing terrorist groups or many of it's citizens not having paid their taxes in years if ever, rather than imaginary ones like an imminent Turkish invasion? All PR is good PR?

"Limnos, the island where every day feels like it could be your last*"

* Bulletproof vest (UN-Blue or SittingDuck-Red/White) and tinfoil-hat to guard against imminent Turkish aggression sold separately.

Edited September 29, 2011 by JdB

[Rovka 14]

"Limnos, the island where every day feels like it could be your last*"

*...to guard against imminent Turkish aggression sold separately.

Turks? Hah! Tourists you mean: Now included in your overpaid stay on Limnos: Reenactment of the moar-war. Livefire and ammo per attendee provided for, sponsored by whole EU as ordered by Brussels EU-looney-clique.

Topscore Mayor-slaying bonuskill pricemoney is to be directly handed over to the executive organisation of IMF Greek-division's Financial Fraude-bureau on behalf of the EU-backed Ministry of Financial Wastelayers..

Anyone here having direct connection to BI-studios?? I would like to ask for working flame-pire/burning-stake inclusion, or atleast suggest inclusion of flamethrower to hunt down, arrest (and torture!) and finally roast Limnos' moron Mayor artificially (left) alive!

That Mayor has no right to "protect" "his" island or local village he calls his.. Volgograd (formerly known as Stalingrad) elderly citizens never complained being artificially bombed trillions of times all over again.

Berlinners neither. Nor do those French folks at Vierville-sur-Mer for having their beach artificially littered with corpses and blood on daily computerized basis.

Btw. BIS should include an (part of) Athens map. Parliament therein included!!

Oh hey Mayor!? You know you're fail, when you don't recognize a /care-situation! If that's what your type of folks like to do so much, when it comes to paying your taxation-dues. Go ahead, do it some more, you can do better, then dirty leeching of free exclusive BIS-initiated PR whilst atleast "your" speck on the Earth you call home actually is included in (what you call) "some game". We ain't talking 56kb/s EU-sponsored CoD MP lag-fest here ya know??

Edited September 29, 2011 by Thani '82

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I did mean it as a joke. I think I misinterpreted your reply. :)

[jblackrupert 14]

Dear Mayor.....

[mrcash2009 0]

I think this is BIS doing Borat stunt for promotion :)

[4 IN 1 0]

BI staff should be careful when they plan a holiday trip to Greek, because, well, they are "spy" now.

[PELHAM 10]

BI staff should be careful when they plan a holiday trip to Greek, because, well, they are "spy" now.

Um yes they probably should - it took 2 years and around £30,000 each for these people to clear their names. They were facing 25 years just because 1 of them had taken a photo of a helicopter. They were part of an organised tour and had permission from the Greek Military for the trip.

telegraph.co.uk

Plane-spotter Britons face spying charge

By Paul Anast in Athens

12:01AM GMT 12 Nov 2001

TWELVE British plane spotters are to appear in a Greek court today charged with espionage after allegedly taking photographs of a military air base.

The group of aviation enthusiasts, 11 men and a woman, were on a plane-spotting tour when they were arrested on Thursday in the south-eastern town of Kalamata.

Greek authorities have frequently detained and released foreign tourists in the past for photographing military installations.

The week-long trip was organised by Touchdown Tours, which arranges excursions for military aircraft enthusiasts. Paul Coppin, from Mildenhall, Suffolk, who runs the firm, was one of the people being held.

Others arrested include Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London, Mick Keane and Steve Rush, the Foreign Office confirmed.

Mr Norris's wife, Perdita, said the Greek authorities had accused the group of acting suspiciously in front of an air force building.

Mrs Norris said: "It is a joke that he is suspected of spying. It's unbelievable. When they came to leave the base they were arrested. Peter said he couldn't see any reason for them to be arrested because they had permission to be there from the Greek air force.

"They had been told not to take any pictures of a certain airfield, so they hadn't. When they were arrested they were told they had been seen acting suspiciously, looking at buildings.

"Before Kalamata they had been to the old civil airport in Athens, and someone had taken a photo of a helicopter in front of a building. I don't think anybody had said they couldn't photograph it, but that photograph was one of the things they are looking at."

Mr Norris, who works for an air freight company in Thorpe, Surrey, had been on similar trips before, one of them with Touchdown Tours.

Mrs Norris said: "He has loved looking at planes since he was a child and it is just a hobby for him."

The spotters, together with two Dutch citizens in the group, were arrested after going to a public event to mark a Greek air force holiday at a nearby military airfield.

[Montanaro 0]

I had never heard of the island before it was to be in Arma 3. Now I've seen tons of pictures, learned about its history and consider it a possible vacation spot for the future. I assume that was the general reaction of most Arma fans.

Plus One

[rangerpl 13]

Hear that, Mr. Mayor? It's the sound of the smallest violin in the world playing the saddest song in the world.

*picture of Marek Spanel rubbing his fingers together goes here*

[mattxr 9]

When the game is released we should all send a letter to the mayor ..

"All your base are belong to us" with attached screenshots :P

Send the video too hahaha

[nodunit 397]

the rule on military is a bit confusing to me, I've heard it said that they are very strict, yet photo's of they're equipment, aircraft included are hardly scarce.

And lets not antagonize.

[Cripsis 10]

ARMA 3 mission objective - drop napalm on Mayor's office. :D

[vilas 477]

but i wonder how would you felt if such real-life location was your town and other kids would be bombing your house, hmm?

real-life locations of course look most realistic, but in all countries for example military locations are secret , in some countries soldiers can shot if you enter base and take photos

so why are you surprised that someone protests ? it is normal in case if location contains military objects which are secret in 90% of world

TWELVE British plane spotters are to appear in a Greek court today charged with espionage after allegedly taking photographs of a military air base.

ye, i wounder what would happen if they would try to enter some US airforce base ? probably would been shot like people near Area-51 and such like, isn't it ?

it is normal that "military" area is protected by the law regulations

in some countries you can be arrested, in some, shot, what's surprising about it ?

during Cold War soldiers would start shot seeing guys with cameras, it is normal,

noone would be asking question seeing guy with camera and telephoto lens near military base as far as i know from 80s, but aim rifle and that all, it is normal,

in my country you also would be arrested if you would be taking photos at places where it is forbidden

in US with their property law, probably taking photos of civilian property would result the same,

so i don't understand what is surprising you,

try enter any military base speaking "i wanna take photo of this tank for the game"...

i remember OFP addonmaking when i tried to enter military base to take photos of truck and jeep, i never get permission to even take photo of AKMS cause "all is secret"

probably only minority of countries are not sensitive in such issues like taking photos,

but most of countries do protect it , it is funny hear such voices here, military related game forum, NATO members,

afaik in NATO many things are more strict than they were in Warsaw Pact

Edited January 30, 2012 by vilas

[Nicholas 5]

I can also understand why they would be worried about it. ArmA III could be used as a tool against them in the future. You never know.

But I don't understand why people would be prosecuted for taking pictures of the base while on tour of the base.

I went on a tour of a U.S. Air Force base about 5 years ago and was able to take pictures without any issue.

In the U.S. there is no expectation of privacy in public (Except public bathrooms and telephone booths of course). People can legally take a picture of a house or military base as it is seen from a public road or sidewalk.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Nicholas

[maddogx 13]

Vilas, read the article properly. They had permission to be there, and they even had permission to take photos - just not of a certain airfield, which they apparently didn't. The greeks claim they arrested them because they were seen to be "acting suspicious", which seems like a load of bollocks.

[katipo66 94]

but i wonder how would you felt if such real-life location was your town and other kids would be bombing your house, hmm?

True words bro...

Imagine the shit storm if some middle eastern gaming company was to do the same to a US city or even an Israeli town? .. fill the gaps.