ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[5133p39 12]

I am just trying to understand why you allow such liberties to digital products because they come with a TOS (that sometimes can't even stand on a court of law), in regards to physical products. And it is already happening with movies and music. Try to give or borrow part of your iTunes music/video library, you can't. So you buy a DVD movie and you can give it away, you buy a iTunes movie and is stuck with you forever until you break the TOS.

People are complaining for their gradual loss of their consumer rights they had and I don't understand how you can't see it.

Example, take any old game (console/pc) in physical form you can give it to your child/nephew and they can play with no problem. Now comes the digital way, I pay the same money which I am only allowed to play it as long as I don't break any TOS rules and of course I can't give it to someone else. Doing so would break the rules.

Can't you really not see any difference, anything that will make some of us complain?

Ofcourse i see the difference, but i didnt yet seen enough practical difference to serve as a reason to resent Steam as a distribution platform for ArmA 3.

Honestly i don't care much about what is written in Steam's EULA, or terms and conditions, or whatever - i know its scary reading, it allways is, but what else can you expect from a company originating in a country where they must specifically write things like "dont put animals inside" on microwaves, and where somebody could fill and actually WIN a law suit against Mc Donalds for pouring a hot coffee on himself :)

It's understandable Valve must protect themselves from all possible bullshit anyone can throw at them.

What i do care about is what they actually do, and how their SW works - so far i was perfectly ok with Steam, but now when i discovered that the "Offline Mode" is not what it seemed to be, i am not so inclined towards it anymore,

but i still think it will be ok, because i do not believe it can end like this.

[zoog 18]

Lol what? Tell me now wich few places are cheaper then Steam? Steam is the cheapest place to get games so far i know.

Here in Europe play.com is usually much cheaper. On release date get a PC game for 30 euros instead of 50 or 60 euros for the same game on the Steam store.

Just curious why BIS didn't thought about their own store as an alternative online store for selling A3 and their new projects?

it's not about the store front (but of course this is of importance), it's about steamworks and the accompanying features for both players and developers. The BIS storefront does not magically include the steamworks features. They will however still sell arma 3 at the BIS store (which will be for example just they steam key).

[rye1 21]

Im counting a lot of bullshit votes for "no" with newly created accounts. Come on people at least act like adults - or cheat more professional... :j:

Ban all rights for new comers. They must be purged. This is the only way... to save this poll.

[memphisbelle 99]

...'m even more disappointed from BI. Never I have thought they would betray their loyal fanbase that much in order to save some time and money. And yes to me this betrayal.

This is the by far most reason that makes me disappointed about BI as well. 12 years of loyal fanbase membership will facepunched and thrown away. ArmA CWC, ArmA and ArmA2 have always been special Games for Special people.

I don't hate steam. I actually think it is quite a good possibility to handle my games. The only different, from my point of view is, that ArmA don't fit into this steam universe. As someone here already said, we cant do anythings against this. BI will push it through and we will only have the choice to either take it or leave it. That´s why I voted with yes. I want to see whether my concerns are warrantable or not...One thing will happen for sure, the BI Community will never be the one I´ve entered 12 years ago...in June 2001, when I purchased OFP...thats really too bad

Edited February 24, 2013 by MemphisBelle

[chortles 263]

Here in Europe play.com is usually much cheaper. On release date get a PC game for 30 euros instead of 50 or 60 euros for the same game on the Steam store.

Does play.com carry any Steam digital download keys as its form of selling Steam games, or are its Steam games all physical discs with keys inside the retail boxes?

I know that GameStop for a while now has been selling "wallet codes" for a number of sites so that people can buy stuff with cash or store credit and thus no credit card/billing information required -- PSN and XBL were obvious (both physical codes and eventually digital codes) but then they added (and notably they promoted the adding of) Steam Wallet digital codes, and I believe that they also sell Amazon and Google Play gift cards in-store (when in stock)... oh hey, the option to potentially buy Arma 3 from Amazon with cash (turned into Amazon gift cards) if GameStop doesn't carry the retail disc again like they did with Arma 2! :D

ArmA CWC, ArmA and ArmA2 have always been special Games for Special people.

I must warn you, this can be read in a way that you did not intend...

[nettrucker 142]

Someone remembers this poll?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?115256

[Kuskov 1]

It would be a non-issue if we could simply purchase the game from Steam and then go on our merry way to do as we please with it, but it's the fact that Steam insist on interfering and intruding in my affairs that pisses me off. It's my hard earned money, I'll be damned if I'm going pay full price for a game then be required to 'ask permission' from Steam everytime I want to play it. That's not SPLENDID, that's FUCKED UP THE ASS!

[tonygrunt 10]

Here in Europe play.com is usually much cheaper. On release date get a PC game for 30 euros instead of 50 or 60 euros for the same game on the Steam store.

I would be a little wary of play.com, they are now only a virtual mall for other business:

Play.com has announced that it is closing its retail division and switching to an eBay-style auction business model following the government’s efforts to close up the massive tax loophole sitting off the south coast that is the island of Jersey.

[chortles 263]

It's my hard earned money, I'll be damned if I'm going pay full price for a game then be required to 'ask permission' from Steam everytime I want to play it.

... if you feel so strongly about it, then why even assume the paying of "launch date" price, especially when some forums members here have already been going "now I'll wait for a sale"? It seems that your privacy uber alles principles demand you to boycott Steam and Arma 3, in which case you can just go right ahead following them and I can go right ahead not seeing what the fuss is about. Were somehow all the other games unworthy of being "spared" of Steamworks until your oh so precious Arma 3 is revealed to be Steamworks? :rolleyes:

I do not take issue with those for whom their principles say, "I may buy this game in the future, just not at launch date price".

[dunedain 48]

Im counting a lot of bullshit votes for "no" with newly created accounts. Come on people at least act like adults - or cheat more professional... :j:

That's because we are a mature community full of principles... "joke" That poll is BS anyway, I wonder how many of those who voted "no" only did to whine and will pre order the game anyway. Nothing different from the L4D2 and MW2 boycotts.

[jw custom 56]

Im counting a lot of bullshit votes for "no" with newly created accounts. Come on people at least act like adults - or cheat more professional... :j:

Could be bullshit could also be the same people you see sign up here whenever the face a problem with ArmA they can't solve on their own. Check IP's and ban accordingly!

That's because we are a mature community full of principles. That poll is BS anyway, I wonder how many of those who voted "no" only did to whine and will pre order the game anyway...

I voted freaking no because the poll is incomplete, it needs a 'maybe' option. Now stop whine and accept not everybody is in luuuuve with steam.

[PuFu 4591]

By the way, for everyone who's paranoid about someone stealing your precious mods and then uploading them onto Steam Workshop... did you know that being a Steamworks game does not guarantee that the game will have Steam Workshop? :p There's way more Steamworks games than there are Steam Workshop-supported games; such "no Steam Workshop Steamworks games" include all of the Call of Duty games post-World at War, Sleeping Dogs, Darksiders II, Napoleon: Total War... so if you're one of those for whom the whole exclusive DRM/third-party client aspect is not a deal-breaker but concern over your intellectual property rights is... then why not demand to BI/Maruk that Arma 3 be one of those "no Steam Workshop Steamworks games"? :D

Listen lad: i know for someone like yourself this is a non-issue, but for a lot of others this could be quite a deal-breaker. This is not paranoia.

Of course that a game is on Steamworks, it doesn't necesary mean it should be on Steam Workshop. But i have a feeling BIS going all steam ahead has an interest into the sort of service similar to Steam Works. Remember Sickboy had a face to face with BIS regarding a possible SixUpdater implementation into A3. I would say getting addons more easily based on server allowanced and mission setting is quite a priority for BIS, so i see no reason for them to pass away the Steam Workshop.

Besides, as you see here, you cannot really demand something out of a BI anyways. You can ask nicely, but that doesn't really mean all that much if it doesn't fit withing a larger, long term business plan.

I would have thought this sort of thing would be common knowledge by now. Seems i was wrong, at least concerning yourself.

As DayZ mod being on the Steam storefront shows, Steam Workshop is not the only hosting solution on Steam, and DayZ is not just an exception to "everything else is Half-Life 2/Source engine mods"; there's a mod of the Killing Floor standalone and a pair of Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 mods, which does indicate that it's not all "Steam Workshop forever" from hereon out. If Arma 3 never gets Steam Workshop (despite the inevitable pressure) and modding is still supported in a manner similar to before, then I imagine that sites such as Armaholic could continue much as before.

Even with current system of hosting community originated content on websites such as armaholic or community provided mirrors for tools such as SIX being available besides Steam Workshop, if there would be a centralized place to download those from (there is still an issue regarding allowed sized and bandwidth per user/mod via steam workshop, i am not aware of any constrains, but then again we all know addons for ArmA can each well beyond 1gb), i can bet my hat that would be the place to go for content and not the other way around.

So someone was accusing the "yes" voters in the other thread's poll of being alts when that was basically 80% yes vs. 20% no, now you're saying that so many of the "no" voters in this poll are the alts/cheaters? Interesting, tell me more. :icon_twisted:

No matter, these sort of polls over BIF are not all that accurate, since there is a huge part of the (alive) community around ArmA franchise that doesn't even have an account here, or if they do they don't check those forums each day. It is by no means representative in any way. To be honest, i would say that from a total of ArmA owners, especially long time users dating back to OFP, there would be a lot more answering No than yes. I would go as far and say that, from my own POV, a more accurate result would be 66 yes, 33 no. But then again, there is not way to say precisely and only BI will know on released if it was a good business call or not (it should be due to extended reach steam provides anyhow).

[dunedain 48]

I voted freaking no because the poll is incomplete, it needs a 'maybe' option. Now stop whine and accept not everybody is in luuuuve with steam.

I don't whine neither am I in love with Steam. I just find it pathetic that you guys created so many new accounts solely to boost the "no" option, don't you have better to do of your time? It's not like it serves your cause or will change anything. But whatever, I leave you haters at your whining contest while I play some games.

[dm 9]

Im counting a lot of bullshit votes for "no" with newly created accounts. Come on people at least act like adults - or cheat more professional... :j:

Given that when I logged on at 8:30 this morning it was 82% yes and 12% no, and given that [i'm told] almost all of the recent no votes are from accounts with names like dchgd, ddgdfg, dfgcdgdfg etc etc, is there some possibility to:

1. reset the poll to before it was raped

b. find out who is signing up all these dumb accounts and ban him

III. maybe extend the "you cant post html links, pictures or other shit until you have more than a couple of posts" to voting in polls too?

[tonygrunt 10]

Even with current system of hosting community originated content on websites such as armaholic or community provided mirrors for tools such as SIX being available besides Steam Workshop, if there would be a centralized place to download those from (there is still an issue regarding allowed sized and bandwidth per user/mod via steam workshop, i am not aware of any constrains, but then again we all know addons for ArmA can each well beyond 1gb), i can bet my hat that would be the place to go for content and not the other way around.

I think Skyrim mods have a size limit of 100MB and TF2 mods of 10MB, with those sizes most ArmA addons will be served from community hosted websites.

[NoRailgunner 0]

As we stand on the verge of revealing our plans for Arma 3, there is one big topic we'd like to get out there first.... we were not happy with how the project was going.... seeing what was going well, what was not, and coming up with plans to fix it all. The mission set by our CEO, Marek Španěl, was clear: do all we can to release Arma 3 in 2013.

So A3 will be more or less rushed out (with exclusive support of Steam/Steamworks) just for the sake of releasing A3 in 2013? Where is the other big topic about A3 content/ingame stuff? Doubt that someone is able to play/enjoy a distribution software/system like a game.... Oh, wait this is just BIS and their very own and "special" product advertising and marketing style - again. :rolleyes:

[down8 30]

Well apparently, that wouldn't be good enough. They need to speed up dat deb time!!

The store is not the only that requires development time as they stated in the dev blog. Some people continue ignoring that they were passing through problems in the development, they are a business and have to earn money, and Steam is a simple and convenient platform to get those features resolved.

But it's more important their ideology,whims and "principles" about a third party sofware used without too many problems by millions of people, with sick sales, a lot of indie and mainstream games,mod support and easy management. They don't care about the studio who has made their favourite games for years, with dedication and attention to the community, are having problems and could lose money if they don'take advantage of a solution, that in addition, can improve aspects of the game like multiplayer, beta patching, updating and simplicity of the mod management for all the players.

Im counting a lot of bullshit votes for "no" with newly created accounts. Come on people at least act like adults - or cheat more professional... :j:

Nuff said...

Edited February 24, 2013 by Down8

[rye1 21]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAH

too good

[NeuroFunker 11]

yaaaah

[chrisb 196]

http://i.imgur.com/nwJozDM.jpg

This post/sig sort of sums it up. :mad:

The erosion of consumer rights seems to be more important to some, than the erosion of human rights. The internet has brought about the erosion of human rights over the many years it has been around, write anything, show anything, say anything and film anything.

Its of little concern to some, however, take away there consumer right, or seem to, and up goes the defences.

No one could ever take an argument intelligently or even seriously from this type of internet user.

People worry regards Steam !

Edit: Oh and for those of you with no intelligence at all, look up the word ‘Spastic’ when used in this way..:mad:

Edited February 24, 2013 by ChrisB

[Gunter Severloh 3950]

Would it be realistic, or right to petition this decision to be only steam for Arma3?

I mean we already have a poll, but a petition would basically gather a list of names of the community that do not want Arma3 steam only.

So a petition stating that we want at least another option independent of steam to buy Arma3, this does not mean for example that if a digital download

option is made available that it still requires steam, rather its independent and has nothing to do with steam.

is this againsted any rules?

Would there be an interest in doing this?

[Kuskov 1]

Would it be realistic, or right to petition this decision to be only steam for Arma3?

I really doubt that BIS would give a rat's ass about a petition, it's painfully clear that they are trying to dump ARMA3 like a dirty sock and move the focus to DayZ.

The people that refuse to purchase through Steam aren't simply protesting to try and get attention, they just genuinly don't think its worth being assfucked.

[dragon01 902]

As long as mods have no size limit and the implementation isn't bugged, I can live with ArmA III on Steam, especially if it'd mean the end of language-locked regional versions (I hate playing in Polish). I'll still buy a boxed version though, just to have a paper map and manual on hand.

[nettrucker 142]

Would it be realistic, or right to petition this decision to be only steam for Arma3?

I mean we already have a poll, but a petition would basically gather a list of names of the community that do not want Arma3 steam only.

So a petition stating that we want at least another option independent of steam to buy Arma3, this does not mean for example that if a digital download

option is made available that it still requires steam, rather its independent and has nothing to do with steam.

is this againsted any rules?

Would there be an interest in doing this?

The decision is made. We have to accept and deal with it. They are running a business. The loss of long standing customers is irrelevant in terms of being able to open a bigger consumer audience using steam as exclusive distributing platform.

[tonygrunt 10]

As long as mods have no size limit and the implementation isn't bugged, I can live with ArmA III on Steam, especially if it'd mean the end of language-locked regional versions (I hate playing in Polish). I'll still buy a boxed version though, just to have a paper map and manual on hand.

Mods for other steam workshop games have size limits and steam serves language-locked regional versions (Polish being one of them). Black Ops II has a thread with a how-to using unofficial mods to turn a Polish version to English.