Which recoil model do you prefer?

[afp 1]

New one, getting 25-30% (especially at the AK's) toned down and optionally randomizing the direction that the weapon moves to when firing.

same

There is no other way to simulate the need to re-aim after each shot...

PS Giving the experience with ArmA1 recoils, I can tell that they should be toned down a bit more, because on slow systems or laggy areas it becomes even more difficult to rezero - they are so FPS dependant. So it should be some minimal random direction after each shot for 5.56 and a bit more for 7.62.

Edited July 4, 2010 by afp

[Beagle 684]

What nemesis says.

It is not a concient choice to move your gun down. You do it automatically, especially a trained soldier. Though what still happens, is a slight offset due to the automatic and conditioned muscle reaction. So the weapon should not climb, but leave the crosshair at a small random offset tot he original point aimed at.

as a trained gamer you will accomodate easyly and bring the aim down yourself. And believe it or not...not any soldier is well trained...some have more time behind a desk than behind a gun.

Its funny how so much here suppose all soldier are soem kind of special forces...I've got news for you...95% are not.

[Wolfstriked 11]

@carlgustaffa,the 7.62 rifles in RH weapons though are way harder than the 5.45.Single shot from an M4A1 and it recoils said amount while single shot from an M14 looks like its 4 times that amount.Auto control is horrible and even single shot is annoying.Twice the amount would be fine...the caliber is not 4 times as powerful as the weak 5.45.;)Twice the muzzle rise at just 5 meters translates to a much high impact point already.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Wolfstriked

[Sosna 0]

I prefer the old method, but I would make it a difficulty or gameplay option "aim recenters" on/off.

[Panzer Jager 10]

I don't think he was able to hit two targets at 1000m like that, the way we currently do in Arma.

Your video's shooter is holding the weapon by the magazine, which means muzzle climb will be higher.

These are two different people, which is a big part when it comes to recoil, but how you hold a weapon may effect muzzle climb. This is why grips provide more benefit than just their (tiny) boost in weight.

[gossamersolid 155]

Everybody is complaining that the gun goes upwards and in real life that doesn't happen because you bring it back down yourself... well hello, but your argument is very flawed. YOU bring the gun down after every shot, and in the game, the mouse control is like your hand.

I personally love it as people won't be able to spam weapons like the DMR anymore, they'll actually have to aim. Those who don't like it, should just get better at games because the recoil is actually pretty low compared to most of the FPSes that have recoil.

[afp 1]

There is no other way to simulate the need to re-aim after each shot...

PS Giving the experience with ArmA1 recoils, I can tell that they should be toned down a bit more, because on slow systems or laggy areas it becomes even more difficult to rezero - they are so FPS dependant. So it should be some minimal random direction after each shot for 5.56 and a bit more for 7.62.

There should be also another thing to consider, the weapons sway is practically non existent in OA, thats why in vanilla OA or ArmA 2 you don't need to reaim at all. So the final "recoil" should be a happy combination of random weapon direction plus a realistic weapon sway while standing so it takes 1-2-3 second to re-aim.

Here is a video I made in ArmA 1, AK103 (7.62), target at 100m, it takes some time to reaim plus you can't be too steady while standing. The weapon sway is from ACE 1 (I think is very realistic), recoil is mine.

5pXTB0iUBfY

Bellow the original ArmA 2 recoil, very few to do with realism...

BS8-uOO7AnU

Edited July 4, 2010 by afp

[Q1184 0]

Love the new recoil system. It's not overdone (as it might appear if you just watched the video in the opening post). Maybe recoil values might be tweaked here and there, but it's config work, not the system itself. However I agree with BrainBug's suggestions here - the direction the weapon ends up in might be randomized a bit (I believe increased sway can accomplish it to some extent with the present mechanics already).

[shataan 1]

I find it odd having to pull the mouse back to keep the reticle on target. Seems a tad unnatural atm. Imho it should LOOK convincing and FEEL right.

[Beagle 684]

I find it odd having to pull the mouse back to keep the reticle on target. Seems a tad unnatural atm. Imho it should LOOK convincing and FEEL right.

You dotn have to do it all the time,,,just selcst single fire and go prone. No more precise full auto spray on the walk at 50 meters, CQC will be redefined in OA ;)

[galzohar 31]

It's kinda hard to tell which is better. Having to re-aim is good, but having the weapon just "stay up" is weird. In any way the recoil in OA is much much better than the vanilla recoil, and in fact needs to be toned up, especially for high-recoil weapons (7.62 and up).

Edited July 4, 2010 by galzohar

[arthur666 10]

After putting 1000s of rounds thru many diferent semi-auto rifles in real life, the old recoil model. I understand wanting more realism, but remember, we're aiming with a mouse, not a weapon. After a few shots, my mouse has creeped to the edge of my desk. Like others have said, when firing a rifle, you automatically bring it back down after each shot. After I bring it back down in RL, then I re-aim. Sometimes I bring it down too far, sometimes not enough, and often to the right or left of where i was aiming. For sake of making it realistic, having it not pointing at the exact same spot after a shot, a little randomly, seems to be the best option. An unsupported bolt-action rifle could obviously be further off original aim after a shot than say, a 5.56mm SCAR or an MP5.

I find the 71900 recoil model almost unplayable. Just don't make it up-up-up and it will be fine. And give the AI the same handicap. I'll be happy

Edited July 4, 2010 by arthur666

[Wolfstriked 11]

Repeat post deleted.....

Edited July 4, 2010 by Wolfstriked

[TangoRomeo 10]

but remember, we're aiming with a mouse, not a weapon.

yepp, it will always require a good amount of abstraction from the player .. unless using lightgun peripherals with some sort of physical feedback based on RL calculus. For me, it´s more along the lines of being either difficult or easy, than a matter of realistic and unrealistic. The old system was just too easy, especially on full auto, even more so than in remotely comparable games.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Wonder why BIS didnt use the results of ballistic pendulum calculation for each weapon in A2/OA and add them into weapon/gun config? Or is it too simple to use these results as base for the direction the weapon ends up? :confused:

[ahmedjbh 0]

After planning with the new beta, then going back to vanilla, I prefer the new recoil.

[Wolfstriked 11]

I think there is a wee bit of exaggerating going on here.Take a weapon and with crosshair showing and on full auto spray a whole clip.I move my mouse a max one inch spraying a whole clip.

Whats great about this recoil is that when you anticipate and move the mouse down right when you fire the actual mouse movement can vary so that sometimes you end up below initial,sometimes to left or right and sometimes above.Feels very real to me.

[rübe 127]

After the first impression wasn't so bad, I've come to rather hate it like it's in the new beta patch. It's quite tedious now, though maybe I should tweak the mousesensitivity a bit...

Subsequent shots in A2 were fun (and maybe too easy). In OA beta this isn't the case anymore. It's rather annoying. And what's worse is this: the AI manages to shot in much shorter intervals but still with good aim, than I am now able to.

[kabong 1]

Why not give us our choice of recoil models by making it selectable under Game Options, Difficulty?

[Wolfstriked 11]

Would maybe just the first shot not returning work?

Just suggesting for people that do not like it.I like it the way it is and the weapons just need some fine tuning for effect.

[Drumheller 19]

Absolutely the old way.

Managing recoil on a rifle IRL is vastly different from trying to manage it with a mouse. When shooting a gun IRL your muscle memory kicks in after each shot and you bring the sights back on line automatically. The old version already compensates for full auto fire by making your rounds go off target and having to adjust if you want to hit something, but has your character automatically adjust the rifle back to where it was when you started after you stop firing.

If anything make the sights return almost exactly to where they started but maybe a little off to simulate muscle memory, but in no way should recoil make the gun jump so far off target and just stay there.

[cross 1]

On the other hand, I believe the new recoil system is to prolong the firefights. With OA, there is hardly any cover outside cities thus the acog becomes a sniper rifle.

The effects of recoil is less when between around 50-75 mtrs.

New recoil system forces you to move into a closer/better position so that you have a bigger target. Shooting at targets in the distance, especially moving ones (they do evading movesi zig zagging etc) are harder now.

Yoıu get used to it though..no more standing and shooting moving targets 300-400 mtrs away.

BUt yes I'd prefer a recoil somewhere in between.

[ast65 10]

With the beta- recoil its a single shot- only- shooter. Firing fast subsequent shots is absolute useless now while in ArmA2 twas fun.

So yes, tone it down a bit and add some randomness.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Why not give us our choice of recoil models by making it selectable under Game Options, Difficulty?

Was already discussed why. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with recruit mode though. But the "playable" modes should be equal and for all, so that online we know what we will be getting.

Yeah, let the heavies in the back (M240s, M2s, vehicles) do the suppression while rest maneuver into "proper" distances to engage. Enemy will be suppressed and have a hard time delivering accurate return fires against our moving squads. When we get close it becomes a nerve wrecking battle on who can deliver the first shots in an accurate enough fashion to cause suppression effects. Lots of shooting. Lots of misses. Hello firefight!!! :D Well, so I hope anyways... Remember, for fire to be effective it is not always the idea of hitting your enemy, but get rounds downrange so he won't be able to fight back properly.

[Alex72 1]

the "playable" modes should be equal and for all

Exactlly. Any other option would be called cheating. :) Different recoil on different difficulty settings i have no problems with.