Polish President dead

[Placebo 29]

People will always have differing opinions in life, however when a situation evolves where it's such a clear national tragedy I think it's highly inappropriate to share an opinion that is offensive to many at such a time, if you have nothing respectful to post, do not post.

[Dwarden 1125]

RIP, sad week twice in two days i'm posting condolences ....

also i feel for Poland's loss of so many important people from military, politics, economy and public life ...

[sas troop 0]

Bronisław Komorowski, who now own all presidential rights for 2 months announced 7 days of mourning.

Eh, fault anyway belongs to plane. Old ramshackle Tupolev from '70...

@Takko - however Kaczyński was rather not popular because of his ultra-rightist ideas and beliefs, he wasn't really so baaaad to wish him death...

[riffleman 20]

Polish prime minister to travel to Russia crash site

Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk said on Saturday that he would travel immediately to Smolensk, western Russia, where Polish president Lech Kaczynski and other elite officials died in a plane crash.

"In a moment I will go to Smolensk, there are Polish prosecutors there already," Tusk said in Warsaw after an emergency cabinet meeting in the wake of the devastating crash.

"There may be another cabinet meeting after I return this evening."

"This kind of dramatic tragedy is unheard of in the modern world," the prime minister added.

Poland's acting head of state declared a week of mourning after the crash Saturday in Russia of a Polish government plane which killed the president and scores of other officials.

"We are united -- there is no (political) left or right -- we are united in national mourning," said Bronislaw Komorowski, Poland's parliamentary speaker who took charge of presidential duties after Kaczynski's death.

Kaczynski and other senior Polish officials died when their plane crashed in thick fog while attempting to land in the western Russian city of Smolensk on Saturday morning.

They were due to attend ceremonies marking the 70th anniversary of the WWII Soviet slaughter of 22,000 Polish officers in the nearby Katyn forest and elsewhere in Russia and Ukraine.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Updated list on most passengers on the plane:

Mr. Lech Kaczynski, Polish President

Mrs. Maria Kaczynska wife of Polish President

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1. Mr Ryszard Kaczorowski, former president of Poland in Exile
2. Mr. Krzysztof Putra Sejm Marshal
3. Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski Sejm Marshal
4. Krystyna Bochenek Deputy Senate
5. BAHR Jerzy Ambassador of the Russian Federation
6. Mr. Wladyslaw STASIAK Chief Presidential Chancellery
7. Mr. Aleksander Szczyglo Head of National Security
8. Mr. Jacek Sasin Secretary of State, Deputy Head of the Presidential Chancellery
9. Mr. Paul WYPYCH Secretary of State in the President's Chancellery
10. Mariusz Handzlik Undersecretary of State in the Chancellery of the President
11. Mr. Andrzej Kremer, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs
12. Mr. Stanislaw Komorowski, Undersecretary of State in the Defence
13. Mr. Tomasz Merta Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Culture
14. Gen. Francis Gagor Chief of General Staff of Polish Army
15. Mr Andrew CARRIER Secretary ROPWiM
16. Mr. Maciej Plazynski President of the Association "Polish Community"
17. Mariusz KAZANA MFA Diplomatic Protocol Director


PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVES RP

1. Mr. Leszek Deptula deputy to the Sejm
2. Mr. Gregory Dolniak deputy to the Sejm
3. Ms. Grazyna Gesicka deputy to the Sejm
4. Mr. Przemyslaw Gosiewski deputy to the Sejm
5. Mr. Sebastian KARPINIUK deputy to the Sejm
6. Ms. Izabela Jaruga - Nowacka Member of Parliament of the Republic of Poland
7. Mr. Zbigniew Wassermann deputy to the Sejm
8. Ms. Alexander Natallia - WORLD Member of the Sejm
10. Mr. Arkadiusz Rybicki deputy to the Sejm
11. Jolanta Szymanek - Deresz Member of the Sejm
12. Wieslaw WATER deputy to the Sejm
13. Mr. Edward Wojtas deputy to the Sejm
14. Janina FETLINSKA Senator RP
15. Mr. Stanislaw ZAJAC Senator RP


ACCOMPANYING PERSONS


1. Mr. Janusz Kochanowski Ombudsman Citizen Laws
2. Mr Skawomir Skrzypek, President of the Polish National Bank
3. Janusz Kurtyka President of the Institute of National Remembrance
4. Janusz Krupski Director of the Office for War Veterans and Repressed Persons


REPRESENTATIVES Churches and Religious Affairs

1. Tadeusz Ploski Ordinary of the Polish Army
2. Miron Chodakowski Orthodox Ordinary Polish Army
3. Adam PILCH Ewangelickie Duszpasterstwo Polowe 
4. Col. Adam Pilch Evangelical Chaplaincy 
5. Lt. Col. John OSINSKI Ordinariate of the Polish Army


Katyn Families REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER ASSOCIATIONS

1. Mr. Edward Duchnowski Secretary General of Association of Siberian Deportees
2. Ks. Fr. Monsignor Bronislaw Gostomski
3. Ks. Fr. Parafiada Association President Joseph Joniec Parafiada
4. Ks. Fr. Zdzislaw KING Chaplain Warsaw Katyn Families 1987-2007
5. Ks. Fr. Chaplain Andrew Kwasnik Federation of Katyn Families
6. Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI
7. Bozena Lojek President of the Polish Foundation for Katyn
8. Mr. Stefan Melaka Katyn Committee Chairman
9. Mr. Stanislaw Mikke Vice ROPWiM
10. Mrs. Bronislaw Orawiec - Löffler
11. Ms. Catherine Piskorska
12. Mr Andrew SARIUSZ - SKAPSKI President Federation of Katyn Families
13. Mr Wojciech SEWERYN
14. Mr. Leszek Solski
15. Ms. Teresa Walewska - PRZYJALKOWSKA Foundation "Golgotha of the East"
16. Ms. Gabriela Zych
17. Ewa Bakowska granddaughter of Brig. Mieczyslaw Smorawinski
18. Mrs. Maria Borowska
19. Mr. Bartosz BOROWSKI
20. Mr. Dariusz MALINOWSKI


REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES RP

1. Gen. Gen. Bronislaw KWIATKOWSKI Operational Commander of Polish Armed Forces
2. Gen. broni pil. Gen. pil. Andrew Blasik Polish Air Force Commander
3. Gen. dyw. Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz BUK Commander of Land Forces of Poland
4. Gen. dyw. Maj.-Gen. Wlodzimierz POTASINSKI Polish Special Forces Commander
5. Andrzej KARWETA Dowódca Marynarki Wojennej RP Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta Commander Navy
6. Gen. bryg. Brig. Kazimierz GILARSKI Commander Training Centre Warsaw

[sudayev 27]

Thank you guys for any support. This whole thing was so striking. Same shock like on 9.11.

As you see on the list. Massive blow for the Army. Chiefs of key military branches died as well. This time, will be the time of second in command including the President. No Imagine such situation in your countries, people you hear about daily are no more. Such incidents do not occur even during the time of war.The only time, I remember in 2004 when the Macedonian president crashed somewhere in the mountains and he and his aides died due to this.

A tremendous sacrifice has been made with all those people involved. This catastrophe will bring both Polish and Russian people together. As our relationships were slightly tense over some foreign politics issues, but both countries were trying to overhaul it and improve.

Visit of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to Katyn was one such gestures towards Polish - Russian conciliation. Later on 8t of May presidant Kaczynski has been invited to Moscow for Victory Day celebrations on the Red Square. Putin also said that will do his best to deal with the tragedy of both nations. Such tragedy always brings people together, no matter what kind of options they were representing. President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev announced 12th of April as national day of mourning in Russia.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Sudayev

[Litos 10]

I was really sad and shocked when I heard this. I can't believe they just lost their whole upper tier of government in a single plane crash. That's just awful... I hope things work out for Poland. :'(

[W0lle 1050]

They were on the way to Katyn where they wanted to remember the polish elite which was murdered there 70 years ago. And now again the polish elite was killed.

What a horrible tragedy for poland this is. My condolences to Poland, the polish people here and the relatives of the victims. :(

Please, refrain from any political discussions here. This is not the time nor the place for this. This goes especially for Takko!

[VanhA-ICON 11]

My condolences as well. What a blow to the country it must be.

[lecholas 2]

It's really hard to believe this tragedy is true. As Wolle said they were on their way to honour the members of the Polish elite whow were executed in Katyn. And on the plane there were a few members of the families of the people who were executed there . They died on their way to give the respect to their ancestors.

Let them rest in pace.

[sas troop 0]

Well, actually most people behaves as they are not sure if that happened. Its so shocking that people cant believe it!

To be honest, when family woke me up at 10 am to show me the news, I answered "No shit!" and I turned the other side...

I cant find any other historical situation like this, when so many great and well-known people dies in one moment.

[spooky lynx 73]

My condolences to all Poles. That was severe strike. R.I.P. all who died.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

What does this mean for the rest of the world?

[jakerod 254]

Rest in peace to all of those who died. A very sad day for the world.

[guziczek101 11]

Great loss for our country, cursed place which already took a lot of good people continue to collect their harvest unpleasant event. May they rest in peace.sorry for my bad english but this is hard to write on this moment

[maturin 12]

Sometimes it is amazing just how hard a punch fate can muster. This must be a staggering blow on so many levels. Condolences.

[icebreakr 3157]

... moje kondolencje.

[Thunderbird 0]

What a tragedy...

To say the least.

Rest in Peace

[SWT_Janowich 10]

I think the pilot was pressured like in 2008!

[topas 1]

I think the pilot was pressured like in 2008!

It seems to be the most beliavable conclusion...

Captain of the Polish Airforce who piloted the aircraft is said to have been an experienced one; especially with this particular model.. but what the hell.. any other pilot, acustommed to fly another type of aircraft would not ignore the conditions he had to face during this landing attempt (!)

Making such a choice - clearly against the recommendations of the airdrome crew at Smolensk - may only lead to the above quoted conclusion... or suicide at your own will

Some media here already try to pursue this avenue but does anyone sriously believe this will be ever confired?

Pilots who flew the presidential Tupolevs deny comments on that and have one diplomatic response in their repository: "Captain's choice is of the highest weight; despite outside suggestions or pressure"......

Edited April 10, 2010 by topas

[vilas 477]

What does this mean for the rest of the world?

first of all big tragedy, for me too, cause i deeply voted and supported this President and his political option (versus liberals, pro-social, pro-high sentences)

for Poland it is tragedy cause heads of opposition gone

and in democracy there must be left and right wing

left wing observes and controls right wing (when in power)

and vice versa

now one political option has all

what does it mean to world ?

exactly nothing, cause this president was very patriotic, not too compliant to others if it hurts our interest (opposite to others who cared too much about others but not about our own interest)

it is tragedy for "patriotic" Poles, but for those who are "for the rich, for the corporations, for the big business" it is "hoorah" (even if they act like they are crying today )

this was conservative president and his trusted people

shame that this is first my post after month break, really shame, cause i would like to write something other and positive

i really would like to write something positive

first of all Russian President and Prime Minister both acted very friendly and very kind

in TV i seen very very heart moving people in Moscow and other cities putting flowers near embassy

Katyn was symbol of dividing 2 Slavic nations, history turned near Katyn again

i hope more people seen today's reaction of Russia which was very very friendly

life is ironic

politicians lie to us, cheat us (people) in all countries, now we cry over politicians

Polish-Russian relations are also function of politicians

i hope today people noticed how friendly Russian gov. was and Russian TV and etc. which is very charming cause President flew to place which was our scar in relations

i hope people will notice it and remind it more than false cries of politicians who yesterday spat on President, Wasserman , Kurtyka (President of Historical Research institution that chase ex-commie crimes and was very very very criticized by liberals ) and other PiS members and patriotic activists

yesterday they spat, today they cry tears like yesterday never happened

in week will be jumping happy "we have all institutions for us" and they will be free of people who control and look at their hands

many may not like president's and others point of view, but in democracy there must be opposition (even if not political correct and not too polite towards others, but telling "truth" requires strong reactions and strong words)

today even i felt to cry , which not even happened when uncle or other relative person died , atmosphere in country is so sad that even men cry on streets

even father of my girl put on tie , which is very unusual for him

i respect Kaczynski because he had his own point of view, he was saying things in important things no matter if it will be seen polite or not by others

"truth, honor" was on first place, no matter how others will see it

he was not changing ideas, not waving like flag on the wind, he was man, real man, even if some pathetic politicians called him "small"

Edited April 10, 2010 by vilas

[=FSI=Gen.Nembo 10]

Condoglianze

[kuIoodporny 45]

he was not changing ideas, not waving like flag on the wind, he was man, real man, even if some pathetic politicians called him "small"

+1 to Vilas posting, very true.

President Kaczynski was usually shown in top-down or shortened perspective ("cut below knees", between portrait and full size), beign laughtered at with no apparent reason - he always faced very humiliating and unfair behaviour of mass media, despite of his modesty and devotion to his duty.

The positive outcome is that the world is now aware of what happened in Katyn. Question is, was it worth the price.

[DiFool 0]

I like to say my condolences to the families of the killed crew members and passengers as well as to the whole Polish people! Rest in peace!

[vilas 477]

+1 to Vilas posting, very true.

President Kaczynski was usually shown in top-down or shortened perspective ("cut below knees", between portrait and full size), beign laughtered at with no apparent reason - he always faced very humiliating and unfair behaviour of mass media, despite of his modesty and devotion to his duty.

The positive outcome is that the world is now aware of what happened in Katyn. Question is, was it worth the price.

because he took care about usual people, not only about the rich - like rest of politicians

to understand why many people cry after him, people from abroad must realize that in my country there is no real "left-wing" party (economical left wing) except PiS

other parties, politicians are pro-rich, corrupted, corporationists (i say about "corporations" of lawyers for example, when there is "immunity" and you can't touch judge who commit crime for example)

Kaczynski party although "patriotic" "Christian" in fact is Polish "Christian-Socialists" and thats why many people feel sorrow now too

even if someone disagree with his /their political point of view, than i think that politicians who says the same for many years, not waving like a flag (which do other politicians to stay in power) - deserves respect

other politicians are in most cases liars, waving flags (for example some changed "point of view" for 180 degrees when situation changed "only to be in rule, parliament and live on peoples' taxes" ), 50% of people not vote cause they feel they do not have party to vote (or politicians who deserve those voices are not welcome by media)

Kaczynski was defaced by media (mostly those pro-rich owned by business) by politicians of one party famous of corruption / bribe scandals

Polish political situation is very complicated

a lot of bribe scandals, a lot of criminals in parliament , "immunity" of untouchable lawyer corporations , corrupted courts

politicians like PiS, like Kaczynski try to change our internal situation even against interests of bribe-parties or liars (who changed 4 parties for example, just to be on top position)

now they "cry" in TV, but inside they must be laughing and say to "forget about past" - what a hypocrisy :/

i hope this death will not put Poland to hands of one party famous of last bribe scandals (but supported by business, not by usual poor people)

Kaczynski had his strong, not changed from 40 years point of view, i respect him for keeping the same point of view and not being waving flag

you may not like him, but he was sincere < which is very very rare among politicians

you may agree with his ideas, may disagree , but he deserve respect for being sincere and honest < for this reasons he was so hated by "some others" politicians , who never were sincere, never were honest , who just wanted to get power and 10-20 000 PLN money for being parliament member + immunity to drive car drunk

i hope political balance (between economical right-wing and left-wing) won't be destroyed by this death for too long

50% of people don't vote, cause they see noone trust-worthy

i hope now it won't be 70% (believe me, sometimes there is no person to be voted, sometimes you choose between "bad" and "worse" ,

we often vote "against X, not pro Y",

but lack of social-democratic party in Poland (from act, not from name of party) - like you have on west - is not point of this topic)

he was put into mud by media when he was alive, not they make hero of him, now we see hypocrisy in TV never seen before, but people remember, they rang to TV studio and call names journalists, yesterday one TV station had to cease taking phones from people, cause they were so much criticized by people

yesterday usual people shown themselves , thats why so many flowers, candles and tears were present

yesterday was not day of marketing of tall-handsome liars, i hope people will wake up to see whom they lost in politics - a honest and sincere man who would keep his promises (not like other politicians who say A, do B)

Question is, was it worth the price.

being on time, being not late and landing there was not worthy

cause we lost chance for political balance

of course our foreign politics will be now more ass licking (like our other politicians do)

our internal balance will be broken (do you see anyone trust worthy for votes ? or do you see people like Giertych who twisted 180 degrees just to be in politics again and to have money from being parliament member )

only if Nation will notice how friendly Medvedev and Putin acted - and if Poles will change their attitude to Russia - i will say was worthy

we live here because of geography, we must have friends there , not wait if hand behind Ocean will pat us for sending our boys for their oil), our culture is Christian (Pope John Paul 2 said "meter of humanity is how you treat weak and poor"), not money-profit-god, our culture is Slavian, not McHollywood

our nations have beauty literature that makes brain think (Dostoyevsky, Sienkiewicz, Prus, Bulhakov, and others), not Rambo, Tom and Jerry and Gangsta-Rap (sorry if i am mistaken, but only this i see from other side from TV oppose to "Lalka" "Zbrodnia i Kara" "Quo Vadis")

tv is washing our brains with sit-com, with quiz-shows - they not give movies adaptation of literature which makes brain work ,

i hope this will close Polish to Russians , than it will be worthy

we - Poles must realize, Georgian Stalin, Pole Dzierzynski - killed more Russians than Poles, Katyn is scar, let it heal now

Stalin in 1938 killed even Polish communist, Stalin was cyco, he killed 30 milions USSR citizens , we must remember about this when say about Katyn

Russians shown yesterday big friendship , we must notice it

Edited April 11, 2010 by vilas