FP : DR - News & Discussion

[ManDay 0]

I disagree. Firstly, if I'm not mistaken, it wasn't Mr. Lindrop himself who claimed to have been memeber of the team.

For the 100th time: Mr. Lindrop claimed to was part of the staff with OFP when writing his Curriculum Vitae, as Ohara has posted herein. That's it, nothing more to say about it.

You are talking about that "misformatted" copy & paste piece of text, submitted three pages ago? Well, my thoughts on that are:

1.) It's absolutly horrible to read.

2.) 99% of it are totally irrelevant to the issue (just one single line mentions OFP and you quote 10 page? No comment on this)

3.) The only thing that stands written there is that..

Read well - the following lines are what all this is based upon

Quote[/b] ]October 2000 – May 2001 ( 8 months)

Independent Projects: Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis

That's all. It's a just CV! If you hung people for overstating matters in there CV, I bet you would have had to hang yourself! This is what I mean. There are people here stoking hate and conspiracy - and that's just sad.

Raphier: I'm sure noone can be sure whether or whether he was not involved in the making of OFP. Even with just giving feedback to the actual developers!

As I tried to convey by correcting your metapher, there is no evil in having claimed that.

Even if he was absolutly NOT involved, what's the matter with one falsely claiming, that he did Beta-Testing? It's not correct, but is it worth hanging that one? Yes?

Just one more edit to more clearly convey my vantage point:

If HE had explictily claimed elsewhere than in his CV that he had held a leading position in the making of OFP and thereby had great responsibility, I would have codemned him for that.

But as it is, he never intended to do anyone any bad - nor steal anyone's honor whatsoever. He (or PR) overstated things to make him look better (or OFP2) but to no one's harm.

[hoot 0]

Point 1.) Is absolutely no point!

Point 2.) What count's is the 1% we all are referring to, so what the heck is important for you to mention 99%?

Point 3.) That's the fact, bingo dude!

A CV shows what you've done in the past, not to write what you are dreaming of to have done in the past! Out on this!

Btw, screaming in forums don't improve your arguments. And as a sidenote: He also stated in an officiall interview in a gamemag that he was member of the crew that has done OFP. Maybe you judge such an behaviour differently, when somebody starts telling others, to have done what you actually did. But on the other hand, that demands that you've already done something valuable. Have ya?

Edit: You say he overstated, but he has not harm anyone? Guess you don't really understand how business works, cause this was "normal" business strategy.

[ManDay 0]

You are taking this personal and you are being inflammatory. I critizised his way of quoting his CV in a way, that only a slim portion of members would read it up to the point where the crucial information stands.

That's little constructive behaviour and only faciliates false conjectures.

In terms of this, the other 99% are merely distracting and deter people from gathering the important facts. It makes it easy for others to intersperse false allegations (or speculations), which again others take for facts.

Yes, and forgive me - I do not intend to do any insult - but will you actually assure, that you have never lied in your life? Even lied to the disadvantage of others? What about your CV, if you ever composed one?

Were YOU completly honest? Have all the people you know always been completely honest?

If the answer is "No", I'm telling you that you are treating him unfairly and causing unreasonably hate.

If you are doing it intentionally, shame on you. If you do not, then read over the past pages and see in what you culminated.

[Baff1 0]

There is nothing wrong with pinning some one down when they are lying to you and shaming them.

Lying to someone for personal financial gain is not OK. It's criminal.

He could get his company in trouble and himself in prison. They need to switch him out for a dedicated PR person who knows what's what.

and try to make it as if codemasters didn't do anything bad.

When Clive said he was part of original team for OFP1, it's like stealing others honor.

Imagine, you made nice artistic picture, and then someone else comes and explains that he drew it, gets a job.

Now some of you might just say it's ok, just for CodeM's sake, but in actual event, would you really just give that person your honor just like that?  ofcourse not, because you were the one who drew it.

it's worse than insult. and it's not a small deal in the industry.

What they did is illegal in their country.

It's a criminal offence.

We call it false advertising.

I love a good lynching!

[hoot 0]

Dude i'm not taking it personal, believe me. Inflammatory? Lol, sry, that's the point where you got disqualified for any further debate on this topic, at least with me. You don't really read what others and you are writing, you just mishmash them to come to such statements.

Edit: So better don't give others hints how to argue, because your style of doing so, seems very suboptimal and agressive.

Quote[/b] ]If you do not, then read over the past pages and see in what you culminated.

If you would have done so, you would have seen, that i've answered to that topic right after that incident was posted here.

[Raptor 10]

It think this debate should stop here.

Both sides polarize themselves more and more and their will no end, because both sides insist on their views and points. In the end the parties must clear up that problem among themselves. So my proposal is to go back to topic of the OFP:DR discussion and if it didn't work, to close the thead until the situation calm down.

There are two new previews.

- Gamespot

- IGN.com

[hoot 0]

Correct, that's why i closed with "That's it, nothing more to say about it." before this skirmish had started. It will be clarified, but not by us! Out.

[ManDay 0]

There is nothing wrong with pinning some one down when they are lying to you and shaming them.

Lying to someone for personal financial gain is not OK. It's criminal.

He could get his company in trouble and himself in prison. They need to switch him out for a dedicated PR person who knows what's what.

No, there is nothing wrong with pinning someone to what they have said. But we have pinned him already. Now, also to satisfy Hoot, let us go through a few comments - cronologically, so you can see how the tension increased - starting where his CV has been quote. I'll thereby mark the milestones of your ermeging conspiracy-theory, if you don't mind. First, the facts (at the end, a summary of what you think you have "concluded" from these facts)

What Lindrop said, factually (according to you):

Quote[/b] ]I modded and developed for OFP

What PR (not Linddrop himself) said:

Quote[/b] ]Mr. Linddrop was part of the original OFP-Team

"Independent Projects: Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis " (NOT: Working on OFP!

"Also, I remember him being in a video where he said he modded/scripted for OFP1, but he certainly didn't work on it!"

"I sure hope those ridiculous lies at least got him a job at some point. Maybe that lie is the cornerstone of his career."

"he is working on a 'independent project named Operation Flashpoint: CWC'" (Do you spot the difference?)

"maybe he also claim he worked on VBS1/VBS2? what else we miss?"

"I wish, no i pray that his lies will lead to a failure of Codemasters with this Product!"

In the meantime, all objective comments (altough somewhat provoking here and there) are easily ignored. Well done, guys.

Now where did we get from Clive, working on a "Indepetendent Projects: OFP"?

After you made up his life, he asserted to have worked on OFP as a lead designer (as stated my many unquoted articles), built up his career on this lie and stole honor from BIS. He also may have claimed to have worked on VBS1 and VBS2."

What is pathetic?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Gentlemen, there are lawyers to sort issues like these. No amount of flaming or arguing will make it any different.

Thread isn't about Codemasters marketing strategies and dirty laundry, so I suggest going back ontopic.

[Baff1 0]

There is nothing wrong with pinning some one down when they are lying to you and shaming them.

Lying to someone for personal financial gain is not OK. It's criminal.

He could get his company in trouble and himself in prison. They need to switch him out for a dedicated PR person who knows what's what.

No, there is nothing wrong with pinning someone to what they have said. But we have pinned him already. Now, also to satisfy Hoot, let us go through a few comments - cronologically, so you can see how the tension increased - starting where his CV has been quote. I'll thereby mark the milestones of your ermeging conspiracy-theory, if you don't mind. First, the facts (at the end, a summary of what you think you have "concluded" from these facts)

What Lindrop said, factually (according to you):

Quote[/b] ]I modded and developed for OFP

What PR (not Linddrop himself) said:

Quote[/b] ]Mr. Linddrop was part of the original OFP-Team

"Independent Projects: Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis " (NOT: Working on OFP!

"Also, I remember him being in a video where he said he modded/scripted for OFP1, but he certainly didn't work on it!"

"I sure hope those ridiculous lies at least got him a job at some point. Maybe that lie is the cornerstone of his career."

"he is working on a 'independent project named Operation Flashpoint: CWC'" (Do you spot the difference?)

"maybe he also claim he worked on VBS1/VBS2? what else we miss?"

"I wish, no i pray that his lies will lead to a failure of Codemasters with this Product!"

In the meantime, all objective comments (altough somewhat provoking here and there) are easily ignored. Well done, guys.

Now where did we get from Clive, working on a "Indepetendent Projects: OFP"?

After you made up his life, he asserted to have worked on OFP as a lead designer (as stated my many unquoted articles), built up his career on this lie and stole honor from BIS. He also may have claimed to have worked on VBS1 and VBS2."

What is pathetic?

No offence mate but I've not said these things. You are misquoting me.

Not only have I not "made up his life", you have just made up mine.

As far as I'm aware no one has pinned him down on the lie.

And yes it may turn out to be one put about by his PR people and not him, but he certainly hasn't made any effort to correct them. They are after all "his PR people" discussing him.

He doesn't actually have to say it himself to be a liar. All he has to do is allow the lie to permeate to participate in that lie.

You can play lawyer to him in his trial by media if you enjoy that role, but a liar is a liar. Doublespeak and nitpicking doesn't change anything. A lie is a lie.

Anyways, thanks for the reply I best shut up about this.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I do not know what it is but this whole thing of calling it OFP2 leaves me with bad taste in the mouth.

I know they own the name but Codemasters never made OFP1 it was developed by BIS.

I think Codmasters need to reconsider using the name OFP.

I am sure many potential buyers will hear the story it will almost certainly be a story in the computer and gaming press.

This kind of thing can destroy a whole brand, any one remember Gerald Ratner saying this?

QuoteWe also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on' date=' all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?" I say, because it's total crap.[/quote']

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Ratner#The_speech

Kind regards walker

Edited August 16, 2009 by walker

[Dwarden 1125]

Manday ask the person who wrote the Eurogamer interview

as far i know he confirmed that he wrote exactly what CL said

Quote[/b] ]

EG:

"One of my personal bugbears is the belief that PC gaming and console gaming have IQ requirements that are different," insists Clive Lindop, the game's senior designer, AI specialist and a veteran of the original Flashpoint team."

if it was typo or misunderstanding it was already removed from the article ...

and now please (last polite demand) stop it discussing here as it's something what people in question and firms in question must resolve inbetween them ...

so continue discussion about OFP:DR as game

[froggyluv 2136]

Well I'm not going to beat a dead horse here so I'll just leave it at CM has really left a bad taste in my mouth and I highly doubt I will support their game from here out.

I just read that Civilians will not be included in their game and I see that as another major flaw. 'Ghost-town' shooters are just so 90's, as civilians are most definitely an immersion booster as well as very much apart of recent military conflicts.

[Deadfast 43]

Can you post the source?

That's indeed silly...

[froggyluv 2136]

"It's allready be said - no Civs" -OFP2 forum moderator.

[max power 21]

OFP2 excitement meter.. plummeting.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Will the Codemasters' brand be damaged by its attempts to copy OFP1?

Kind regards walker

[Lepardi 0]

Hi all

Will the Codemasters' brand be damaged by its attempts to copy OFP1?

Kind regards walker

Copy OFP1? They are copying BF:BC and adding a large environment with a HC mode where bullets are effective.

[Scrub 0]

Same sentiments here, Plaintiff1..  After watching the latest vid (Feb19),  I'm thinking the AI -all hunched over, in 'glob' formation, firing right past one another - is from another engine.  

I believe I found the source Here.

Alternate movement example, same engine

See if you agree

@Walker:  If they do indeed turn the name and the legend arcade, then yes, I believe they are taking a real risk.  This is a new group trying to live in, and increase, the afterglow of another group.  Kinda the same trap as seeking shelter in a bear cave.  Hope they can convince the bear not to return...  After BIs' C.D.F. vid, I'm hearing growling and huffing in the distance .  

[BLSmith2112 0]

I cannot believe this new ego engine/Ofp2 trailer that came out... its getting negative reviews everywhere, by viewers anyway..

I mean the Grass! Cmon the grass... wow 10 feet and it appears.. and holding the gun! The guy is consistently pointing it forward while jogging not in a combat situation?

Wait and see I suppose... I was excited for this game at the start, every day it just keeps going down. You know, they were advertising this "media day" for a long time. They give players 6 screen shots, and a small video - half of which was just an interview. Ok, now is the time for BI to shine bright - but the time is now. Arma fans may have been initially disappointed and left the game, so they turned to OFP2 - now are turned off by it - BI could get them back if they go out there and grab their (and everyone elses) attention.

[bionic 10]

Hi all

Will the Codemasters' brand be damaged by its attempts to copy OFP1?

Kind regards walker

I would drop the name Operation Flashpoint and stay only with Dragon Rising. There is already so much trouble around that name.

If they fail on the game and thats likely they will earn alot of very bad reviews all around the Web. Not only did they try to copy anothers company game concept and failed they also will then have discredited the name of one of the greatest games ever.

Just imaging you are starting a big PR offensive stating u will do the Ãœber-Ferrari2: DR, looks better, feels better , drives better, is 2 times faster than the original, "Independent Project Ferrari Enzo", "Veteran of the Michael Schumacher Team". Now on the Roll Out the whole world is watching you and all you can show is some sort of a crappy Lada Riva copy.

Well you could have called it "Rennpappe" in first place but thats not my business but don´t complain when you have to hide behind the moon for the rest of your life.

[MehMan 0]

crappy Lada Riva copy

making a copy of crap can only make crap. you can't make a crappy copy of a lada riva because the lada riva is crappy to begin with.

[bionic 10]

crappy Lada Riva copy

making a copy of crap can only make crap. you can't make a crappy copy of a lada riva because the lada riva is crappy to begin with.

By Western standarts you are right.

[Maddmatt 1]

"It's allready be said - no Civs" -OFP2 forum moderator.

Well that sucks

[Heatseeker 0]

"It's allready be said - no Civs" -OFP2 forum moderator.

Well that sucks  

Yeah. OPF CWC had 3 ugly men, a tractor, a skoda and that PVS truck.

It will be real crap if that large 220 square KM island is 100% unpopulated, like the population and all the fauna fled to the sea .