ArmA II: Operation Arrowhead discussion thread

[p75 10]

so the only problem is the draw distance of objects right? because AFAIK, real life FLIR just doesnt work like what DR shown to be.

Yes, it is, it can not be seen from several hunderd meters, at least, when you use the apache.

@TimRiceSE

You should learn how to read! It is more advanced, but the way it is implemented in VBS 2 sucks. It only shows up, up close. Sitting in the gunners seat of the Apache in VBS 2, hanging a few hunderd meters away from your target, and your target doesn't pop up as you would expect using Flir. You need to be close! And that sucks. In that sense OFP-DR did it better! Please learn how to read.

The Flir in VBS 2 constantly auto adjusts, it ain't that good, just saying, don't set your hopes too high on this one. If they improve it, the better, but if it stays as in VBS 2, you might be severely disappointed as I was.

That video shows it perfectly, that is close by. Pull that predator a few hunderd meters further and you would see nothing. It truely sucks, at least that was my experience. Talking about VBS 2.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[Colossus 2]

You got a twi link for us for news posting?

Same as my previous post about Twitter, but I'll add the link to the lastest Twitter post. :)

[dm 9]

Yes, it is, it can not be seen from several hunderd meters, at least, when you use the apache.

I wasnt going to get sucked into this, but since you're still spewing this shit, I feel I must say something...

I just spotted, lased and then hit a T-72 at 4573m. Using nothing but the FLIR view from an Apache hovering at 2000 ft.

You should learn how to read! It is more advanced, but the way it is implemented in VBS 2 sucks. It only shows up, up close. Sitting in the gunners seat of the Apache in VBS 2, hanging a few hunderd meters away from your target, and your target doesn't pop up as you would expect using Flir. You need to be close! And that sucks. In that sense OFP-DR did it better! Please learn how to read.

The Flir in VBS 2 constantly auto adjusts, it ain't that good, just saying, don't set your hopes too high on this one. If they improve it, the better, but if it stays as in VBS 2, you might be severely disappointed as I was.

That video shows it perfectly, that is close by. Pull that predator a few hunderd meters further and you would see nothing. It truely sucks, at least that was my experience, it also constantly auto-adjusts. Talking about VBS 2.

Thermal Imaging is not some uber amazing tool which will highlight all your targets super-duper-bright for you to shoot at.

Have you ever even USED a thermal imager in real life, or are you basing your comments off of armchair general-ism?

Thermal imagers in real life also constantly adjust, they can also be locked to a specific brightness and contrast, much as it can in VBS.

You're only dissapointed because you clearly have never used a real system, and have not experienced its flaws and limitations...

[cm. 10]

Why don't we settle this with some youtube videos of VBS2 FLIR, OFP: DR "FLIR", and real FLIR....

[4 IN 1 0]

Yes, it is, it can not be seen from several hunderd meters, at least, when you use the apache.

The thing I dont understand, is that how is the way that its "un-seen" to you.

Are you saying that the detail of the object surface is unseen or is that the complete model is mission only to pop-up upclose"

[TimRiceSE 10]

I wasnt going to get sucked into this, but since you're still spewing this shit, I feel I must say something...

I just spotted, lased and then hit a T-72 at 4573m. Using nothing but the FLIR view from an Apache hovering at 2000 ft.

Thermal Imaging is not some uber amazing tool which will highlight all your targets super-duper-bright for you to shoot at.

Have you ever even USED a thermal imager in real life, or are you basing your comments off of armchair general-ism?

Thermal imagers in real life also constantly adjust, they can also be locked to a specific brightness and contrast, much as it can in VBS.

You're only dissapointed because you clearly have never used a real system, and have not experienced its flaws and limitations...

Thanks, you said everything that was needed.

[p75 10]

I wasnt going to get sucked into this, but since you're still spewing this shit, I feel I must say something...

I just spotted, lased and then hit a T-72 at 4573m. Using nothing but the FLIR view from an Apache hovering at 2000 ft.

Thermal Imaging is not some uber amazing tool which will highlight all your targets super-duper-bright for you to shoot at.

Have you ever even USED a thermal imager in real life, or are you basing your comments off of armchair general-ism?

Thermal imagers in real life also constantly adjust, they can also be locked to a specific brightness and contrast, much as it can in VBS.

You're only dissapointed because you clearly have never used a real system, and have not experienced its flaws and limitations...

You must have a different kind of VBS 2 then. Because when I auto-hover and look through the flir of the apache gunsight when I know the enemy is several hunder meters away I can't spot them! They don't light up. I'm not talking about using the tab button, which is highly unrealistic, but just by manual scanning. It just sucks. You should be able to see it several hunderd meters away peaking through the gunsight using flir. When I've some time I'll make some shots and throw them up to show what I mean. I was really disappointed by how it is applied in VBS 2. And if that is what we are getting OA, then I'm sorry to say that it ain't what I expected. The fact that OFP-DR has it better implemented, in my view, says enough for me. Yes, the flir in VBS 2 is more realistic, but gameplay wise VBS 2's Flir, not seeing until very close to your target just sucks.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[Alex72 1]

DR's fully lit objects and thats it. No heating barrels, no heat up times and no proper heated areas. And check what DM said again. He used ONLY FLIR to scan for the target and took it out. No mention of flying around tabbing.

[p75 10]

DR's fully lit objects and thats it. No heating barrels, no heat up times and no proper heated areas. And check what DM said again. He used ONLY FLIR to scan for the target and took it out. No mention of flying around tabbing.

At 4 km in VBS 2, that is just BS! Complete BS! I'll upload some images so you all can see it for yourselves.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[mr burns 132]

Might be a LOD issue, easily fixable by higher object settings &/or LOD Mod.

Just guessing, not a VBS2 owner.

[p75 10]

I'll throw up some pictures later today.

---------- Post added at 06:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

Uploading pictures as we speak.

Target is 776 meters away, it is a truck, using FLIR from the apache gunner's seat, pictures taken at 1x, 4x and 16x zoom.

Two things, first of all as you can see in the 1x zoom, alot of shit, which is not heat giving lights up, they are rocks and such.

Secondly as you can see at the 1x zoom at 776 meter, you don't see the target, and if it wasn't for the radar I would never looked further there.

Same applies for 4x zoom. As mentioned above and clearly shown in the picture with 1x zoom, it looks like a rock. And alot of rocks light up.

At 16x zoom it looks like something.

The fact is, you don't scan around at 16x zoom.

The links are below, I uploaded them at full size 1440*900:

1x Zoom:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7468/pictureapachegunnerssea.png

4x Zoom:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7468/pictureapachegunnerssea.png

16x Zoom:

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7468/pictureapachegunnerssea.png

Judge for yourself!

Without radar, you would have never found the truck, it sucks! That is my opinion at least. And as you can see the lightning of all those rocks in 1x zoom doesn't help either. Anyway, don't expect too much!

The zooming level only goes to 16x, the real apache can zoom till 128x. They should be able to adjust those settings, which would improve the quality of course, but as you can see it ain't super.

@DM, you just must have a different VBS 2, as mine sucks as you can see on the pictures.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[Tonci87 163]

Did you try to adjust the Brightnes and contrast?

[p75 10]

Did you try to adjust the Brightnes and contrast?

Yeah, and the Flir is doing that by itself, hence the auto adjust in the lower corner.

[nodunit 397]

So it's hard to spot big woop, helicopters aren't some all seeing all knowing machine of war, they too like anything else require information on their targets to zero in.

Besides, you give Arma 2 DR's DTV (flir my ass) and people will complain, yes a game is about balance but using 'that' system will just throw that off and make helicopters the end all be all.

If you think the targets are easy to spot out of nowhere you need to review more video's of helicopters using them (I'd post some but there is a strict rule about videos with killing).

Hell Arma 2 had it pinned down rather well it was just too fuzzy but everyone wants everything to glimmer and be bright white like DR's, why? That is not real, that is hardly real. If it were that great the mlitary wouldn't be upgrading it.

http://www.lmdtech.com/products/Arrowhead/ArrowheadVideo1.html

Pardon if this sounds rude but it just boils my blood whenever I hear someone say about DR's 'flir' "Hey that's a good looking FLIR, now if only Arma 2 used it" or something to that effect.

Edited January 21, 2010 by NodUnit

[p75 10]

For now it sucks in VBS 2, reality however is that in real life the apache can zoom in 128x and not 16x. So, it would be better when they adjust that.

But have a look at the first picture zoom 1x, every fucking rock is lighting up!!! And it is all over the map. So, if you see something like a rockshape at 4x zoom, you'll think it's a rock. That is my experience.

If they would implement the actual apache's radar system in OA and adjust the zoom levels to more realistic onces, then I guess we have no problem, for now in VBS 2 it sucks. Alot of things light up, which shouldn't.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[Alex72 1]

And still thats VBS2. The OA version works on the newer engine ARMA2 plus maybe improvements over VBS2 additionally.

Well just have to wait and see instead of blowing fuses over something we havent seen yet.

[Tonci87 163]

Maybe you should try to deactivate the Auto adjust and do it by yourself.

[p75 10]

Maybe you should try to deactivate the Auto adjust and do it by yourself.

That is even worse. I tried.

I'm just saying, it ain't all that in VBS 2. And everyone is cheering about it coming to OA. Well, an improved version is very welcome. For now, way to many things light up and you'll find shit by scanning manually. And that would be the fun, not?, hovering several hunderd feet above the ground searching for insurgents in the city, mountains. Let us hope they do a good job, but for now I have a feeling it will be a simple port from VBS 2, but who knows. I was just saying that from a gameplay perspective VBS 2 Flir was really disappointing to me.

[dm 9]

@p75, again, have you ever used a TI system in real life?

You act as if it should light up all the targets like they were christmas trees "hey, here I am, shoot me please!"

Yes VBS has limitations (dumb hot rocks for one) but to complain that DR's TI "sim" is better than VBS really highlights how naieve to real systems you are.

Edit to add: heres the URL to a screenshot of my "different" VBS (its called having a good PC and the right video settings...)

OMG look at the laser range readout top left! :j:

Edited January 21, 2010 by DM

[p75 10]

@p75, again, have you ever used a TI system in real life?

You act as if it should light up all the targets like they were christmas trees "hey, here I am, shoot me please!"

Yes VBS has limitations (dumb hot rocks for one) but to complain that DR's TI "sim" is better than VBS really highlights how naieve to real systems you are.

Edit to add: heres the URL to a screenshot of my "different" VBS (its called having a good PC and the right video settings...)

OMG look at the laser range readout top left! :j:

Video settings are okay overhere. PC is fine also. ATI HD4890, and as you own VBS 2, you know it lights up alot of shit, it shouldn't. Anyhow, see my pics. Please explain the difference. I'm hovering quite low in my pictures, I'll try it at your height.

Edit:I'll start editting my video settings. What are yours set at, DM?

As I stated before, if they improve the zoom rate and fix some aspects, it might get somewhere, but for now I'm afraid of a simple VBS 2 port, which by itself is no good news.

Edited January 21, 2010 by p75

[Tonci87 163]

Yes thats how a Flir should look like. It doesnt light up everything, only warm objects.

You can see it pretey good here. He is aiming at a Tank, at the left you can see some Infantry

[p75 10]

Yes thats how a Flir should look like. It doesnt light up everything, only warm objects.

You can see it pretey good here. He is aiming at a Tank, at the left you can see some Infantry

For the life of jesus, I don't get it like that. Good pc here. I get what I posted. Maybe DM uses special video settings.

DM, what is your gamma and brightness set at? Can you make a snapshot of your settings?

[That guy Over there 10]

Can't Wait for Operation Arrowhead

Question:

will there be a Ruck System introduced in OA?

[Alex72 1]

Yes there seems to be a ruck system. They showed some WIP of it in a video before. They were working on getting AI's to be able to pick up backpacks (you telling them). And apparently you should be able to have a backpacked buddy/AI cover you while you get stuff from his backpack (open others backpacks while on).

[Steakslim 1]

Can't Wait for Operation Arrowhead

Question:

will there be a Ruck System introduced in OA?

From videos on CzechTV and from that small convention meeting in that classroom and I think from the pdf off the arrowhead page it's mentioned that there is some kind of backpack system in the works.