A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[cas 41]

I know that most people in the "Realism Unit" community would love to be able to bring the bodies of their fallen comrades back to base or back home for a proper burial. The ability to load your dead into a truck or APC or ambulance would be awesome.

It would make teams stick together and give you some other challenges than just shooting...

[Evil_Echo 11]

any chance to include some aussie units?

ACE aims to improve gameplay into a more realistic combat sim, basing it on the original content, not replacement packs for a spesfic nation.

...

One goal of ACE2 is to make it easier for others to make ACE2 compatable addons and mods. ACEX is our own case of that - where the stuff not directly tied to the ACE2 core lives ( e.g. the small-arms, APCs, helos, jets, etc ).

People wishing to make ACE2-compatible nationality packs can certainly contact us. We already have one major dev working with us right now.

[cas 41]

Some interesting facts related to casualetys from an article about operation iraqi freedom (invasion):

"During this phase of operations, patient movement by air was swift and critical patients typically received surgical care at an FRSS within 30 minutes after injury."

WOW that's hard to archive in peacetime!

"During OIF I, 85.8% of casualties in the I MEF area of responsibility were classified as WIA"

KIA only 13,5% (including those dying on transport)

"Historically, the KIA rates in major conflicts have been approximately 20%. Death on the battlefield is most commonly due to penetrating wounds to the head (37%), chest (24%), abdomen (9%), and extremity (3%). One-half of these deaths are secondary to exsanguinating hemorrhage and 10% to 20% of such deaths are from extremity wounds."

Here the link for further reading:

http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/143/6/564

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.

And don't start to say it would not be fun because we never had the chance to try it out!

[Alex72 1]

Would be nice to see others studios integrating the ACE2 units list, as we have now in the Project Reality, "Community Factions" that are included in the game. FDF, BW, AUS, UFK, GROM\Polish, PLA,RACS,FFAA etc... as separated downloable packs, fully compatibile with each other.

Would be a dream...

Its already happening. Like said ACE2 makes it possible to create your own units etc and get it to work with ACEX. I have been beta testing a "little" *ahem* something that is being intergrated. :ok:

ACE team made ACE2 very modern and we thank them big time for that. :)

Alex

[An Fiach 10]

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.

Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

[Smurf 12]

Its already happening. Like said ACE2 makes it possible to create your own units etc and get it to work with ACEX. I have been beta testing a "little" *ahem* something that is being intergrated. :ok:

ACE team made ACE2 very modern and we thank them big time for that. :)

Alex

Fromz's OHMOD integrated in Ace2 its a known fact. Anything besides that will be a great surprise. :eek:

We must be thankful also to everybody that donated\made "minor" stuff, like single units\objects and weapons. Everything so far seems to be high quality stuff.

Looking forward to the release, and, if its release before holidays, I expect that the game don´t f***-up my final exams\tests. :p

Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

I think that is a sequence to this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1491903&postcount=1330

And other after it (before the bullets discussion).

Edited November 21, 2009 by Smurf

[PogMoThoin 10]

I know its out when its ready but is there any sort of time-frame for the first release? Any chance it'll be out before christmas or are we talking about next year?

[cas 41]

Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

Sorry I wanted to avoid repeating myself.

In all computer games today, including ARMA, you have an unrealistic handling of casualties. In Games your men either die instantly and are ignored and left behind for the rest of the battle, or they are injured, get completely "healed" on scene and continue to fight as if nothing happened.

Compare this to reality: Only few casualties die instantly (KIA meaning killed on battlefield or enroot to a doctor). Close to all casualties are evacuated as fast as possible to medical facility (including the dead). In my literature example the average time for a critical wounded to receive surgical care (at a field hospital) was only 30min. This includes the time it takes to get the casualty out of the danger zone, stabilise him, transport and admission to the hospital.

Handling of the casualties is an important thing for the progress of an operation. You need resources that cannot be used for fighting at the same time and you have to grant safety for the evacuation.

I don't write this as a BIS suggestion because I doubt BIS would risk to implement this kind of casualty handling because it has never before been done. I still have high hopes in the ACE team because of the big achievements they already did for the sake of a more realistic game play.

The task is:

1. Increase the number of WIA (wounded in action) to like 90%

2. WIA are either incapacitated or get a handicap

3. Handicaps can be bad aim, no stand etc. (we already have most of them in the game or in ACE1)

4. Medics only stabilise (they do not heal!)

5. Make it possible to transport all WIA and KIA (including those that can not walk) with other soldiers and in vehicles.

6. Because of the join in progress option it is possible to leave your WIA and rejoin as a new soldier.

In an ARMA mission this would mean after being hit you can continue to fight until you are incapacitated (instantly or because of blood loss).

As soon as you are out of trouble you would deliver your character to MEDEVAC and re spawn as a new soldier. In an "overrun" scenario you would continue to fight because there is no better option. Medics are used to stabilise wounded soldiers and keep the rate of soldiers KIA low. They could also perform triage and organize MEDEVAC.

[maturin 12]

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.

I think I get wounded in Arma about ten times for every death. (If it's less, it's because of all the SP recklessness). I just unrealistically ignore the injuries or get them whisked away by a medic.

And our troops in Iraq are rarely in situations that compare to ridiculously dangerous Chernarus, outnumbered and without support.

[Rhodesy77 11]

thats all well and good if you want that, and if you have a large player base in that mission... here in aus our arma2 player base isnt what it is in the states, so its hard for us to get 40+ people in for one organised personal mission. which is what you would need to have a strong fighting force on the ground + transport/airsupport people doing their jobs, i think their should atleast be an option between something like the old ACE way, and the super duper uber realistic casuality system.

[TOTAL22 0]

thats all well and good if you want that, and if you have a large player base in that mission... here in aus our arma2 player base isnt what it is in the states, so its hard for us to get 40+ people in for one organised personal mission. which is what you would need to have a strong fighting force on the ground + transport/airsupport people doing their jobs, i think their should atleast be an option between something like the old ACE way, and the super duper uber realistic casuality system.

Perhaps, this can be chosen by the mission maker by placing a new ''Realistic Casualty System'' module object in the map or not.

Just like how the vanilla wound system can be chosen to be used or not by placing the module object or not.

This way, the scripts can be developed by ACE team if they choose to and mission makers can choose if they want to use the set of scripts by simply placing specific objects in their missions.

Edited November 22, 2009 by TOTAL22

[Alex72 1]

@Smurfbr

It was obviously not clear to everyone that ACEX will work this way since people thaught it would be great if it could be possible.

[An Fiach 10]

Sorry I wanted to avoid repeating myself.

In all computer games today, including ARMA, you have an unrealistic handling of casualties. In Games your men either die instantly and are ignored and left behind for the rest of the battle, or they are injured, get completely "healed" on scene and continue to fight as if nothing happened.

Compare this to reality: Only few casualties die instantly (KIA meaning killed on battlefield or enroot to a doctor). Close to all casualties are evacuated as fast as possible to medical facility (including the dead). In my literature example the average time for a critical wounded to receive surgical care (at a field hospital) was only 30min. This includes the time it takes to get the casualty out of the danger zone, stabilise him, transport and admission to the hospital.

Handling of the casualties is an important thing for the progress of an operation. You need resources that cannot be used for fighting at the same time and you have to grant safety for the evacuation.

I don't write this as a BIS suggestion because I doubt BIS would risk to implement this kind of casualty handling because it has never before been done. I still have high hopes in the ACE team because of the big achievements they already did for the sake of a more realistic game play.

The task is:

1. Increase the number of WIA (wounded in action) to like 90%

2. WIA are either incapacitated or get a handicap

3. Handicaps can be bad aim, no stand etc. (we already have most of them in the game or in ACE1)

4. Medics only stabilise (they do not heal!)

5. Make it possible to transport all WIA and KIA (including those that can not walk) with other soldiers and in vehicles.

6. Because of the join in progress option it is possible to leave your WIA and rejoin as a new soldier.

In an ARMA mission this would mean after being hit you can continue to fight until you are incapacitated (instantly or because of blood loss).

As soon as you are out of trouble you would deliver your character to MEDEVAC and re spawn as a new soldier. In an "overrun" scenario you would continue to fight because there is no better option. Medics are used to stabilise wounded soldiers and keep the rate of soldiers KIA low. They could also perform triage and organize MEDEVAC.

Ah, I understand now, thank you. Yes that could be great fun, but I wouldn't label it as wrong to omit such features, simply a conscious design choice made to maximize the free time of players, thus boosting revenues for the developers.

Have to be careful with such studies as they tend not to include factors that make a huge impact on the results. I didn't read every word so I may have missed things but I saw no mention of shock, which is a major factor in the survival of wounded persons. The higher survival rates now as compared to past conflicts can be directly attributed to such training programs as the Army's Combat Life Saver program which ensures that all soldiers can provide immediate care, stabilizing them before transport. They also erroneously try to compare the results from completely different combat environments . Interesting nonetheless.

[fireship4 0]

#EDIT#: I forgot to clarify what the below actually is: it is the most recent ARMA2 beta changelog with some possibly relevant additions highlighted. Thanks sparks50.

[60260] Fixed: AI soldiers moving in Safe/Aware could sometimes be stuck near a bush or other objects.

[60234] New: Scripting function enableAIFeature to disable new AI features when old behaviour is required.

[60220] Improved: AI covering units tend to stay close to each other.

[60155] Fixed: MultiPlayer client crash caused by certain custom sound

[60129] Fixed: AI subordinates now move faster (use less cover) to catch up when leader is way ahead of them.

[60102] Fixed: AI subordinates should now respect formation more when moving in combat.

[60101] Fixed: Group leader was often running far ahead alone in combat.

[60092] Fixed: AI leader did not wait for a player to cover him when moving in combat.

[60090] Fixed: Improved vehicles and motorcycles driving.

[60068] New: Alt-Enter can be used to switch window/fullscreen while paused.

[60015] New: Execute action with LMB can be unmapped.

[60013] Fixed: Possible freeze under Vista/Win7 when Alt-Tabing out of the game during progress screen.

[59999] Fixed: Player is no more target when commanding in external view.

[59988] New: Windowed/Fullscreen can now be switched ingame (in Video options).

[59924] Fixed: More 32b overflows caused by 8 GB RAM + large VRAM.

[59906] Fixed: Most vehicle gunners did not provide suppressive fire.

[59899] Fixed: AI did not use suppressive fire against enemies seen while holding fire.

[59898] Fixed: Spatial explosions sounds

[59884] Fixed: Suppress in the commanding menu did nothing.

[59875] New: Suppressive fire against known enemies can be scripted using unit suppressFor time.

[59873] Fixed: After spawning new types of entities via script, game could randomly freeze or crash.

[59872] Fixed: Airplane, helicopter, car and ship control was lost while map was active.

[59808] Fixed: DOF in 3D scope view

[59741] Analogue throttle working for helicopters as well.

[59736] Fixed: Startup sounds are not spatial and stick to audio channels

[59715] Covering soldier in grass ("Grass layer")

[59691] Improved: Small hit be ignored by hitpoints (configurable by minimalHit)

[59668] Improved: Hitpoint can pass only a part of the hit to the total damage (passthrough setting no longer ignored).

[59446] New: IK weapon animations are now blending with primary animations.

[59351] Fixed: VoN direct speaking distance fade out

[59318] Fixed: support the highest Matrox TrippleHead2Go resolutions

[59279] Fixed: FPS on Dedicated server is not affected by server window manipulation (such as move or scroll).

[59088] Mouse lag can caused by GPU render ahead buffer be limited using GPU_MaxFramesAhead=N in ArmA2.cfg.

[59047] Fix: When player was a helicopter pilot, the AI gunner sometimes had no weapon selected on mission start

[59030] Fix: Helicopters - when manual fire on, do not allow AI gunner to switch weapons

Edited November 22, 2009 by fireship4
Clarificationzor

[cas 41]

I fully agree that the "no heal" feature should be optional.

I guess the casualties transport feature should work for everybody. (You do not have to use it)

For the original missions "no heal" has to be disabled. But custom missions could be written to work with few human players in MP or in SP. I would love to use such a feature in SP.

The linked article is a scientific work written by the doctors involved:

"Hypothesis: The transition from manoeuvre warfare to insurgency warfare has changed the mechanism and severity of combat wounds treated by US Marine Corps forward surgical units in Iraq."

I do not think the authors neglected any major factors. I picked out the results from the beginning of the war because this environment fits better to the kind of missions we tend to play in ARMA.

[RUDOLF 9]

Is first beta closing?

[manzilla 1]

Wow, you sure like to prod.

[sparks50 0]

Is first beta closing?

The changelog he posted is the BI one for Arma 2, not for the ACE project.

The important thing is what he highlighted in red.

[major woody 11]

I wrote a little aticle in the STI Stryker Pack about passenger seats wich I think i quite relevant here as well since ACE are gonne release Strykers... :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1496948&postcount=37

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

A little something ive been thinking about...

If we cant have REALISTIC sizes of islands for instance..

How can we ask for realistic values of balistics and speed

and such..??

[sparks50 0]

I'm not sure how that at all relates to each other.

[Steakslim 1]

;1497028']A little something ive been thinking about...

If we cant have REALISTIC sizes of islands for instance..

How can we ask for realistic values of balistics and speed

and such..??

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to this thread or not.

[Hvymtal 1251]

143 pages, this is definately going to be the most widely used mod in the history of arma 2, loving what you guys are doing so far, can't wait at all for release

[slatts 1978]

oh look it looks like hes asked nicely this time

[Kristian 47]

oh look it looks like hes asked nicely this time

yeah, I was expecting more like:

"omgz0mg iz out nao?!11 ok0x tellz iz out or nao not??11"

But seriously, this mod will be superb. So if I have understood correctly, Fromz PLA mod will be inclued? and will the strykers come in desert variant too? Also, will there be desert marines? :)